Anonymous Mafia - Game Over

[Olivier]

basically doing the same thing people are suspicious of me for

forgoing a smaller scumread for a larger one? I still want and prefer a Sundown lynch, but, at the end of the day, I am not opposed to a Yoshimi lynch.

[All Might]

Eternity is behaving anti-town by announcing that he as a useless role and being really indifferent to the prospect of being lunched. If you don't want to be useful, then don't play the game. Easy as that.

I agree that this is anti-town behavior, but I don't see it as necessarily a scumtell because I've seen Town players do this. Given that he has been responding to stuff I prefer to wait and see how he looks D2.

You are partly correct. Regarding Sundown, I didn't catch the rolefishing, but I thought his subsequent defense wasn't good and he seemed to "squirm"(Oh gosh is that what I look like now?), leading to my vote. As for Eternity, I voted for them because I felt strongly about their vote on Shotta(a reason that nobody else cited, fwiw).

It's true that you mentioned the Shotta vote, but in the very same post you yourself admit to mostly just agreeing with Colin and Vanilla. And the fact that you're even partly agreeing with me that your votes are just echoing is kind of problematic. If you see the problem fix the problem, basically.

Also: I think phase end is midnight-ish (so four hours left) so we should really get on consolidating on a lynch target. Particularly if we're actually going to lynch Sundown, because the last voter on that wagon needs to be planned rather than random. If no one else wants to lynch Asparagus then I am willing to switch to Yoshimi as well.

[Rain Nijika]

I'm here and reading up

[Rain Nijika]

Time to get over my dislike of that damn vegetable

##Unvote

In a sort of unique way, I think Asparagus is actually town now based on his/her latest comments. I missed the slip so I don't know whoever actually posted on their real account but I think I have an idea of who Asparagus is now. Anyway that's besides the point.

I'm not liking Eternity, and not because he voted me but because he has posted 0 quality when he was around, hasn't helped with scumhunting, claimed a shit role, and basically doesn't give a fuck. I can't really talk because I haven't existed. However I wanna give him a little more time because it seems like he's improving ever so slightly.

I didn't really like Sundown either, but I'm not risking a lynchbomb, which I believe is a possibility in this game. I'm leaning towards just badtown right now.

##Vote Yoshimi

He's looking the scummiest to me IMO. Jumped on both wagons opportunistically using other people's reasoning and hasn't really contributed many quality posts (mostly fluff really).

[Prims]

Eternlty (3) - Colin Mochrie, Vanilla Diet Coke, Yoshimi

Sundown (3) - Perseus, tails1996, Daniel Craig

Yoshimi (3) - Asparagus, Sparrow, Shotta

Asparagus (2) - VoltTackle, Trafalgar

NE93B27J3U (2) - ILoveTangerine, Sundown

Shotta (1) - Eternlty

VoltTackle (1) - NE93B27J3U

Not Voting - None!

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to hammer. You have 3 hours left in the day (countdown).

[All Might]

Okay, we have three hours left and a three-way tie, and it seems clear an Asparagus lynch is not in the cards today. So I will tiebreak.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Yoshimi

@Perseus, if you come up with some kind of plan for a Sundown wagon I'm all ears but I doubt anyone will volunteer to be last poster.

[Refakitty³]

if yoshimi flips town, volt is much more likely to be scum

[Ochako Uraraka]

I honestly don't care if Sundown's claiming a lynch bomb - this guy's reading comprehension and logic are failing on impressive levels, and I volunteer to hammer this. This is my logic:

I perceived this as irrelevant fluff. (1)

I perceived this as him stating his opinion that CM looks the most Townish for that post. (2)

I assumed that the "which means" was a follow up to the previous sentence about CM looking Townish. He didn't use the word "so" but "which means" implies the same thing. Oh, wait, his previous sentence didn't actually mention CM being Townish, but rather, he just pointed out that his strongest Town read was here in a specific quote. So this next line must be about the previous quote. Which is why I was suspicious. It would have looked okay if I hadn't looked at the timestamps, but when I noticed the inconsistency, I couldn't understand tails's actions. I mean, seriously, think about it. If tails was reading the thread, found the CM post, copied it to his reply stating that it was his strongest Town read, and then scroll up, find Trafalgar's post, copying it to the reply stating that it's the worst vote because of the aforementioned Town read? You can't accuse someone for voting due to a Townish post that came later on. (3)

