Alrighty.

[Raven]

I like up-tilt, though.

Up-tilt is awesome, it's pretty quick too. And powerful. It can send damaged players soaring.

[Zanryu]

Really, Ike isn't that cheap. He's too slow to be cheap. Only way you can call him cheap is if you're too stupid to avoid his strong moves. The only thing REALLY hard to dodge is his A combo and back air, if the player can Back Air Rush you. The rest is a bit too slow to get hit by all the time.

Pit is pretty cheap, as he has two reflector moves, one of which is a constant attack move, his A combo is a constant attack move, and he has one of the best recoveries in the game. Not to mention his smashes do multiple hits, so if you can dodge part A, you may still get smacked by part B.

Meta Knight is fairly cheap too, as almost nothing gets through Mach Tornado. He's got so many multiple hit moves it isn't even funny.

And then there's Mario, who's back air has like, the highest priority in the game. I've only seen Counters and Mario's BAir get through a Mach Tornado. So if someone can BAR you, and they use Mario, you're practically dead from the get go, unless you can dodge really well.

Hell, Marth's cheaper than Ike, because he has decent power and he's pretty damn fast. He combos easy, and he's got Counter, which can get people out of almost any situation. Although Ike has Counter, it's somewhat harder to time with him, and has less range. Marth's has a wider arc, whereas Ike's is pretty centered.

[Florete]

Ike is cheap, especially in battles with more than 2 people. The problem isn't accidentally getting hit, but his sword has great range, and it is easily misjudged.. Anyone who can kill something with 50% damage with a non-charged side-A smash from the center of the stage should be considered cheap.

Pit is also cheap. I hate that damned angel....

And the only real good attack Marth has is down-A smash. Everything else isn't all too powerful, just annoying.

[Serene]

Ike is cheap, especially in battles with more than 2 people. The problem isn't accidentally getting hit, but his sword has great range, and it is easily misjudged.. Anyone who can kill something with 50% damage with a non-charged side-A smash from the center of the stage should be considered cheap.

Pit is also cheap. I hate that damned angel....

And the only real good attack Marth has is down-A smash. Everything else isn't all too powerful, just annoying.

But as we have all learned

Every character has a the ablity to be cheap, in any way, shape, or forum, you just have to get around the cheapness. But in the case of Ike, his cheapness comes from his strenght not his projectiles. Making it so that you have to be a bit more defensive than normal.

[Florete]

But as we have all learned

Every character has a the ablity to be cheap, in any way, shape, or forum, you just have to get around the cheapness. But in the case of Ike, his cheapness comes from his strenght not his projectiles. Making it so that you have to be a bit more defensive than normal.

Truth. Projectiles murder Ike. I also tend to hate fighting Kirby's.

[Masu]

*sees Kirby Spam Down B*

Bleh. I hate fighting Meta Knight so much.

[Serene]

Truth. Projectiles murder Ike. I also tend to hate fighting Kirby's.

Projectiles against Ike help out, I mean if Ike had a projectile himself then he'd be even cheaper.

Also to the Kirby thing. Agreed. Kirby can be worse than Ike aginst some people. But I've seen about every Kirby spam in the book, including the suicide strategy

[Rehab]

As an aside, DK's windmill punch thing gets through MK's tornado. Which I think is awesome.

[uguu]

*sees Kirby Spam Down B*

Bleh. I hate fighting Meta Knight so much.

Try the Z button/Zr button/the nunchuk grab button/the Wiimote grab button

breaks through their defenses. Also, try doing >20 damage (that's what I assume to be the stone's limit since Kirby takes about 20 damage when you break his rock)

[Zanryu]

And the only real good attack Marth has is down-A smash. Everything else isn't all too powerful, just annoying.

It is if you have the placement down. I forget the percentages, but an uncharged FSmash tipper does nice enough damage and has good knock back. Charged is brutal.

Also, Donkey's punch thing may be able to break the Mach Tornado, but by the time the punch comes out, you'll almost always be trapped in the tornado, as you don't even need to touch it to get caught. >_>

[Knife]

It is if you have the placement down. I forget the percentages, but an uncharged FSmash tipper does nice enough damage and has good knock back. Charged is brutal.

Also, Donkey's punch thing may be able to break the Mach Tornado, but by the time the punch comes out, you'll almost always be trapped in the tornado, as you don't even need to touch it to get caught. >_>

Not really, his punch has super armor frames before unleashed, so the Tornado shouldn't stun him, just damage him.

Anyone else notice how awesome/cheap Ike's A, A, A move is? I'd say it is the best neutral combo in the game. Easy to land and it is hard to get out of. It also does around 16% damage, which is a lot for a neutral combo. A lot of pro Ike users abuse the neutral combo until they rack up around 60, then they start going for killing moves.

[Rehab]

It's probably my favorite jab. Snake, Falco and Olimar are up there, but Ike's just too good with the jab.

[Knife]

Well, Snake's forward tilt is a lot better than his neutral combo, and Olimar's does only around like 8 damage. I'd say Falco has a good jab, but he has a lot of lag afterwards, unlike Ike.

[Zanryu]

Not really, his punch has super armor frames before unleashed, so the Tornado shouldn't stun him, just damage him.

He has super armour frames, yes, but if you can't time it, you'll be pressing the button just as you get caught. MK moves pretty quick in the Tornado, and DK's punch isn't super fast, so you need epic timing to get it right more often than not.

And yeah, Ike's A combo is somewhat cheap, but it makes sense to do so much damage. I mean, look at that sword! It's almost as big as he is. ;-;

But yeah, link it to a missed Quick Draw, and you've got pursuit and trapping. Then you send them off, go for the spike. =D

[Rehab]

Well, Snake's forward tilt is a lot better than his neutral combo, and Olimar's does only around like 8 damage. I'd say Falco has a good jab, but he has a lot of lag afterwards, unlike Ike.

Snake's tilts are awesome, but it's good to have some variety so that f-tilt doesn't decay too much or something. Plus, it's nice that it has killing ability. Olimar can do about 16% with a jab if he's at optimal range, though it's pretty damn close. I just play favs with Olimar. I saw a gif where Falco did a quick jab on a snake, then rolled beind him and did it again, 2 more times. That was too awesome for me not to love it.

[Kintenbo]

Why non-Ike players? Wouldn't it give you a better chance at victory. Ike is dismal at one on one fights. He's basically like a much better Ganondork, which isn't saying much. As you can tell, I'm not very impressed with Ike, even if he does fight for his friends. I'll won't get sympathy from him, will I?

[Rehab]

Aww. I like Ganondorf.