Kysafen Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Because MU isn't broken as any other class. And berserker/hero totally don't trivialize Warrior. Barst is only curbstomping normal mode and maybe H1. Even then he's not the best unit in the game. Explain how is that a good thing for Swordmasters when everybody can do it and take more hits to boot. It'd be an advantage for Swordmasters because they inherently have higher skill and their weapon type inherently has a generally high hit rate (excluding Blades), and can therefore dodge and hit more, making up for their low attack strength with their high critical hit rate. Swords are supposed to be characterized by a higher hit rate, but generally lower attack strength in comparison to lances and axes. This is thrown out the window with Shin Monshou's hit calculations and the idiotic Devil Sword/Axe that can still easily hit a Swordmaster. And why would a luck-based thing be reliable to begin with. The same reason why it's a good idea in FE6 to send Chad up against the pirates in Chapter 4: Because even though they have a possibility to hit, it's not a probability. I generally consider 0-45% hit rate an acceptable margin for characters to dodge. It was a reliable tactic then, and it should've been designed that way now, especially so if the developers decided to implement the Weapon Triangle, a system that, in Chapter 1 of the first Fire Emblem that American audiences were exposed to, could decide whether or not a unit would be hit or not. Now when you have Tomahawks with 80% hit rates, you have no reason to send a Sword user with 20 speed up against it, because you know they're going to end up hitting with at least 50% anyway. Snip Cool maxspeed lategame cherry picking, bro. Give me some early-mid game <45 hit rates without Drill Grounds/Arena abusing and maybe I might actually take you seriously. I know its intentional that the AI prioritizes damage above all else, but its still hilarious (especially considering earlier games' AI didn't do this) What's really hilarious is how FE4's AI sucks so much for all the times they could've put in the coup de grace for my units in my playthrough, but didn't. At least Shin Monshou knows that you're just going to spam a healbot, anyway. Edited January 16, 2013 by Kysafen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinnidy Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Why do you bother with making yourself look worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kysafen Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Why do you bother with making yourself look worse My gripe with SD/SM is because dodging is unreliable, making the myrmidon class just as for their low attack power. Yes, swordmasters can dodge, but until they're at least 20/1 promoted the myrmidon's only redeeming factor is doubling, not dodging, something that looks laughable from a design standpoint. I haven't played any other FE where I could have a sword user in a forest approached by an axe wielder and have my unit have a 70% chance of getting hit before. And the reason I said that fighters/warriors were "broken" is because their main draw is their sheer attack power and high HP growth, and even though I don't rely on them to dodge a hit as much, their role of giving and being able to take damage remains the same in both the GBA and DS series. The myrmidon class, on the other hand, got shafted, because their high speed also meant that they could dodge a lot more frequently than other units on average, but now with current dodge calculations in addition to axe hit rates, that advantage is, in your words, "less reliable". And again, it's only "not rendered null" once they're promoted and near/maxed out speed. Whatever. I've made my statement. Edited January 16, 2013 by Kysafen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinnidy Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Just a heads up: we're not on Gamefaqs or Youtube. First, learn what really affects dodge in DS FEs' formula. Second, try not to miss the point people are making while hammering the same disproved thing over and over. Third, balance has always shifted in Fire Emblem games, and the GBA games don't have as good a balance as you claim them to have. Have a nice day and adios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) It'd be an advantage for Swordmasters because they inherently have higher skill and their weapon type inherently has a generally high hit rate (excluding Blades), and can therefore dodge and hit more, making up for their low attack strength with their high critical hit rate. Swords are supposed to be characterized by a higher hit rate, but generally lower attack strength in comparison to lances and axes. This is thrown out the window with Shin Monshou's hit calculations and the idiotic Devil Sword/Axe that can still easily hit a Swordmaster. The same reason why it's a good idea in FE6 to send Chad up against the pirates in Chapter 4: Because even though they have a possibility to hit, it's not a probability. I generally consider 0-45% hit rate an acceptable margin for characters to dodge. It was a reliable tactic then, and it should've been designed that way now, especially so if the developers decided to implement the Weapon Triangle, a system that, in Chapter 1 of the first Fire Emblem that American audiences were exposed to, could decide whether or not a unit would be hit or not. Now when you have Tomahawks with 80% hit rates, you have no reason to send a Sword user with 20 speed up against it, because you know they're going to end up hitting with at least 50% anyway. It worked for those FEs. That doesnt mean that dodging system is right and FEDS dodging is wrong. If dodging is unreliable, then I have a suggestion for you... STOP RELYING ON IT AND STOP COMPLAINING Also, 45% hit is still very high and it has a probability to hit. Cool maxspeed lategame cherry picking, bro. Give me some early-mid game <45 hit rates without Drill Grounds/Arena abusing and maybe I might actually take you seriously. I showed you how swordmasters are very well capable of dodging, maybe not on midgame or whatever. BUT THEY CAN unlike what youre saying. What's really hilarious is how FE4's AI sucks so much for all the times they could've put in the coup de grace for my units in my playthrough, but didn't. At least Shin Monshou knows that you're just going to spam a healbot, anyway. What are you even arguing here? If dodging is unreliable, why not assume the attack will hit and prepare for it? You know, like everyone good at FE does? Edited January 19, 2013 by BASEDRyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 What are you even arguing here? If dodging is unreliable, why not assume the attack will hit and prepare for it? You know, like everyone good at FE does? but but....that's TOO HARD (besides, when have SMs ever been "good" at combat relative to paladins/fliers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 The only class that seems underpowered in this game is Generals. They're back to having Bad Res, Truly atrocious speed, mediocore power, and Paladins/DracoKnights can match them in defense. They have their uses in making characters grow a certain way or reclassing promoted units to do a specific task, but they can't stand equal endgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Yes, swordmasters can dodge, but until they're at least 20/1 promoted the myrmidon's only redeeming factor is doubling, not dodging, something that looks laughable from a design standpoint You say this like it's a bad thing. Swordmaster has the best offense in the game (arguably beaten out by Berserker, except oops there's no good axe users in the game other than MU, plus Zerker has 1 less Move), and basically also have the best defense in the game since after a certain point everyone is being 2-3 shot anyway so you might as well get dat avoid up Also, here's some Lunatic dodging Also also: some loser who isn't a Swordmaster Like, I don't know what more you want from the class. Yeah it kind of blew in FESD other than as a "Hey I don't use swords but really want to ORKO with Armorslayer/Wyrmslayer" class, but hey: Warriors have been shit the entire series. Edited January 22, 2013 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Warriors were good in FE5. Basilio seems pretty rad in FE 3DS and can be reclassed into Hero/Berserker/some bow-using class if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Warriors were good in FE5. Basilio seems pretty rad in FE 3DS and can be reclassed into Hero/Berserker/some bow-using class if you wish. You mean Dagda and Marty? Even there, I felt the enemy only Berserker class was better due to innate wrath(which was extremely overpowered in FE5). I feel the Tellius games is the only time Warriors have been good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Warriors were good in FE5. Basilio seems pretty rad in FE 3DS and can be reclassed into Hero/Berserker/some bow-using class if you wish. whoa what Basilio comes way too late to ever do anything substantial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.