What exactly makes a good unit "good"?

[arvilino]

I'd say a good unit is one that is able to consistently contribute positively to your team relative to the amount of resource investment they require/receive.

[Progenitus]

Right, and if Caineghis is only showing up for one chapter, you can't really use him as often as, say, Shinon who shows up for 15 chapters.

but you will be using caineghis for that one chapter he is in for every single time you play (assuming of course you are playing for efficiency). This makes him "good", not "he may or may not be better than X unit that has more availability than him".

Idk but IMPrime I can't stop watching those girls in your avatar.

welcome to the world of k-pop

Edited April 28, 2012 by Progenitus

[Rehab]

The best possible unit flies, joins before the Prologue even starts, has infinite movement, OHKOs all enemies around with an infinite use weapon, and cannot take any damage. Since there's no such thing, we'll have to settle for whatever comes closest. So like FE10 Haar and FE4 Sigurd.

Joins with an item that protects against bows, mount slayers and (sometimes) their magic weakness, too.

In fact, while we're at it, make their movement the equivalent of warping everywhere, like Nergal when he isn't sandbagging. They'd still have canto, of course.

[Anouleth]

but you will be using caineghis for that one chapter he is in for every single time you play (assuming of course you are playing for efficiency). This makes him "good", not "he may or may not be better than X unit that has more availability than him".

And even if you do, you won't be using him very often. Taking someone like, I don't know, Rolf, who has 15 times as many chapters as Caineghis, you would need to have a probability of using Rolf of less than 7% for him to be ranked below Caineghis, because otherwise he will be used more often on average.

[Renall]

Joins with an item that protects against bows, mount slayers and (sometimes) their magic weakness, too.

In fact, while we're at it, make their movement the equivalent of warping everywhere, like Nergal when he isn't sandbagging. They'd still have canto, of course.

And has 10 Leadership and 5 Movement Stars, even in games that don't have Movement Stars (especially in those games).

[Nook]

A good unit is easy to use and starts strong, with good growths and bases much like Shanen from FE4

[Progenitus]

And even if you do, you won't be using him very often. Taking someone like, I don't know, Rolf, who has 15 times as many chapters as Caineghis, you would need to have a probability of using Rolf of less than 7% for him to be ranked below Caineghis, because otherwise he will be used more often on average.

Fielding Rolf in 1 chapter to do random shitty potshots because you have enough unit slots for everyone anyway =/= fielding Cain in 1 chapter so he can solo the map because he is so much better than a huge majority of your other choices

Edited May 7, 2012 by Progenitus

[Gryz]

A good unit wins over your heart with their looks, charm, and personality so you continue to use them even when logic says they suck.

[Cereal Bawks]

Availability, Growths, Base Stats, MOV, good Prf Weapon, starting weapon level, Class

I never thought Move was that important, considering that there's usually a lot of choke-points.

[Colonel M]

Move is pretty damn important. I only know one person (well, now two including you) that barely regards Movement to be important.

[Cereal Bawks]

Well, I don't think it's not important at all (otherwise I wouldn't be using Swiftsoles/boots, but I just don't think it should be counted as something that makes a unit good. But that's just my opinion.

[The_Purple_Knight]

Move is pretty damn important. I only know one person (well, now two including you) that barely regards Movement to be important.

It's only really important in fe4, otherwise depending on one's playstyle it's not really that important. I personally don't really care; my strategies usual focus on forming choke points and then picking off the enemy units slowly for that reason I favor bulky units like knights and ranged units like snipers a lot more then most players do .

Edited May 8, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Anouleth]

It's only really important in fe4, otherwise depending on one's playstyle it's not really that important. I personally don't really care; my strategies usual focus on forming choke points and then picking off the enemy units slowly for that reason I favor bulky units like knights and ranged units like snipers a lot more then most players do .

If you use chokepoint, why do you need bulky knights?

Fielding Rolf in 1 chapter to do random shitty potshots because you have enough unit slots for everyone anyway =/= fielding Cain in 1 chapter so he can solo the map because he is so much better than a huge majority of your other choices

Except that's not what you said. You said "how often do we field this unit". You didn't say anything about when or where they were fielded, only how often.

[Thor Odinson]

I still like it when I can move around when choking a point aka I suck at Lunatic and can't play anything resembling fast there

It's cuz so I can rotate whoever chokes the point so my healer doesn't get Spearfucked and characters with more move have an advantage in where they want to go sit their ass down and get healed :B

[Original Alear]

I still like it when I can move around when choking a point aka I suck at Lunatic and can't play anything resembling fast there

It's cuz so I can rotate whoever chokes the point so my healer doesn't get Spearfucked and characters with more move have an advantage in where they want to go sit their ass down and get healed :B

Unless there's some ridiculously bad terrain, even only armors blocking a chokepoint, assuming more than one, should be able to switch off and get healed by a healer out of range.

