Balcerzak Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Okay, so, due to a recent resurgence of interest in the game, and seeing that there's no small amount of familiarity with it here among a certain subset of users here, I figured the time was ripe for this. As a note, it looks like the most recent save prior to this was 10/17/09, though I'm sure I've wiped/reinstall/wiped/etc. but I have never attempted another point run since this many ages ago. This is partly because (as you will see) my first points run was highly effective, if very highly flawed. I am aiming for the nice round maximum score of 300 points this time, though I am not sure if it is achievable. [spoiler=preamble/theorycraft] Being that this is an EXTREME run, I will be savescumming like a boss, I have a fairly tight idea of what my action flag plan needs to be for about half the game, and your input, though welcome and I will certainly debate the fuck out of it with you, it will likely be entirely disregarded for the purposes of this run, unless you have pointed out something so mindblowingly awesome that I overlooked that my hat will permanently be off to you. Also being that this is a points run, the only sane choice is 5 STAR DIFFICULY on KILL THE MONKEY. Allow me to first outline all of the bonuses I will be selecting, and then mention which of these bonuses are actually vital, useful, or simply because I already almost have more points than God and simply felt like spending them Absolutely Vital Tier: Mouri House bonus Takeda House bonus Can kill Toukichirou Elina Morita Ai Popularity Staff Underworld Clock Protection Paper Head-gold Statue Half-gold Statue All-gold Statue Gold +10000 Action Fan+1 Operation Permit Set NP +3 NP +3 NP +3 Strange Quick Bug Ridiculously Useful: Rance's Love Turban Kurosaki Ichiya Makutsudou Ouka Toki Natsumi Papa Hasuma Kanae Takakura Kamei (alias) Guts Armor Negoshi Eita Nice to Have: Exclusive Nurse Dragonfly Cutter Ryuuguu Sword Power Golden Bear Bunny Mask Pain-point Helm Field Battles Weekly How to Seige Castles Charm of the Immortal Fox Demon Eh Why Not: Everything not listed. What this means in plain English is, unless you have ~185 points already, you likely are not fit to pull off something of this magnitude. You could make a good first effort though, and probably break the 200 barrier by coming close, unless you simply can't cut the mustard in some of the enemy castle battles. Absolutely, under no conditions can you take the One-Eyed House Bonus, even if you've got it just sitting there begging to be used. That prevents you from getting the +10 points for beating the Youkai king condition, and I am pretty damn certain that having Omachi (and the rest of his wives) available from the start will not save you that many turns in conquering Japan. (We should already be on par to wiping out all enemy resistance by turn 44 or so. The other 10-15 turns we need to spend working on our character clears.) In fact not only are we getting the Defeat Youkai king achieve, but we're actually going to aim for all of the bonuses. ...except Orochi. Fuck me, I had enough struggle beating him on my "take all the time in the world" playthroughs, so unless you guys know some magic-bullet way to plow through his nightmare dungeon and take him out... IF YOU DO, PLEASE SPEAK UP. I may need to include it in my plans. You probably do not want to select the Uesugi house for reasons of Rance winning battles against Kenshin solo is convenient (though short-lived). I have no idea how things would change if you do select it, probably not much. Your early game NP deficit will be higher and you will be under a money crunch longer, so it is not recommended by me, though maybe I'll experiment at some point in the future when I get crazy again. Similarly you probably do not want to select the Houjou house bonus for concerns of $. Also, if you lack a Diviner for your Operation permits, when you capture Ran, she will easily have 1000 troops, and fill that void until you need to fire her (hopefully ASAP). Absolutely do not take the Additional Characters bonus. Gekkou and Shizuka are useless to you. Probably a detriment by taking up precious start of turn events. One thing you absolutely need to remember for a run like this are the two vital lists. A list of people who cannot be character cleared, and a list of people who cannot acquire the End-game Points Passive skill. I don't actually have a comprehensive list for the second one (I don't think), and I may have flubbed the first one (but I don't think so), so perhaps this is where you people contribute. [spoiler=the lists]People who cannot be character cleared: Isoroku Kenshin Shizuka Ouka Toki Kouhime Takakura Kamei Ran People who cannot get endgame points bonus: Naoie Ai The Takeda 4 Mouri Teru Mouri Motonari Daidouji Komatsu The One-Eye girls Hasuma Kanae Niwa Nagahide Ashikaga Choushin Rizna Tamagusha Fuuka Gekkou Honda Tadatsuku Ii Naomasu Agireda Kuge Kiyoko Senhime Sakakibara Haniwa Nyorai Himiko Hattori Hanzou Andou Kyuuri This is not to say you can't hire and use these people. Just... don't get too attached to them, as you'll have to fire them eventually. Holy shit, I am too long-winded and rambly. In addition to my lovely theory-crafting, tone-setting, and conditions-laying prelude, for the first update I will present to you the entirety of the Hara Campaign. [spoiler=Update 1] Day 1: You beat the prologue battle, and unless you fucked up really bad your troops will all be healed by next turn anyway so :shrug: We get three fans to use, one of which is completely vital, and the others just clear events out of the way for the start of turn auto-events I think. Action Flag 1: Action Flag 2: Action Flag 3: It is potentially worthwhile to instead go on a Botan Hunt on Day 1 here, it's really kind of a gamble. On the one hand we do need 60 total hunting points to get a Great Treasure. Each Owari hunt is 10 points, each Sado hunt is 20. However to go on Sado hunts I believe you need both Kenshin and Ai in your party, and they only spawn every like... 4-6 turns or something. I chose the Visit Sill event, and perhaps this was a bad call, but at the worst it is only a 1/4 chance to reduce our score by 1, and it doesn't impede getting our all-important fourth action fan ASAP (the goal here is to call it in as bonus on Turn 24, so that means I need 160 SAT gain in 71 Action