And if the CM quote and Trafalgar quote are unrelated and that the CM quote was not his involved with his thoughts about Trafalgar's quote being the worst vote, then why would he write "which means"??? I'm not the one who is falsely claiming that tails was connecting CM's quote with Trafalgar's quote, it was tails himself that connected them through the words "which means". When you say "STATEMENT C which means STATEMENT E", it implies that your reasoning behind STATEMENT E came from STATEMENT C. C was about CM's quote being townish, E was about Trafalgar's quote being the worst vote, so tails was implying that Trafalgar's quote was the worst vote BECAUSE CM's quote looks townish. Which doesn't make sense if CM's quote came AFTER Trafalgar's quote. (4)

I assume he's referring to my unintentional rolefishing, which I explained already. He doesn't want to vote for me, though, because I have enough votes. Reasonable. (5)

Okay, so he explained why he isn't voting for me. His next step was to vote Trafalgar. Nothing to imply that this vote was random. Of course, failure to mention anything relevant about the user you're voting generally implies it was a random vote, but he did refer to Trafalgar's quote earlier. My thought process was that after tails decided I had enough votes on me, he decided to go for a different target, choosing Trafalgar because of that quote which he referred to as the "worst vote". You, Perseus, on the other hand, seem to believe that he chose his next target randomly, without any proper reasoning, but I fail to see any evidence supporting your theory. It most certainly isn't "very clear" from my point of view. True, he did not outright say that he found Trafalgar scummy, but he quoted his post and gave a negative opinion on it. As far as I can deduce from his posts, the only players he didn't like were me and Trafalgar, which would logically explain his non-random vote for Trafalgar. Before you attack me for my response, I would appreciate it if YOU could tell what you think went through tails' head while making that post. (6)

If this keeps up, I will have to roleclaim, but until then, I might as well post my own thoughts here.

##Unvote: tails

##Vote: NE#

I don't like how he found VoltTackle to be 90% scum because of a single post (though, his analysis on that post was pretty good). And then he just declares that he dislikes all the current wagons, but evades answering which wagons he would have preferred otherwise. Again, my suspicion on him is probably gonna look as suspicious as my unintentional rolefishing on him, but I really don't like how he just posts stuff without clarifying whether he's serious or not. It's like having the freedom to say whatever you want, but exaggerate them a little ("I have my reasons", "90% scum"), so that they aren't treated as serious statements. (7)

(1) I respond to votes, no matter how silly they are. Yoshimi's reasoning screamed random, so he got a random response. I think a lot of people in here could use that lesson, you included.

(2) That's one of them. I didn't feel like quote montage.

(3) You're attempting to use your own crappy interpretation of events to justify your crappy logic. This is bad practice, and it would be best if you considered what other people said before convincing yourself that you're right.

(4) You definitly didn't read my response to Sparrrow regarding my vote. Or perhaps you thought to ignore it. Either way, you're wrong, you're defending a point that's wrong, and that's scummy.

(5) Unintentional or not, you had enough of the game on your case. I figured I'd give you a chance to open your mouth, and I'm so very glad that I did.

(6) Do you see my role PM? No? Attempting to theorize what the fuck living players are doing is risky, and you're a shining example of why. You have no idea what motivates me, why I'm doing what I'm doing, and yet you think your interpretation is right. Is it really that hard to ask said person for their own explanation? While I appreciate the speculation, Perseus, you're free to ask people why they're doing what they're doing.

And no, I'm not going to apologize for anything aside from being a horrible Mafia player. I still don't see anything wrong with a) wanting to know whether a specific post was a serious post or a joke when there are doubts about that, and b) assuming that the phrase "which means" indicates that the following statement is directly supported by the preceding statement. If those two are actually scummy, I apologize, because clearly something must be wrong with how I think this game is to be played.

Someone told you that you're wrong. You apologize when the person you're misinterpreting says you're wrong.

Of the people voting me for bad reasons, the only one I don't have too much issue with is the soda. I'm glad to see that you have figured out that emotion and alliance aren't mutually exclusive. The other people who I take great issue with:

Defend myself from what? Two prior votes on me were made with no stated reasoning, giving nothing to actually reply to usefully; as for your points, yes, my position on Sundown at the time was neutral, would not lynch, want to wait and see how things develop, and my position on Tails was not my preferred lynch but could possibly go for his lynch if my preferred one won't happen. I can have an opinion on the various wagons and players without having a mega-strong read on each one.

