The Resistance V

[Zanarkin]

Tbh

Wasn't I supposed to Take Responsibility back then? I wasn't really aware of that, so my apologies. Am I forced to now though?

Take Responsibility

Give this card to any other player. That player must immediately take a plot card from any other player, if possible.

It's an immediate effect, and there might well not be any choice. If there is, we'll just wait for you to make that choice.

Seems like it yeah.

[Elieson]

Dunno how I missed that one.

Bluedoom, please make your selection of either the "No Confidence" or "Strong Leader" plot cards prior to submitting the 4.2 Proposal.

[Bluedoom]

I'm taking Strong Leader, considering I was the one who gave Slayer the No Confidence card in the first place.

[scorri]

... Ok. That's... interesting. Guys, why did you vote no?

I voted no because it had Proto, who's my biggest read on scum right now, and then Tables who I'm really not sure about at all right now. Honestly, I'm hesitant to support a team that has either Proto or Shinori, but if I need to, I will support one that has Shinori on it. But I'd really prefer not to.

[Zanarkin]

I'm scummy on proto and tables, and to a lesser extent blue. I will only support a mission with me, shinori, scorri.

[Tables]

You know me and Blue can't both be spies, right?

Interesting that everyone voted no. I voted no because it's too risky right now, and I wanted to see who voted yes. Turns out it was nobody. I... think that's an interesting sign. Suppose there was a spy off of the mission. If they could get away with supporting, they would, as from our previous voting history, it seemed reasonable to think there'd probably be three yes votes. So what if there's two spies on the mission? They're happy with it, but don't think it'll pass, so vote no themselves?

It looks like Blue also thinks I'm a spy, judging by the fact he took SL from me, which is quite a bad sign. It means I need to convince one of you (whichever isn't the spy) that I'm resistance, or we probably lose. In fact, Blue taking SL is completely the wrong move, as now we need to pass proposal 3 at the latest, or we lose if Slayer is a spy. Which is... just terrible play from Blue, actually, if he's resistance, but clever if he's a spy, as it puts us in a hurried position. I don't think he was clever enough to realise that though.

[Tables]

At this point, I'm confident enough in Proto and Bluedoom. Especially considering that nobody voted yes to that last mission, I'm pretty confident there's no spies among us three. That's the only mission I'd be willing to pass at this point (the same as 4.1, which looks pretty likely to be clear of spies). If I had to choose one of Scorri and Shinori, I'm leaning towards Scorri being the last resistance, but I'm not confident.

[scorri]

So, right. Logically FMPOV, I don't trust Proto or Shinori. Tables, I honestly don't know what to think of you. Sometimes you seem resistance, sometimes you seem too resistance if that makes sense. I was more suspicious of slayer than I was Marth, and I think I'm still probably there. So I guess if a team was proposed of you, me, and marth I'd support it. That'd make the scum team shinori and slayer or shinori and proto though. Which... I guess I could see.

[Zanarkin]

You know me and Blue can't both be spies, right?

I mean as the scum team being Proto and blue, or you and proto.

[Shinori]

Based on the fact that no one said no I'd be inclined to believe the two spies are scorri/slayer.

Hrm. Unless we have a really sneaky spy on either proto or tables that voted no to be sneaky.

[Tables]

Sneaky and potentially throwing away a win right there. I was worried this mission would still go through even with my voting no, and we might insta-lose. But the fact everyone is voting no makes me confident.

Scorri: Shinori+Proto is possible, but they've both been on a mission together that's had exactly one sabotage. It's certainly not impossible, though.

[Zanarkin]

Sneaky and potentially throwing away a win right there.

Eh, not really, people aren't as likely to throw yes votes just like that, specially if they are not on the mission. There is a benefit to spies voting no, that is if anyone votes yes they can easily throw suspicion upon them.

[Tables]

You seem to not understand the word 'potentially'. In this case, they wouldn't have, but if one spy was on the mission, the other could have risked a yes vote for the easy win.

[Tables]

(Especially if they can justify it by saying they trust everyone on the mission)

[Kriemhild]

Okay, first, why I voted No. Remember I eat tables' advice when he was modding? "The resistance should by default vote no to a mission unless they're reasonably confident in it". And after the failure at Resistance II, I wasn't about to ignore the possibility of a double-Spy on the second sabotage. While I still found Slayer + scorri/Shinori and scorri + Shinori to be more likely, I wanted to vote No to my own proposals, hoping that if the Spy group was scorri/Shinori + I eat tables/Blues, the Spies would have voted Yes hoping that me and I eat tables/Blues (whichever isn't a Spy) would vote Yes as well. After all, I proposed it so it would make sense for me vote Yes, but they clearly didn't take the bait.

