Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

[Espinosa]

I don't give a fuck what you think but you're acting in a way I'd see a child act. Not someone who is 20 years old.

I don't know, but when I read bits of discourse like the ones below I'd say I rather sense an influence of an elderly person with ultraconservative views, for whom it wouldn't be abnormal to say:

incompetent government that is destroying my country

or

You are just a typical liberal jackass who has no idea how the world actually works

You could argue that such easily angered elders are 'childish', but that's not even redefining the terms, it's attributing them a completely arbitrary meaning.

[Rehab]

Or at the very least a society where not a significant minority is doped up on prescription drugs, whatever self medication they buy online, or just plain old drugs or alcohol. Taking antidepressants will never fix your problem. Usually they just make it worse. Same with all of the other shit you can get from your doctor or China. They'll just hide the symptoms (somewhat) and have a ton of side effects.

It's different for everybody. My mom reacts horribly to many drugs that've been prescribed to her, if not most, and has gone from anxious and awkward pre-medication, to borderline psychotic (as in, directly worse) on some, to being less trouble to deal with but relatively catatonic on her latest. I've been on them since before I was 12, so it's almost hard to remember how I'm different, though taking on and lessening dosages of different ones has had both positive and negative affects, sometimes in a single step. I've heard other people say that after getting prescribed medication they felt the same as their old selves but more functional and efficient in every way, though, and I've had hints of those results when I've been lucky.

I think it's a hard comparison to make, at best. Though, while I have strong feelings on both meds and guns, I probably know a lot less about one than the other.

Lol redturtle. I'd say I'm pretty low, actually. But Ritalin and Adderall did indeed suck flaming hot lead, as far as my experiences with them went. Lexapro, dude.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Rehab

[redturtle806]

Lol redturtle. I'd say I'm pretty low, actually. But Ritalin and Adderall did indeed suck flaming hot lead, as far as my experiences with them went. Lexapro, dude.

Ya the Ritalin crash is pretty bad, and I forgot about about vyvanse. Vyvanse sucks donkey balls. I'll look into Lexapro next time I need some.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Calling each other biased is a shitty attempt of so called debaters to discredit each other in their own eyes. In other words, it's hollow name calling and you're both a disgrace for doing it.

I think this is actually a really good point. In an argument like this, that particular kind of bias is sort of irrelevant. I mean, if somebody's arguing one of the sides, of course they probably think it's right.

edit: Also, with regard to mental illness chat, I think it's pretty rash to just outright say that prescriptions are ineffective or should never be used. To be sure, they're probably way over prescribed and used unwisely, but they have a number of legitimate uses, and they do work for some people who are depressed. If it stops their depression, I say more power to them.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Defeatist Elitist

[Excellen Browning]

edit: Also, with regard to mental illness chat, I think it's pretty rash to just outright say that prescriptions are ineffective or should never be used. To be sure, they're probably way over prescribed and used unwisely, but they have a number of legitimate uses, and they do work for some people who are depressed. If it stops their depression, I say more power to them.

I'm not saying prescriptions cannot be justified. I'm just seriously wondering why so many Americans get an antidepressant prescription, compared to us Europeans.

I mean, are they less happy? Are you guys more sensitive toward mental illness? Is it the food or the cheap gas or the nuclear weapons tests? I doubt it. Humans are much the same all over the world, the only large dividing forces are colour of skin, language and culture.

[Esau of Isaac]

Calling each other biased is a shitty attempt of so called debaters to discredit each other in their own eyes. In other words, it's hollow name calling and you're both a disgrace for doing it.

"How dare you namecall other people you piece of shit."

I mean, are they less happy? Are you guys more sensitive toward mental illness? Is it the food or the cheap gas or the nuclear weapons tests? I doubt it. Humans are much the same all over the world, the only large dividing forces are colour of skin, language and culture.

Not only are those just some of the differences between different nations, those are all massive differences that greatly contribute to a different environment.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Excellen Browning]

"How dare you namecall other people you piece of shit."

If you can't figure out what I actually meant by saying that, then there isn't enough time in Emmett Brown's workshop for me to explain it.

[Esau of Isaac]

If you can't figure out what I actually meant by saying that, then there isn't enough time in Emmett Brown's workshop for me to explain it.

Were you trying to be ironic?

[Excellen Browning]

Were you trying to be ironic?

Were you trying to act stupid?

[Rehab]

I'm not saying prescriptions cannot be justified. I'm just seriously wondering why so many Americans get an antidepressant prescription, compared to us Europeans.

I mean, are they less happy? Are you guys more sensitive toward mental illness? Is it the food or the cheap gas or the nuclear weapons tests? I doubt it. Humans are much the same all over the world, the only large dividing forces are colour of skin, language and culture.

Oh yeah, this is a thing too.

"My therapy team suggested it"

"Your what?"

Honestly, I feel like I've almost never been able to tell the difference going on new drugs. I've lost some of the will to argue about it I had a while ago. I might've been able to figure it out over really long periods, but it didn't make it any easier to tell if there was a huge benefit subjectively, and I never managed to keep tacks objectively. Or almost never.