fans, requiring a massive nearly 2.25 SAT per action fan... yowzers. Granted, this doesn't take into factor the scripted start of turn SAT Ups, but still...), so I am not terribly bothered. BEFORE YOU GO AHEAD AND HIT ENDTURN THERE ARE VITAL OTHER THINGS THAT NEED DOING SO LISTEN UP. You absolutely need to put the Popularity Staff onto Katsuei and increase his troop recruits to 499. No two ways about it. Also, you can consider firing all of the troops but one on Mitsuhide, and the Takeda and Extra Character tacticians. Their main powers come from their tacticsy things, and if they die and fuck things up, you can savescum out of it until you get around to dismissing them entirely. You will need the cash from this soon, but it is not immediate. You do absolutely need to make sure your *gold Statues are equipped on somebody anybody, and also equip/use the rest of your items as you see fit. My picks: Guts Armor on Baba Shouen. Goddamn if that doesn't make him invincible for the first half of the game. Dragonfly Cutter on Teru. Bitch'll cut anybody even harder on top of her Counterattack2 passive (which sadly means she won't stay for end-gaming). Protection Paper on a footman. Any footman, and right now honestly Turban fills the job better than Maeda, despite having shitty All-Guard, due to an existent defense stat. Golden Bear on Morita Ai. I find it helps bolster her offense to reasonably respectable levels. Bunny Mask on Kiku. I don't actually know if this or the Ninja hood thing is actually a better choice for damage reduction, I haven't done any tests, and don't know the formulas. Strange Quick Bug on Chinu. Basically a must for getting off poison in any kind of timing. (Alternately I could easily see a case for putting it on Elina for almost immediate All-Guard Shikigami, or just quicker Shikigami in general.) Ryuuguu Sword on Yamagata. I also gave all my StatBook2 to Yamagata because those all 8 stats were just too sexy, even though I know I'm not going to keep him, and I probably should have saved them for Rance (post-Elite troops). Day 2: Action Flag 1: Always declare war with your most useless negotiators. Equip Negoshi Eita if you have to. Action Flag 2: You must use Loot command on Teru once during this battle. (You do not get more gold by using it more than once.) I probably fucked up the timing, and Rance nearly got killed, but it's all good. Successful capture. Ideal with Niwa out there and his Defeated Warrior Hunt you could get multiple captures here (I sometimes see it even without him), so perhaps I should have save-scummed harder, but I guess I wasn't in the mood. Also, perhaps this is a good time to talk about the "Have sex with 300 women" goal that Rance has. You can keep track of that in his Ero-diary. Here's a before and after of the battle we were just in. In addition to the scripted scenes you get where you're "treated" to Rance's exploits, anytime he is deployed in battle and enemy female commanders are captured, he adds +1 to his tally. I've also heard it applies if they are killed as well. I should pull up my savescums and check, also take a peek at if anything happens under just ordinary annihilation. Furthermore, there is some reasonable bonus everytime you conquer a province when Rance is deployed in the final battle. The final way I know of in order to sex more women is to collect levies. Results may or may not be random on those last two, more research is required. ...sorry, got on a tangent there. Also kind of a misogynistic note there, but that's bound to happen from time to time. Action Flag 3: Katsuie must be deployed in this battle. This +12 troop gain is KEY. I love abusing Assassinate. Expect to see much of this. Another commander captured, looking good. After battle, you'll get an affection up assigned at random to one of the commanders who participated in battle. (If that commander is already sitting at 7 affection, you get nothing. That blows.) If they're easy battles and you don't mind scumming a bit more than usually, try to make sure they go to people who can use them. It helps cut down on Jaws screens, Expert Drums, Kannou Scrolls, and SenriQ Cups that you need to use in the long run generally. That said, there are probably exceptions to this rule of thumb. Sometimes if a character has a scripted talk event that takes precedence over the Talk at 7 Hate/Normal/Trust and will cause the affection to wrap around without the higher level being granted, or some other bullshit. Just... be careful. Probably the best number to get someone to is 4, easily solved by one application of a SAT bonus. Enemy Phase: With a 1-2 from Baba and Chinu the big man goes down. I apply some Healing just to save on $ Unbelievable. Captured 2 of these nobodies. Cannot argue with that, no way, no how. Day 3: Action Flag 1: You must use Loot command on Teru once during this battle. (You do not get more gold by using it more than once.) My luck is at an all-time high right here. I honestly have no clue what decides which battles you find items after. Savescumming only seems to affect the quality of the item, changing between Jaws/Expert Drum/etc. or Attack/Intelligence/etc. textbooks. Lucked out here. BEFORE DOING ACTION FLAG 2 THE FOLLOWING STEP IS NECESSARY Boost Katsuie up to 988 troops. This is why you need to fire those Tacticians' down to 1 unit apiece like I mentioned before. Unless maybe you want to fire the musketeers or some other dudes. This is also why Teru has been looting up a storm and Katsuie has been making sure to battle. We will be getting our first Operation Permits in action starting by Day 4. That's fucking huge, guys. No lie. One action fan saved a turn that you're at war (which should be always). Take the Popularity Wand off of Katsuie now as well, give it to anybody you like. I can see valid arguments for 3 different units getting it here: A cavalry unit, to make visiting the Tebasaki ranch with 3000 total cavalry easier to manage. Kiku to bolster your ninjas in case you have trouble catching one, you may have to have a temporary BP user (better than no BP user). You definitely want her back in the fight ASAP though. Elina to bolster your diviners in case you have trouble catching one, etc. etc. If we hadn't fired all our tacticians one of them may have also been an option, but frankly, they were just SOL based on their class. Also, we'll not be keeping any of them until