If you want someone lynched, you make a case against that person, and see what other people have to say. Throwing votes on someone that you might want lynched, especially when there's a fast wagon forming, is scummy. When people vote for you, no matter how dumb you think it is, you respond to it. The rest of tha wall of text reeks of people you'd be "okay" with lynching - you want someone lynched, or you don't. Half-lynching isn't an option.

That's generally what happens when someone uses bad logic, yeah.

Saving this.

I'm really... uneasy, to put it simply, with this post.

You begin by insulting the people whom don't follow your logic (beautiful, asshole), and pretty much the majority of this post is Tails PMSing and ranting about people being retarded. The sheer amount of emotion in this post is absolutely horrendous, and it only serves to get people even more pissed off at you.

Also, going on and asking someone to apologise to you, when YOU'RE the one who ought to be throwing out the apology for all the insults you've thrown in this game? Nice one.

I don't actually think that displays of emotion implies town, because it's pretty easy for mafia to get pissed when posting and resort to insults, or use appeal to emotion as an argument.

Once again, the point has flown over your head. Emotion is a null tell. It is not a town tell. It is not a scum tell. Follow your own advice regarding bad logic, because if the scummiest people were the ones with bad logic, you just did the equivalent of posting your PM with a mafia win condition.

One more random quote:

also, dammitall if i can't help but feel like i'm going about things all the wrong way here. it seems like the more i dig, the more i find reasons not to lynch various people. i'm probably being just overcautious, and this is pushing me into stagnancy. i need to take a break here and go clear my head.

You were doing great, and then this. There's quite a few other people I think are scummy (like the two people quoted above you), so please don't do this in the future.

I'm getting a null read on Yoshimi, and that's due to meta that shouldn't exist. My gut's telling me that he's town, but he'll give a lot of information if lynched. Personally, I want a lynch on Sundown, followed by VoltTackle and Eternity.

[Aizen]

You don't mind the risk of losing a townie if his claim is real?

[Refakitty³]

tails

you realize if he's telling the truth you'll die and we might lose two townies IF YOU'RE TOWN

[All Might]

If you want someone lynched, you make a case against that person, and see what other people have to say. Throwing votes on someone that you might want lynched, especially when there's a fast wagon forming, is scummy. When people vote for you, no matter how dumb you think it is, you respond to it. The rest of tha wall of text reeks of people you'd be "okay" with lynching - you want someone lynched, or you don't. Half-lynching isn't an option.

If someone makes a vote on me with no provided reasoning, then I do not see it as worthwhile to post in response, because there's nothing to respond TO. It would be a useless post. If someone provides reasoning, then I'll say something.

Also, if my preferred lynch target is not viable, then I am willing to switch to less preferred targets, ie, those I am only 'okay' with lynching. Especially in a game like this where after today we MUST hammer in order to lynch, possible but less preferred targets are meaningful.

if yoshimi flips town, volt is much more likely to be scum

Alternately I don't want a tie and thus switched to a less preferred target.

I honestly don't care if Sundown's claiming a lynch bomb - this guy's reading comprehension and logic are failing on impressive levels, and I volunteer to hammer this. This is my logic:

Do you think he's fakeclaiming? If not a safer option might be to hope we have a vig and that they shoot Sundown. I don't have a strong Town read on you but you are not scummy enough for me to want to risk getting you killed.

[Estelle]

sorry guys i was out most of the day and i was feeling sick when i came home, so i napped for a few hours. that's why i've been mostly missing.

I see no reason to move my vote then. A scumread who's gone and announced that they're not ever going to be useful sounds like a good Day 1 lynch to me.

i really really do not like this reasoning. a townie with a useless role is still a townie. do we lynch vanilla claims in games with vanillas just because they have useless roles? no. and a townie who's not contributing is also a townie. perhaps less valuable than a townie leading and promoting discussion, but a townie nonetheless. lynch him because he's being scummy if you want, don't lynch him because he said that he won't help much. several people echoed this reasoning afterwards, and since i doubt all of them are mafia, stop it.

my vote is going to stick on yoshimi for now because i'd much rather lynch a scumread who didn't claim lynchbomb over one who did. i'll be on until phase end though so i can switch if a tiebreak is required. however, why would tails die if sundown is lynched? isn't daniel craig the member with the last vote on sundown, or are prims's votals not ordered?