Except this one time I got on a high dose of some thing I forget the name of, higher than I was supposed to be scheduled to get on to start with, and I literally had this playing in my head for 2 days

I was like "I'm gonna take up martial arts again and get all A's and be Bruce Lee except less of a jerk as a kid and and and"

And then I woke up at 6 and got ready for class and, uh

whoa I'm derailing this ok I'll stop

Edited December 17, 2012 by Rehab

[Esau of Isaac]

Were you trying to act stupid?

That's hollow namecalling stop it Excellen

[redturtle806]

I'm not saying prescriptions cannot be justified. I'm just seriously wondering why so many Americans get an antidepressant prescription, compared to us Europeans.

I mean, are they less happy? Are you guys more sensitive toward mental illness? Is it the food or the cheap gas or the nuclear weapons tests? I doubt it. Humans are much the same all over the world, the only large dividing forces are colour of skin, language and culture.

I would say America Big Pharma has a lot to do with it, especially with their advertising and lobbying. They've done an excellent job convincing people they need 3-4 prescriptions to preform at their best.

[Excellen Browning]

I would say America Big Pharma has a lot to do with it, especially with their advertising and lobbying. They've done an excellent job convincing people they need 3-4 prescriptions to preform at their best.

You're collectively buying it. Which makes you at fault.

[redturtle806]

You're collectively buying it. Which makes you at fault.

Nah man. Only medicine I've ever needed is...

Edited December 17, 2012 by redturtle806

[Defeatist Elitist]

So I'm not sure how serious that was meant as a response, but I do find it interesting how some people believe that drugs developed by professionals specifically to combat depression are useless and do nothing, or even that they're unreliable, while simultaneously believing marijuana is some sort of cure-all wonder drug (or even just that it's very effective at dealing with things like that). I mean, I've met few people more rampantly for legalization of recreational drugs than I am, but that specific opinion has always been kind of weird. I guess people just distrust the pharmaceutical industry a ton.

[redturtle806]

So I'm not sure how serious that was meant as a response, but I do find it interesting how some people believe that drugs developed by professionals specifically to combat depression are useless and do nothing, or even that they're unreliable, while simultaneously believing marijuana is some sort of cure-all wonder drug (or even just that it's very effective at dealing with things like that). I mean, I've met few people more rampantly for legalization of recreational drugs than I am, but that specific opinion has always been kind of weird. I guess people just distrust the pharmaceutical industry a ton.

It was only kinda serious. If I am seriously sick I'll go to the hospital of course. But I don't take drugs like Tylenol (it's hard on the liver) or stuff like Xanax (Benzo addiction is all too common). Marijuana is no wonder drug, and when taken allday everyday it's terrible for you. But it's great for the occasional headache or common cold.

[Esau of Isaac]

So I'm not sure how serious that was meant as a response, but I do find it interesting how some people believe that drugs developed by professionals specifically to combat depression are useless and do nothing, or even that they're unreliable, while simultaneously believing marijuana is some sort of cure-all wonder drug (or even just that it's very effective at dealing with things like that). I mean, I've met few people more rampantly for legalization of recreational drugs than I am, but that specific opinion has always been kind of weird. I guess people just distrust the pharmaceutical industry a ton.

It's because of a prevalent distrust of large corporations coupled with a love for all things "natural."

[redturtle806]

It's because of a prevalent distrust of large corporations coupled with a love for all things "natural."

Why the hell should we trust big pharma? Both aspirin and heroin were invented by Bayer, and meth was sold like crazy in the 40-50s.

[Excellen Browning]

So I'm not sure how serious that was meant as a response, but I do find it interesting how some people believe that drugs developed by professionals specifically to combat depression are useless and do nothing, or even that they're unreliable, while simultaneously believing marijuana is some sort of cure-all wonder drug (or even just that it's very effective at dealing with things like that). I mean, I've met few people more rampantly for legalization of recreational drugs than I am, but that specific opinion has always been kind of weird. I guess people just distrust the pharmaceutical industry a ton.

A small list of common antidepressant side effect:

nausea

insomnia

anxiety

restlessness

decreased sex drive

dizziness

weight gains

tremors

sweating

sleepiness

fatigue

diarrhea

constipation

headaches

Now let's compare to a small list of common depression symptoms

depressed mood

taking less pleasure in life

changes in appetite

changes in sleeping pattern

restless habits

lack of energy

feeling worthless or guilty

inability to concentrate

thinks about killing oneself

Notice the similarities? Please be aware that what I'm saying here is not that pot is great because it's natural and all human-made medicine are evil because they're synthetic. Because to be quite honest if I said that I'd be a disgrace to the group of people working in my field. (Although I do have to mention that several compounds found in marijuana have some very, very interesting pharmaceutical prospects)

My knowledge also forces me to say something else, though. The human body is complex. So complex, in fact, that it's not been fully mapped yet and new proteins are being found to this day. And then I'm not even thinking of variables caused by genetics. This all makes predicting effect impossible, really.

[Esau of Isaac]

Why the hell should we trust big pharma? Both aspirin and heroin were invented by Bayer, and meth was sold like crazy in the 40-50s.