the end, so their +troops will not count toward our glorious 30k (also a strike against the cavalry). Action Flag 2: Hara once again falls to a good 1-2, now I worry about his mooks. Shouting Charge is great moreso for the +Morale effect than the +damage effect, though that's not bad either, as the +Morale pales compared to say a cavalry or tactician's skill, in my experience. This battle isn't difficult enough to need poison, so Chinu is just healing to save costs on replenishment. Did I mention I love Assassinate. I probably could have gotten away without it, but... I think I forgot to capture Yamagata using his Battle Rating Up 2 skill (when you're savescumming this will tend to happen), so here's a clip of him using it in one of the previous attempts. Chinu is healing again. And the fight is won with another glorious lady prisoner. My prison is currently stocked with 8 commanders. This is a fabulous start. I'll need as many as possible for forever. Females preferred for choices of commanders, but everybody is welcome in my prisons. Everybody. Action Flag 3: Please come, Rizna. Rance needs you. Enemy Phase: Make war not love... wait that came out wrong. I'll see you next update with the Ashikaga campaign. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nano Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm at least 90% sure that the maximum you can achieve is 323, any more would involve the carnival bonus points and hence require saving 12+ fans on the basis of 323, which is impossible. I have seen a logged game with 322 points and it required insane luck, and 323 is even worse. This is all without counting the +20 from routes. Really though, anything more than 300 is pretty crazy already. I think my best attempt was 295 and I was killing myself. Good luck. You'll need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I've always wondered what this game looks like when played by somebody competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 This should be entertaining to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solanum Tuberosum Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 yes thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) I'm at least 90% sure that the maximum you can achieve is 323, any more would involve the carnival bonus points and hence require saving 12+ fans on the basis of 323, which is impossible. I have seen a logged game with 322 points and it required insane luck, and 323 is even worse. This is all without counting the +20 from routes. Really though, anything more than 300 is pretty crazy already. I think my best attempt was 295 and I was killing myself. Good luck. You'll need it. This is very, very interesting and useful knowledge to have, to be perfectly honest. I assumes the 323 involves a successful Orochi defeat? And I can't possible see any way that the Carnival points could possibly help. They show up every 4 turns, are worth only 3 points, and don't show up until turn 63 or so. You should be completed before turn 60, meaning the best the first one could do is offset the time spent waiting for it to show up. I'm honestly very very curious about the math here 200 base 58 for character clears on 29 commanders (MAX) 58 for EGP for 29 commanders (MAX) +10 for Orochi +10 for Youkai +10 for Treasures +10 for 30k troops +10 for 300 women = 366 possible If I'm skipping Orochi, my max is 356 I don't honestly think I can do it faster than 56 turns with all the convoluted bullshit involved for clearing commanders, and trying to get up my # of women slept with. To get a 323 that means you're completely done with the game by turn 43... Turn 44 for that one log you said you saw. I'm... very very impressed, and now feel a little deflated in my own skills, to be honest. While I'm usually ready to conquer the last province by Turn 44, there's just so much administrative work that... wow. Did the bastard get SenriQ Cups every battle or something? Edit: Also, very good work on your 295 clear yourself. With your +20 routes bonus, that buys you everything in the game, so going any higher than that is just showing off. I was hoping to show off a little... but now I'm not really going to do that well in that department. Edited January 21, 2013 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Y'know, if there was a version of this without the naked people, I'd probably give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Do not be alarmed by the speed of updates, I already actually have much of this played out, it's just a matter of sorting the screenshots, uploading, and then spending too many words describing what's going on. When I was sicker than a dog this weekend I had little else I really felt up to doing, and it's kind of surprising how much progress you can make on a run in a very short time when you know pretty much precisely what you're doing and don't have to spend additional time faffing around trying to figure out the next step, and can waste all of your time scumming for the appropriate results. I had recently started, attempted, and gave up on a similar run maybe a week or two ago when Eail first mentioned in IRC Ether had gotten him into the game, and that laid most of the groundwork for this effort. I did draw on ideas from the two publicly available guides on the Alicesoft wiki, but I've peppered in more than my share of adjustments as well, so it's not straight up copying/plagiarism. The huge diversion from the 24 Turn plan posted will not really start until turn 11, I believe, because that's when they foolishly go and conquer Iga. My '09 run was for the most part based on the at-the-time only available guide for the 30 Turn plan, but again, I deviated here and there I'm sure. This current plan should obsolete both of them, but perhaps I'm getting too full of myself, as just revealed by nano. There are people who can apparently plan this out much better than I. I wouldn't be surprised if some amazing 20 turn or better plan was necessary for that 322 point run. Also, going back through my actions, I am seeing some wasted fans here and there, so things could definitely still be tightened up. ANYWAY... back to the game. I present to you, the entirety of the Ashikaga Campaign. [spoiler=Update 2]Day 4: I like to make sure to take full advantage of the "Arrange Commanders" option present in the list. Always always put my BP users down at the