BUt I haven't played the FE11 or 12 super hard difficulties so Iunno.

[Thor Odinson]

There is things like Chapter 20 where, even disregarding that Generals will get doubled by most things unless Starsphere and Paladins can get to 30 def anyway (I used 28+2 def Paladin MU and Xane pretending to be him), the particular location I want to choke is such a convoluted space that a General would take a lot of unit shifting just to move anywhere while a Paladin can move around far more easily. It's...well, upper left corner with that chest. I don't feel like dragging out a map.

I blame those asshole Paladinforcements. Usually I have no trouble just advancing forward and just leaving a few units behind to deal with bullshit, but I don't particularly wanna deal with 5 or 6 (forgot how many) Paladins per turn. With Spears.

Bottom line is, even if you're not playing fast, movement = flexibility in placement and is still important.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Dark Sage]

copy what Paperblade did.

Should help.

[The_Purple_Knight]

If you use chokepoint, why do you need bulky knights

I'm overly cautious and hate to restart chapters , so units who can sponge a crap load of hits have always appealed to me . Dodgy units and units with mixed defenses ( decent avoid with decent defense ) , always run the risk of getting rng screwed and biting the dust. Genuinely bulky units like knights rarely have that problem so I've always used them for all my choke pointing needs.

Edit- curse you auto correct !

Edited May 8, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Thor Odinson]

Still depends on the knight, though. FE6 knights are kinda shit at tanking on hard mode. Oswin is actually pretty decent to good at least depending on how fast you play, I'll give him that. Enemies are too easy to not tink off Seth in FE8 forever, so knights are utterly redundant for tanking, just for GBA references

copy what Paperblade did.

Should help.

Are the rest of his videos in his channel? I checked the thread but it's only up to like, 15 or so. Not gonna try LTCing that shit the first time around, anyway, but might need a hint soon enough.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[The_Purple_Knight]

Still depends on the knight, though. FE6 knights are kinda shit at tanking on hard mode. Oswin is actually pretty decent to good at least depending on how fast you play, I'll give him that. Enemies are too easy to not tink off Seth in FE8 forever, so knights are utterly redundant for tanking, just for GBA references

I said bulky units like knights not necessarily knights themselves and yes i know knight's defense is usually over kill but like i said i'm paranoid I'd rather hear the clink then watch my unit die a death of a thousand cuts due to some awful random numbers.

Edited May 8, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Thor Odinson]

Two bulkiest unit types I can think of after Generals, hm

Yep, Dracoknights and Paladins. With 8 move too. Enough defense to survive a hit, enough move to be flexible.

~' 3'~

[Byte2222]

What do I think makes a unit good? Well, I suppose three things:

1. Versatility. The ability to do all and any jobs or tasks that the player requires, from dispatching a hoard of enemies to saving disparate villages to healing allies. Traits that help this: strong offense, high movement, high utility.

2. Reliability. Whatever task you ask of them they can and will do it without any trouble. Traits that help this: strong defence, strong enemy phase, no type weaknesses (like bows, armourslayers etc.).

3. No surprises. Be they good surprises (criticals, skill activation) or bad ones (taking too many hits or a crit) the unexpected can completely derail a plan and ruin the player's work. Traits that help this: basically all of the above, a good unit should rely on stats and performance and not luck or chance.

Not covered in the scope of my definition: availability (as far as I'm concerned it cannot be adequately weighed against other factors), growth (both high-growth and low-growth cases as they depend on the player*) and probably a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head right now.

*I say the weighting of growth depends on the player for two reasons. Subjectively speaking some players are more patient than others and are willing to take the time and effort to raise a difficult unit if their efforts are going to pay off. Objectively speaking a player's skill and personal preferences will affect the clear speed of chapters which in turn affects the exp yield from the chapters which in turn affects unit growth and performance.

[Progenitus]

Except that's not what you said. You said "how often do we field this unit". You didn't say anything about when or where they were fielded, only how often.

okay maybe i should have specified then

simply being fielded (even to just make a few shitty potshots/shoves/recruit/seize/etc) =/= being used

[Colonel M]

Best way to do it Lumi is simply to go balls-out on Hardin and clear the chapter by 7 Turns.

It should be pretty possible, and if you need help I probably can (kind of) show you what I mean. Hell, I might still have at least the save file of Chapter 20 to make the video.

[The_Purple_Knight]

Sometimes it seems like LTC is easier then casual play in lunatic mode with all the horrifying reinforcements.