Are you saying that today's modern medical scene is as bad or worse as it was in the early 1900s?

My knowledge also forces me to say something else, though. The human body is complex. So complex, in fact, that it's not been fully mapped yet and new proteins are being found to this day. And then I'm not even thinking of variables caused by genetics. This all makes predicting effect impossible, really.

Your knowledge? I'm curious, what knowledge is this?

[Raven]

How can you possibly expect someone to react well following your constant sanctimonious behavior throughout this an other topics regarding gun control? You've been a thinly-veiled dick throughout many of these conversations by just sitting on a high horse and painting the picture of a crime-ridden America, with everyone fearing just to walk around outside.

First of all, redturtle was being rude to Anouleth, and not me. If he had a problem with me being a thinly-veiled dick on a high horse, then it's only fair to keep any abuse directed towards me.

I've been trying to keep it level while attempting to convey my opinion on this matter, so I'm not really sure how you think I'm on my high horse. It would be nice (and personally useful) if you could maybe point out instances.

But I'm sorry you think I've been a thinly-veiled dick in this. I honestly can't see how; nobody else has said anything about it (yet). I've been accused of being this and that simply for stating my opinions which I believe could improve the USA's current situation. So I ask again, please point out instances where you believe I've been a dick and/or on my high horse.

[redturtle806]

I'm saying that just because a drug is legal and is sold, it is not necessarily safe for use. And that personally I would like to avoid being a guinea pig for new medicines, based on big pharmas track record.

[Dark Sage]

I'm saying that just because a drug is legal and is sold, it is not necessarily safe for use. And that personally I would like to avoid being a guinea pig for new medicines, based on big pharmas track record.

You do realize that most medicines undergo years worth of clinical trials before they're put on the market right?

Right?

[Esau of Isaac]

First of all, redturtle was being rude to Anouleth, and not me. If he had a problem with me being a thinly-veiled dick on a high horse, then it's only fair to keep any abuse directed towards me.

I've been trying to keep it level while attempting to convey my opinion on this matter, so I'm not really sure how you think I'm on my high horse. It would be nice (and personally useful) if you could maybe point out instances.

But I'm sorry you think I've been a thinly-veiled dick in this. I honestly can't see how; nobody else has said anything about it (yet). I've been accused of being this and that simply for stating my opinions which I believe could improve the USA's current situation. So I ask again, please point out instances where you believe I've been a dick and/or on my high horse.

I'm not going to bother going back through everything you've ever participated in regarding the topic of firearms in America. It's a waste of my time and you wouldn't change your mind or behavior were I to point them out. When the topic is discussed you seem to go out of your way to be aggressive just to elicit responses from the opposition. You paint the majority of Americans to be braindead hicks that love guns and are fine with seeing people murdered. It's not just you, though, as others here are just as vitriolic in their criticisms.

It's much the same as seeing a discussion following a violent terrorist attack by a religious fundamentalist devolve into ridiculous emotionally charged bickering between edgy atheists and conservative hacks. It gets old.

I'm saying that just because a drug is legal and is sold, it is not necessarily safe for use. And that personally I would like to avoid being a guinea pig for new medicines, based on big pharmas track record.

You are aware that the medicine you consume when you go to the doctor had to go through extensive medical testing, right?

You do realize that most medicines undergo years worth of clinical trials before they're put on the market right?

Right?

Stops copies me

Edited December 17, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Raven]

I'm not going to bother going back through everything you've ever participated in regarding the topic of firearms in America. It's a waste of my time and you wouldn't change your mind or behavior were I to point them out. When the topic is discussed you seem to go out of your way to be aggressive just to elicit responses from the opposition. You paint the majority of Americans to be braindead hicks that love guns and are fine with seeing people murdered. It's not just you, though, as others here are just as vitriolic in their criticisms.

It's much the same as seeing a discussion following a violent terrorist attack by a religious fundamentalist devolve into ridiculous emotionally charged bickering between edgy atheists and conservative hacks. It gets old.

I wouldn't expect you to look beyond this thread for my content.

While it's true I probably wouldn't change my mind on the subject, I do not post in the hope of a response. Neither do I believe my posting is aggressive, and the posts I do type are definitely not out of my way since if they were, I wouldn't bother posting in the first place since I'm a lazy fucker when it comes to posting.

And when I post, it is not my intention to paint Americans as "braindead hicks". I have nothing at all against America or its people. But I do feel strongly against weapons being so easily available, no matter the location. It just so happens these mass shootings are more often than not done on American soil, thus reaches British news much easier. Just because I think they should do something about gun laws after having so many instances over many years, that means I think most Americans are "braindead hicks"? No.

And I know that there are vast amounts of people on the USA who would also want their gun laws tightened. I am offended that you seem to think that I think Americans are fine with seeing people murdered. I can't think of an instance where I have mentioned anything of the sort or even conveyed such a thought through my posts. If that's the impression you're getting from me, then that's your problem. I'm not going to be sorry for my posting style and attitude towards these lax gun laws while the bodies of 20 kids are lying in a morgue.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Raven