very bottom so I don't accidentally cock up and use them for something else. Anyway, here we see Katsuie getting healed up to full strength and being given his permit (he was greyed out last turn due to attacking to get up to the magic number, so couldn't receive items). Action Fan 1: We go ahead and attack into the first province in Kyo. Attacking Kyo first instead of Mamushi Oil Fields is vital. If you conquer the Oil Fields, not only do you expose yourself to Takeda (who are at war with you because of the House Bonus), but I believe you lose out on Nekohime SAT bonus. Or the Nonohime one. OR something like that. I remember getting frustrated with this in the past, and have never cared to go back and find out what went wrong. The first battle is piss-easy, so make sure to capture a couple of commanders. Action Fan 2: This battle actually has something a little interesting going on. We have Baba just Standby and do nothing here. Due to a quirk in the Guts Armor mechanics, he can still lose troops when he goes attacking on the offense, but if we let enemies just throw themselves upon him, he will take absolutely zero damage. Witness. Grab a few more commanders for your prisons. Action Fan 3: This is the big end-of-province castle assault, and it's a bit of a challenge, actually. I take out the archer in the upper rear with a quick 1-2 from Kiku and Yamagata. I think without Onrush she had like 14 troops left and I raged a little. I like to apply the buff array of buffs onto Rance to make sure he has a defense buff for better survivability. If Rance dies in an assault it's game over, just reload right now. Anyone else can be annihilated and potentially not be Killed and you may still win the castle if your Battle Rating is good enough, but not Rance. Also, you can see Turban is doing a shitty job at protecting, being down to just 20% guard already, and I'm worried about that fat stack of warriors the enemy has. Even though you can see on the timeline they won't attack until after the poison halves their number, if 550 of them hit an unbuffed Rance... Even with the +defense it will be dicey. Now seems as good a time as any to assassinate this fat stack of footman. I want to capture them. You can always use more footman. Just adding some safety cushion to my Battle Rating advantage here, nothing special. Just choose Standby. Let Sill heal a few troops, and call it a victory. Don't lose more foolishly throwing yourself at the enemy. I know this is hard for you Rance. Success. All my goals for this battle were accomplished. Plus an additional bonus. Just like the other commanders Rance is available for Affection increases. While getting him to 7 won't change his "feelings for Rance" level, it's still pretty damn useful for other reasons. Not a huge priority, but when he gets battle bonuses I will not turn them down. Katsuie goes off and independently conquers one of the outlying areas of the Oil Fields, just like desired. Enemy Phase: Ashikaga strikes back. You only actually need to defend if they're attacking the Oil Fields, but it's probably a good idea in general, just to get +troops for victories, +affection on commanders, +captures, and the potential to find neat swag like SenriQs. This battle wasn't difficult, and it's a good thing I didn't deploy a full load because they send another wave at me. This fight will get incredibly dicey, as I'm running low on good manpower (though I may have kept additional reserves, just in case of wave 3). Ouka is barely alive, so she has to use her skill that let's her avoid taking counterattack damage. The goal here is really to eliminate the enemy footsoldier's guard, otherwise I probably would have just used Standby. Also, I seem to have forgotten to cap a few images, but I believe how it went down was I then Assassinated the warrior stack after Ranmaru took a big hit and then simply stalled out. I get a SenriQ for my troubles. Here's a commander list at the start of turn so you can see the damages. Sorry about flubbing on the captures. Day 5: Action Flag 1: A repeat of my Elina + Baba Stall+Shikigami plan. This time with Niwa for Defeated Warrior Hunt, to decrease the amount of time spent scumming. Action Flag 2: The decisive Castle assault. Yamagata picks off a weak ninja in the backrow, no problems. A combination of the -1 Action flag from Onrush and an Assassination take care of the two pesky warrior units in the front row, all but ensuring Rance's survival. Padding on my Battle Rating buffer. Victory with a captured female commander. Action Flag 3: Working on unlocking the ability to declare war on the miko institute. One spare flag at a time. Now to a quick view of our prisons. Capturing 18 commanders at this stage is pretty damn amazing, and took its fair share of scumming, but it's also pretty damn important to do. Going to go right ahead and release 10 of them. I choose to release the males and people who have passive abilities as a priority, then females with extremely low troop counts. Why do I release prisoners from my dungeons you ask? Two reasons. The first is karma/superstition. Maybe it's just me, but I find the more full your prisons get, the harder it is to keep capturing new commanders. So I always try to strive a nice happy medium on how full my prisons get. The second reason is Every 5 prisoners you release AT THE SAME TIME will yield you a Happy Pokkuru item. This magical item will give any commander you give it to a +1 level boost. You will without exception be giving all of these to Rance when the time comes, and he needs a boatload of them. At rough guestimate 10-15, meaning you're going to have to release 50 enemy commanders if you want things to work out for you, and your not having to waste time/actions elsewhere. Why does Rance's level need to be so high, you may ask? Two words. Inukai. Masamune. More on that in the actually relevant segments. Remember to heal up Katsuie so he can take action against Takeda. Enemy Phase: I let the Hanny's pass because I believe this is a requirement if you ever want to be able to recruit Nozomi. They will declare war on you later anyway without your needing to waste a flag on it, so it really doesn't matter. Takeda attacks us. This first fight is a pushover, but perhaps because I deployed too many good troops. This next fight looks more troublesome. I attempt to assassinate to even the odds a little. It fails, so I engage in some emergency morale measures. Miko Healing, because I'm still chronically and dangerously short on $. I have my monk give actions back to my ninja. So he has another shot at assassinate. This time it works. (Repeated attempts almost always go smoother. Rarely will an enemy survive 2 attempts, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone survive a full course of 3.) A rough battle sees us with a victory, though sadly no capture. Still, all in all a success. Next update will feature Takeda heavily. I don't know if there will be enough space to finish it all, but we'll just have to wait and see. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Watching and taking notes as much as possible. I'm actually learning a lot here for what to do in general, let alone a points run. It's also nice to see people that won't declare you love and support rape for just enjoying the tactics bit. Quick question though, would anyone be interested in seeing a Free-Mode playthrough as well? I'd probably be playing as the Shimazu Family or Dokuganryuu Family just for fun. Hell I guess a request to see the desired family playthrough wouldn't be so bad either Edited January 22, 2013 by Eail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Free mode's with Shimazu or Dokuganryuu is basically godmode. I'd be much more interested in seeing a free mode run with Hara, tanegashima, ashikage or other weak faction. Edited January 22, 2013 by Daigoji Excellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Uesugi fair enough, if not I could do Takuga. I'm not as good as Bal yet sadly Still better than Furetchen though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Uesugi should be pretty interesting to see, considering you'd be fighting the Takeda and Dokuganryuu right from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eail Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Noted, gonna have to think about this one a bit before I make my move. Mouri could be interesting too because you get to have the big man himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Glad people are finding the run various degrees of entertaining and useful. It's way rewarding to know that things are actually being followed pretty closely, because otherwise it's a lot of effort for very little payoff. But! Onto what you've likely come for. The entirety of the Takeda campaign! [spoiler=Update 3]Day 6: The start of turn event here is the scripted Suzume "assassination" attempt, which increases Rance's SAT score by 5. ...moving right along we have Action Fan 1: I don't need to say much here, I don't think, this team set-up is becoming old hat. Anyway, I perhaps should have scummed to try to get the foot soldier, but I didn't. Action Fan 2: This is partly me being ballsy, and partly the fact that on top of conquering 3 provinces with troops this turn, I also need to be prepared to defend twice, and wanting to conserve. Motonari gets hurt because of this, but I eke out a BR victory. Action Fan 3: I had to savescum a ton on this Castle battle, so the images of the fight I had to kind of scavenge from multiple attempts (got sick of capturing every move every time and all). Forgive the sloppy, but it's bound to happen. Absolutely ignore the assassinated unit, what you need to see here is the Onrush on the 2 action fan Cavalry in the back. This not only takes his troop count down to about half, minimizing his damage, it also means he only acts once, and then I can forget about him and be relatively safe. Then I go and assassinate this footsoldier, giving me free reign to pound on the cavalry unit in the front row. Why didn't I assassinate her directly, you ask? Well, I tried, but the footsoldier intercepted it. The ever popular, and practically vital Chinu tea-induced genocide. Rance and Yamagata pound the last of the front row into submission. Obviously Kurosaki has been doing the tactician's job in keeping the BR in my favor and the buffs distributed. The capture of the female cavalry unit is absolutely vital. You need to capture at least 3 cavalry units during the Takeda campaign, the more females the better. Katsuie moves out with his BP. Such a bro! Enemy Phase: It turns out on the scum attempt that I finally managed to capture a cavalry unit (sadly male), I only got attacked just the once. All that extra preparation for nothing, it seems. Oh well, you can never be too careful. Day 7: Today is a day to sit on our ass and wait, as far as battles are concerned. Action Fan 1: Kill the Monkey. Action Fan 2: This is a pre-requisite to getting to recruit Nozomi. I never will, because she's a pain in the ass to clear, actually, so this is a wasted flag. Combined with the Boar hunting I probably should have done earlier, that's half a turn I've squandered. Oops! I probably should have sexed a miko here or something. Maybe I'll revisit this and try to take out Orochi some time in the future... If I do, I'll post a shortlist skinny on the changes. Action Fan 3: Declare war on Tokugawa. While given the wasted fan above, and the fact that Shibata already took 1 of Kai's 3 provinces, you may ask why it may not simply be better to conquer them outright? Well, then you wouldn't be getting attacked on the enemy phase, and you'd have your battle permits sitting idle. Both of these are downright terrible. Katsuie will either attack Kai or Mikata. Both options are fine. I think this screencap lies, and in the successful savescum he actually conquers Mikada. If the Mikada takeover happens, turn 8 is Kai, Kai, action 3. If the Kai takeover happens, turn 8 is Mikada, Kai, action 3. NB: The Mikada, Kai order is vital. Tokugawa Phase: Baba+Elina Niwa+Rance (hoping for female captures for the list, but that doesn't happen) Takeda Phase: Did not capture Super Jockey. :( Killed some useless ninjas. Anway, surviving 4 enemy phase assaults is always kind of rough, so if you can't hack it, just scum until there's only like 3. You do need to defend everything. Well, unless Takeda attacks Shinano, but honestly you want to fight all Takeda possible to get your cavalry capture chances. Day 8: Action Fan 1: Apparently Baba isn't completely invincible. I blame that Attack buff on the swordsman there. Still, we capture a female tactician with reasonably high troop count. This is an amazing score, so there's no way I'm undoing it. Rakko is not actually