[All Might]

my vote is going to stick on yoshimi for now because i'd much rather lynch a scumread who didn't claim lynchbomb over one who did. i'll be on until phase end though so i can switch if a tiebreak is required. however, why would tails die if sundown is lynched? isn't daniel craig the member with the last vote on sundown, or are prims's votals not ordered?

Tails volunteered to be the hammer, ie, the last vote on the wagon. He isn't currently.

[Aizen]

This game has been an utter disaster for me, but it looks like it's come to this. I'm the town doctor.

I had planned on trying to blend in to get far with this role, but that's obviously not worked out too well. Also, I blame a lack of sleep for some of my criticisms. Either way, I suggest that we don't lynch me.

My opinions of Asparagus and Eternity are a bit different now. Asparagus has seemed more townish for the past page or two(although still annoying for busting my balls) and somebody brought up a good point on Eternity that it's unwise for mafia to claim to be useless/busy.

Therefore, I will ##Unvote.

I would like a Sundown lynch the most, but he could be actually telling the truth, so I think we should settle elsewhere. I said I was suspicious of VDC, and I still am. VDC is voting Eternity for what I believe to be misguided reasons(the same reasons I was voting for Eternity(I was wrong, once again)). And now, has poofed during the most vital time.

I'm getting town reads from NE93 and Colin Mochrie. Tails is using way too much emotion to get an accurate read, since emotion is usually perceived as townish.

##Vote: VDC

[All Might]

are you kidding me, there's like half an hour left in phase or something

##Unvote

Nobody else wants to lynch Asparagus and Sundown wagon is too risky imo, ghhhh now I need to reread real quick.

[Estelle]

...you probably should have claimed earlier when more people were here. ughhh.... i'm not risking a doctor lynch quite yet.

##unvote

i'm not going to start in on a vdc power wagon this late.

[All Might]

...you probably should have claimed earlier when more people were here. ughhh.... i'm not risking a doctor lynch quite yet.

##unvote

i'm not going to start in on a vdc power wagon this late.

Okay, the options I'm seeing here are Eternity lynch, which I'm not interested in, Asparagus, which no one but me is interested in, Yoshimi (doc claim, yeah no), Sundown (lynchbomb claim), or powerwagon someone else. Powerwagon is bad, and if not Asparagus my preference would be Sundown, but...lynchbomb claim. Currently Daniel is the last vote (assuming Prims' votals are in chronological order), and I don't have much of a read on him yet. Not really sure what to do at this point.

Sparrow who would you prefer to lynch now?

[Aizen]

I didn't actually think I was going to be lynched, so I waited. It appears that VDC is reading the thread so hopefully he responds as well. I'd like to know his thoughts and stuff.

[Ochako Uraraka]

I was serious about being the hammer.##Unvote

[Estelle]

why are you so very sure that sundown is scum? or do you just not care if you die?

[Ochako Uraraka]

If Sundown is telling the truth, you will get a flip on me. If he is not, then we lynch scum. Either the rest of the town is stupidly powerful, or there are two extremely harmful town roles in the game. In such a situation, it is better that I don't exist.

[All Might]

I was serious about being the hammer.##Unvote

The fact that you are willing to hammer a lynchbomb claim makes you seem more Town to me (why would scum take the risk?) which makes me not want you to do it. And if you are Town, then you are the only person you KNOW is Town; are you really either that sure Sundown is fakeclaiming or that sure he's scum?

[Prims]

Eternlty (2) - Colin Mochrie, Vanilla Diet Coke

NE93B27J3U (2) - ILoveTangerine, Sundown

Sundown (2) - Perseus, Daniel Craig

Yoshimi (2) - Asparagus, Shotta

Asparagus (1) - Trafalgar

Shotta (1) - Eternlty

Vanilla Diet Coke (1) - Yoshimi

VoltTackle (1) - NE93B27J3U

Not Voting - Sparrrow, tails1996, VoltTackle

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to hammer. You have 1 hour left in the day (countdown).

[All Might]

If Sundown is telling the truth, you will get a flip on me. If he is not, then we lynch scum. Either the rest of the town is stupidly powerful, or there are two extremely harmful town roles in the game. In such a situation, it is better that I don't exist.

Ninja'd me. Okay, so from this I guess you have some reason why losing your role wouldn't be that damaging for us?

[Ochako Uraraka]

I'm sure that me being dead is far more helpful than me being alive. In the case of someone who I'm convinced needs to go, I'd rather find out NOW, then wait for a vig who may not exist.