Now for what I can deduce from this result, from my point of view, there are two possibilities. One is that the Spy team is Slayer + scorri/Shinori or scorri + Shinori, which is the possibility free of complications. There were no double-Spy missions and the Spies voted No to my proposal because they weren't in it. The second possibility is the scorri/Shinori + Blues/I eat tables team. This makes 3.1 a double-Spy mission, and it also means that the Spies probably figured out I was baiting them in 4.1 and voted No. At the very least, I have little doubt that I eat tables, who hosted several games with me in them, was aware of my intentions when I proposed 4.1, regardless of whether he is actually Resistance or a Spy in this game.

Speaking of I eat tables, his reaction to 4.1's results were quite scummy. He never brought up the possibility that the Spies may have predicted that the mission would have failed regardless of their vote. Especially since the result was that EVERY SINGLE RESISTANCE member voted NO to this proposal. The Spies know everyone's alignment and they may have figured out the mission would be rejected, or at least wanted to play it safe and not expose themselves should the mission be rejected. I mean, I completely agree with I eat tables in that the team of Proto + I eat tables + Blues is the best team from my point of view as well, but I'm not confident enough about this team being clear to the extent of declaring that I'll vote Yes to a repeated 4.1 proposal. I wouldn't mind Blues saying something like that but for this to come out from I eat tables makes me very disappointed in him. ESPECIALLY since, from his point of view, there's a possibility of the scum team being Proto + scorri/Shinori/Blues, which I haven't considered for obvious reasons, with Proto+Blues being a team with no complications of a sabotaged double-Spy mission.

I eat tables, it's not just Slayer and Blues anymore that you need to convince, but me as well.

One other thing, which isn't really important, but Slayer+Blues is impossible because of 1.2, so the Spies can't force a win using both No Confidence and Strong Leader. It appears that the fourth proposal will be made by I eat tables. At most, only one of I eat tables/Blues/Slayer can be a Spy (1.2), so we can still afford to reject 4.3, giving us four proposals in this mission. I am assuming that Strong Leader doesn't allow Blues to negate I eat tables's proposal when used, or else it would be a superior No Confidence.

[Bluedoom]

I voted no because I felt weird about proto's proposal with me and Tables in it, although I guess after reading back on his post he did have a point. Still, I feel there's no hurry to accept a proposal just yet.

Actually, I'll put in a proposal right now, because I think this would do good.

Mission... 4?(the three man mission)

Proposal 4.2

Team: Bluedoom, Shinori, Slayer.

Let's see how this goes.

[Tables]

The second possibility is the scorri/Shinori + Blues/I eat tables team. This makes 3.1 a double-Spy mission, and it also means that the Spies probably figured out I was baiting them in 4.1 and voted No. At the very least, I have little doubt that I eat tables, who hosted several games with me in them, was aware of my intentions when I proposed 4.1, regardless of whether he is actually Resistance or a Spy in this game.

Actually, even after reading this, I'm still not sure what you mean. I saw the proposal, and thought it was interesting, but was concerned too many people would vote yes, and while I was confident in the team, I wasn't 100% confident. And at this point, I figured we had enough time, not only two potential proposals.

Speaking of I eat tables, his reaction to 4.1's results were quite scummy. He never brought up the possibility that the Spies may have predicted that the mission would have failed regardless of their vote. Especially since the result was that EVERY SINGLE RESISTANCE member voted NO to this proposal. The Spies know everyone's alignment and they may have figured out the mission would be rejected, or at least wanted to play it safe and not expose themselves should the mission be rejected.

Umm... your point? Also which spies do I think would have the foresight to predict that? I might have, but if I'm on the mission, especially when it has three people I can trust, I'd have very little reason to not vote yes as a spy. Even being the only person voting yes, I'd hardly have been in a bad position. You proposed the mission, if you had faith in it you'd have voted yes, although I suspected you might vote no anyway. Everyone else, I don't think would have had the foresight. And everyone else is the people who are spies. Even if I had seriously considered it, I would have discounted it.

I mean, I completely agree with I eat tables in that the team of Proto + I eat tables + Blues is the best team from my point of view as well, but I'm not confident enough about this team being clear to the extent of declaring that I'll vote Yes to a repeated 4.1 proposal. I wouldn't mind Blues saying something like that but for this to come out from I eat tables makes me very disappointed in him. ESPECIALLY since, from his point of view, there's a possibility of the scum team being Proto + scorri/Shinori/Blues, which I haven't considered for obvious reasons, with Proto+Blues being a team with no complications of a sabotaged double-Spy mission.

At this point, things are pretty desperate. Surely that should be a towntell, not a scumtell, when the spies are close to winning? And while I'm not 100% confident in that team, I'm confident enough that it was the only proposal Blue could make that I would vote yes to. I'm aware there are other possible teams, but they're unlikely. You I have at this point a strong townread on, especially since Slayer I have a strong scumread on, which forces you to be town. So I'm willing to discount the possibility of you being a spy to focus on more likely cases.

I eat tables, it's not just Slayer and Blues anymore that you need to convince, but me as well.