next in line to be a battle permit user, we'd have to hire her too many troops, but she is on the list if I don't capture anyone better. Uruza + Popularity staff will take too long, plus we want her fighting in the field like the goddess she is. Action Fan 2: The castle assault. High priority target is to do as much damage to the diviner as possible so if she starts preparations I can kill her. My ninja will not be an option, she is too busy being tired out after assassinating this cavalry, which is also a monster threat. I warned you! I warned you about preparations! Success! Sadly much to my dismay, this female cavalry comes with a passive skill, unlike [kanji]kiku, so I can't keep her forever. Still, she will serve her purposes. [Not pictured: Chinu serving tea, and Kurosaki spreading disinformation.] Action Fan 3: BEFORE YOU CLICK END TURN IMPORTANT ADMINISTRATIVE TASKS. Fire Mitsuhide to free up 2 NP so that Rizna can autojoin next turn at the start-of-turn event. No point wasting fans on "Accept Reinforcement". A quick peek at my prisons. I think I waffle about before deciding not to release a group of 5 just yet. Still, we've captured another 8 or so in the latest war, not bad, and pretty near average I suppose. Battle Permits are go! Enemy Phase: Tokugawa hits like a truck. OW! Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Watching and taking notes as much as possible. I'm actually learning a lot here for what to do in general, let alone a points run. It's also nice to see people that won't declare you love and support rape for just enjoying the tactics bit. Quick question though, would anyone be interested in seeing a Free-Mode playthrough as well? I'd probably be playing as the Shimazu Family or Dokuganryuu Family just for fun. Hell I guess a request to see the desired family playthrough wouldn't be so bad either do hannys you woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nano Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) This is very, very interesting and useful knowledge to have, to be perfectly honest. I assumes the 323 involves a successful Orochi defeat? And I can't possible see any way that the Carnival points could possibly help. They show up every 4 turns, are worth only 3 points, and don't show up until turn 63 or so. You should be completed before turn 60, meaning the best the first one could do is offset the time spent waiting for it to show up. I'm honestly very very curious about the math here 200 base 58 for character clears on 29 commanders (MAX) 58 for EGP for 29 commanders (MAX) +10 for Orochi +10 for Youkai +10 for Treasures +10 for 30k troops +10 for 300 women = 366 possible If I'm skipping Orochi, my max is 356 I don't honestly think I can do it faster than 56 turns with all the convoluted bullshit involved for clearing commanders, and trying to get up my # of women slept with. To get a 323 that means you're completely done with the game by turn 43... Turn 44 for that one log you said you saw. I'm... very very impressed, and now feel a little deflated in my own skills, to be honest. While I'm usually ready to conquer the last province by Turn 44, there's just so much administrative work that... wow. Did the bastard get SenriQ Cups every battle or something? Edit: Also, very good work on your 295 clear yourself. With your +20 routes bonus, that buys you everything in the game, so going any higher than that is just showing off. I was hoping to show off a little... but now I'm not really going to do that well in that department. I forgot why carnival is relevant, and after rereading that log it seems that I remembered it wrong. It was relevant for a New Game Maximum Point game, which has a limit of 154+5 for sure. 322 has kind of reached a theoretical limit though with regard to how many fans you can devote on satisfaction and how many you can use on conquering areas and clearing characters. He managed 4 fans in 21 turns by the way, which was insane by itself. Even following his log I didn't manage 4 fans until turn 24 or something, because it's got so much luck involved. Everything and their mum needs to be lined up for a 322 clear. You need SenriQ Cups aplenty, random affection points have to go on the right characters, hot spring must not be in Iga, you need to capture random generics whenever possible for Orochi while still managing the necessary female generics, there must be a random action2 book in Owari or clam dungeon for Inukai, you must capture certain fixed female generics that start with normal affection, you must beat Orochi with an insanely weak squad, the list goes on and on. It's really not for anyone not bat-shit insane. Really, I'm kind of glad I could only manage 295. Your instinct is right, the capture rate drops as the prison fills up, and once you have 25 prisoners you can't capture generics anymore. Also, an easy way of getting a fast start is to actually not load up Katsuie, but Morita Ai instead. If you have her start with close to 500 troops you can get her up to permit range right away (use popularity staff for the barrier) and then capture a generic footsoldier. You'll have two permits to work with very quickly, saving a ton of fans. Naturally it also means much higher financial difficulties and trouble fighting off enemy waves. Good work so far, eagerly awaiting updates. Edited January 22, 2013 by nano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I was going to try to do both Tokugawa and Miko Institute here, but I ran out of space, so expect two closely spaced posts. [spoiler=Update 4a]Day 9: Rizna shows up and joins our army as a start-of-turn event, just as planned. (I was going to do the "just according to keikaku" meme, but considering she's actually a character in some routes that would just feel odd.) At some point I found a Defense Book. I give this shit to Rance to increase survivability. I highly urge you all to do the same. Action Fan 1: Uruza~ Please come and spend some quality time in JAPAN. Action Fan 2: Starting down Rizna's chain of events. Rizna can provide a significant source of SAT, which makes her an outstandingly better first choice than Kanami. Their combat potential is pretty equally abyssmal, as Rizna's speed isn't good, and on top of that Mages must have class modifiers meaning they'll practically never act more than once, and Kanami's raw stats are pretty balls. Action Fan 3: Here I'm spending