If you think I'm a spy, go back, and look over my posts assuming I'm a spy. Try and work out why I'm doing the things I'm doing. Then go back and look over it as though I'm Resistance. Look at my typical play as Mafia as well if you want, and my typical play as town. I don't know how convincing it'll be, but I'm taking a lot of chances and sabotaging my own position an awful lot if I'm a spy. Especially because, if I'm a spy, I'm HAPPY for you to focus on me, because it means my teammate could sneak into the mission.

One other thing, which isn't really important, but Slayer+Blues is impossible because of 1.2, so the Spies can't force a win using both No Confidence and Strong Leader. It appears that the fourth proposal will be made by I eat tables. At most, only one of I eat tables/Blues/Slayer can be a Spy (1.2), so we can still afford to reject 4.3, giving us four proposals in this mission. I am assuming that Strong Leader doesn't allow Blues to negate I eat tables's proposal when used, or else it would be a superior No Confidence.

I'll get back to you on that.

[Tables]

Also obviously I'm voting no to this proposal, since it has a spy (possibly two) on it.

[Elieson]

So many votes. This is unbelievable!

Round Prop [4.2] Mission [2] by [bluedoom]

Team: Slayer, Shinori, Bluedoom

Yes:

No: Bluedoom, Tableskitty, Luster Purge, Shinori, scorri, SlayerX

Result: Yes - 0 / No - 6

Proposal [Fails]

Leadership passes to Shinori

Yea, fyi. Same results as last time. It's a uNOnymous denial.

Notice I just changed a few things from 4.1, because why not.

Shinori, you are up.

[Tables]

Well... that's interesting. I think after the discussion over mission 4.1, the spies decided to play that one safe. Unless the spies are Proto/Scorri, which would be... interesting.

Incidentally, Shinori/Slayer can't both be spies, or we've already lost. I'm more suspicious of Slayer, for various reasons - twisting my words, less than helpful behavior, and generally Blue acting less scummy than him. Which would make the spy team most likely Scorri/Slayer. Hmm...

Actually, having read back, I saw this:

What a coincidence, because thats the reason i voted no. They seem to be the opposite of each other, but i feel at the sametime that they know being the opposite at all times seems odd (eventhough at all times here seems rather exaggerated because they have agreed on a few things). Also, Proto's support of having him and IET in different missions seems odd as well. In other news, i'm feeling relatively positive about Scorri, being rather popular among team selections, but this doesn't really say much (I just get good vibes from him). I would rather have scorri in the 2 man mission along with myself.

Go back and read this in context. It's... before this, Slayer had townreads on Proto and me. Then Shinori says he's suspicious of us both, and suddenly Slayer switches his tune too. If you can back a townie up on a false double townread and get away with it, that's a very useful spy move to make. And look who he decides he has a townread on? And go and read the immediately following posts. Assuming a Slayer/Scorri scumteam, they suddenly look a lot like coaching.

Yeah... Scorri/Slayer at this point looks quite likely to me.

[Shinori]

Well, with slayer being more scummy to me followed by proto and scorri I'm not sure which of those two could be the scum but I'm gonna do this.

Proposal whatevernumberthisis

Myself, Ieattables, Bluedoom

Sorry I haven't really been too active here. I sad. =( I wanted to do an actual mafia with IET!

[Zanarkin]

Go back and read this in context. It's... before this, Slayer had townreads on Proto and me. Then Shinori says he's suspicious of us both, and suddenly Slayer switches his tune too. If you can back a townie up on a false double townread and get away with it, that's a very useful spy move to make. And look who he decides he has a townread on? And go and read the immediately following posts. Assuming a Slayer/Scorri scumteam, they suddenly look a lot like coaching.

Yeah... Scorri/Slayer at this point looks quite likely to me.

I tend to write my thought process down in my PMs. I had thought of that after i said the thing about town reads and before shinori had his. However like many of the things i have already said in my PM, i didn't post it here.

[scorri]

One question though. How am I supposedly coaching Slayer? Spies aren't able to talk in their role PM I thought.

Moving on to that proposal. FMPOV, it has to contain at least one spy since I know I'm town, and Slayer/Proto can't be the spy team. Thus, I'm voting no to it.

[Shinori]

Wait how do you know it has to contain at least one spy? As far as I've seen the person you thought was a spy, proto isn't on it, and out of the other 3 we had no guarantee on which one of them was the spy or not. Therefore how would you know there is one scum on there at all unless you were scum or you are making illogical assumptions?

[Zanarkin]

Wait how do you know it has to contain at least one spy? As far as I've seen the person you thought was a spy, proto isn't on it, and out of the other 3 we had no guarantee on which one of them was the spy or not. Therefore how would you know there is one scum on there at all unless you were scum or you are making illogical assumptions?

Um its most likely that one of me and proto are spies. That means there is 4 people for the proposal. 1 Spy, 3 resistance. That means if you are resistance and you aren't on the mission, it guarantees a spy in it therefore losing the game for resistance. Also, this is assuming there was only one spy in mission 3.