time to go ahead and search for the Pearl Dungeon in Ise, the former Hara province. This will need to be done at some point, so I figured I might as well do it now. There's still two provinces in Mikawa, so I can't really capture it without wasting a fan, which I don't have a lot of spares of, plus there are still commanders from Tokugawa I vitally want to capture. Battle Permits~ Enemy Phase: Excellent start, way to assassinate that big guy with the scary attack buff. Assassinating that diviner too is pretty sweet. In points games, Suzume is pretty worthless for anything but assassinate, because she comes with so few troops and it would take forever to build her up to fighting strength. But assassinate... assassinate is always good, and I am pretty sure irrelevant of your troop stack size, or at least not heavily weighted. (Enemy troop stack size seems to come into account, though.) Capture successful. We were gunning for either Honda Tadakatsu or Ii Naomasa, because we need a warrior with 1k troops, just like nano was alluding to, for our next BP user. These jokers will be absolutely temporary, due to passive skills, but hey, so is Katsuie. Defensive fight 2! Assassinate fat footman stack... by accident. I was trying to kill Sakai Tadatsugu. It's all good, my monk gave my ninja more fans and the second assassination worked. Capture successful! Sakai is the second, and absolutely vital raccoon dog capture we were gunning for. He is one of the most easily cleared characters ever, starting off at Normal, and only needing to get to Trust. He can also be slapped with EGP, so he is totally a keeper. Day 10: Our prisons were getting way too full. I fixed that slightly, but probably ought to have fixed it more. Action Fan 1: The decisive castle battle vs Tokugawa! Kill his footman. Sakakibara just gets in the way and mucks everything up. Onrush, Onrush, Onrush. Tokugawa is too dangerous to use his action fans. With any luck he will waste one Charging, blow 2 doing a Full Power Warrior Attack into the Protection Paper, and then lose 2 to Yamagata's assaults. That would be absolutely ideal. (The order on Charging and FPWA is probably better off reversed, now that I think about it.) If you've been paying attention to that top warrior's hitpoint totals, you'll easily see these shots were from different scums. Anyway, battle complete. Capture successful. We don't actually need the tanuki that loves to sleep, but I will never turn someone away from my prisons. What's this! OH SHIT did that hurt. It's all good though. Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: ADMINISTRATION IN PROGRESS, PLEASE WAIT WARMLY. Goodbye, Natsumi's Papa Hello, Honda. Side note, you'll see two very huge Negotiations in one round leaves me pretty weak on the defense. It's okay, the Miko's probably won't attack me twice. Battle Permit. Enemy Phase: Yoink, yoink. You'll notice that I am using Teru here when she should be greyed out. Also the observant among you will notice that this screenshot jumps almost 150 into the future. We~eeell, I initially kind of fucked up, and put Rance's Love on Rizna this turn, one turn too early, and didn't realize it until like turn 17, and I had to rewind time. I used a different set of negotiators, and I think I remembered to equip Negoshi Eita, so that should help explain the discrepancy. Actually take that back. Apparently I was a dope and completely forgot to re-Hire Honda. Well, it's probably for the best, I guess, I didn't need 2 BPs for the Yamatai campaign anyway, and this allowed me to soak the second attack... Barely. When I actually do hire him, it will look like (I apologize for the kind of clusterfuck here, but I promise I wasn't any more pleased with it than you when I had to backtrack 6 turns.) Anyway, approaching image threshold, so Mikos in the next, quickly forthcoming, update. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) [spoiler=Update 4b]Day 11: Action Fan 1: Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: Kai dungeon is probably the single most important source of satisfaction ever. Anyway, I forgot to screencap a few things here, at least in their proper orders. One is the obligatory BP action. Then there's the re-hiring of Honda I mentioned earlier. Also, I know I said last turn it was one turn to early to Rizna with love... it was actually 2 turns to early, so don't do that just yet either. After I fucked up once, I decided I'd just do some tests and spam end turns to see when her purple events activate, and make sure I got the timing down just right. Enemy Phase: Fend off the Mikos and grab a couple of prisoners. Houjou decides they don't like the way I operate. I decide I like them saving me fans from having to declare war myself. Day 12: The decisive castle battle! Depending on which of the Yamatai named generics show up (Souma, Himiko, Goemon) this fight could be piss-easy, or balls-breakingly hard. In the first run, where I fucked up Rizna, Souma was there and I needed maybe a half-dozen or more scums to figure out a strategy. This time, I think I got it in one. Maybe two to fix captures. This time it was simply spamming Battle Rating, serving tea, and eating Natori's Miko Storm 2 (which does not hurt that bad with small maximum troop sizes like mine, to be honest.) Conquering the Miko Institute leads to plot reasons granting Rance a free Affection boost bonus. Make full use of this. Rance needs levels badly. Natori, you work for me, now. Notice my clever use of Negoshi Eita. Gotta keep clearing out those prisons! Action Fan 2: Kyo dungeon is the third and final dungeon I plan to visit in this run, and that's simply to unlock some Suzume SAT, and its own free SAT. Action Fan 3: SAT Toss Rance's Love on Rizna. Now this is a cursed item, meaning we can't remove it, but this also means we don't have to worry about wasting important +Affection items on her either, because we're not keeping her to endgame. When we fire her, we'll get Rance's Love back. It's a win-win situation. BPs: You need both of your BP to target the same province. Either Saitama, or Edo, it doesn't really matter, but don't let them go separate ways. Enemy Phase: Try to assassinate female generic warrior BP user, get intercepted by footman. >:( Monk lets me do it again. Success. I had to go through and do it on a different scum, because I lost the second Houjou attack. This time I kept Morita Ai in reserve. Because I needed her here. There, all better. Next update will be the Houjou campaign, which is goddamn ridiculous long and also includes the Hanny campaign, so will probably need to be split up. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't know much about the Rance games, but I believe this is the one where you give the men sex changes so Rance can sleep with them? Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Haven't played this game precisely because of the naked people I keep hearing about, but it does look very interesting. Which brings me to this: Y'know, if there was a version of this without the naked people, I'd probably give it a try. There's also a Touhou fangame that plays like what appears to be a greatly simplied version of this, aptly named Sengoku Gensokyo. I've played that one and can attest that it has precisely zero naked people and lots of clashing art styles on character portraits. Maybe you'd be interested in trying that one out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) I forgot why carnival is relevant, and after rereading that log it seems that I remembered it wrong. It was relevant for a New Game Maximum Point game, which has a limit of 154+5 for sure. 322 has kind of reached a theoretical limit though with regard to how many fans you can devote on satisfaction and how many you can use on conquering areas and clearing characters. He managed 4 fans in 21 turns by the way, which was insane by itself. Even following his log I didn't manage 4 fans until turn 24 or something, because it's got so much luck involved. Everything and their mum needs to be lined up for a 322 clear. You need SenriQ Cups aplenty, random affection points have to go on the right characters, hot spring must not be in Iga, you need to capture random generics whenever possible for Orochi while still managing the necessary female generics, there must be a random action2 book in Owari or clam dungeon for Inukai, you must capture certain fixed female generics that start with normal affection, you must beat Orochi with an insanely weak squad, the list goes on and on. It's really not for anyone not bat-shit insane. Really, I'm kind of glad I could only manage 295. Your instinct is right, the capture rate drops as the prison fills up, and once you have 25 prisoners you can't capture generics anymore. Also, an easy way of getting a fast start is to actually not load up Katsuie, but Morita Ai instead. If you have her start with close to 500 troops you can get her up to permit range right away (use popularity staff for the barrier) and then capture a generic footsoldier. You'll have two permits to work with very quickly, saving a ton of fans. Naturally it also means much higher financial difficulties and trouble fighting off enemy waves. Good work so far, eagerly awaiting updates. I've always kind of meant to do a New Game high point run at some point, but just never got around to it. That would definitely have some room for Carnival(s) to be relevant. At first I wasn't quite sure you'd be able to do Morita at the same speed as Katsuie, because her troop limit is lower initially based on class, but it turns out it just involves not using her to attack, and waiting until after you've conquered Hara. You also have to sell nearly all your other units though, which is kind of a refreshing challenge. In comparison, it makes the run I'm displaying seem kind of like a stroll in the park. I fooled around on a new file up and until around Day 10-11, with a few changes here and there and it's definitely been nearly a full set of flags faster already. (This is the reason I didn't reply to it right away and skipped into an update.) I also tested Day 1 Boar Hunt over Day 1 Sill. The big downside to that is that it does indeed shift the auto-start of turn event order, meaning that Rizna will not self-recruit until Turn 10, which is a one turn delay which may prove relevant, as it would shift back all of your other reinforcements. That said, for a 21 Turn plan, my idea of abusing Magic for SAT is no longer relevant, so I honestly have no idea who to grab after Rizna. Probably still Uruza, and then maybe Maria because she comes with free Kasumi, but generic females may just be better options as they don't take as many fans to clear. The only downside is they all share a single Affection Up fan slot, meaning if one you've already cleared fills up again they could clog the line. (Pain in the ass, particularly because Morita and Elina have been around all game and naturally clear quicker.) But back to the Boar Hunts. I guess what this means then is you'll need to hire a shitty female generic and hope Shimazu steals her over Ai and all of your good female generics, to let you get the third Sado Boar hunt and save a flag that way. (Spoiler alert, I'm only making a big deal about this because I was initially "...okay I was going to fire her anyway" when they stole Ai, but then I could no longer boar hunt there.) Also, I'm sure there's a better way to deal with that bullshit then doing the Kurohime kidnap plan, because that's two flags down the drain and you only get 4/5s of a Happy Pokkuro for your efforts, but suffering through women theft seems like a necessity to get the Coke Bottle. I'm kind of curious where you go for your information, and I would love reading that log at some point, but I suppose for the integrity of this run, why don't you save sharing that until after I've completed things here. I don't know much about the Rance games, but I believe this is the one where you give the men sex changes so Rance can sleep with them? Or something like that. There is a Sex Change Temple in Amazon that you can use, but it only works M->F, and only on generic commanders not on the Game Report list. Edited January 23, 2013 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) The Houjou (and Hanny) campaign: [spoiler=Update 5a]Day 13: Since both of my BP users invaded Saitama, we go in after them and clean up. Action Fan 1: Action Fan 2: The castle assault Onrush on the 2-fan cavalry, Assassinate, etc. My standard playbook. This time it will be a double dose of AOE damage. Also, I may have just Onrushed that front row warrior, it is hard to make out. We capture a replacement for Katsuie. Apparently I was in a greedy mood and trying for the warrior stack too, or maybe just for all my men to be alive at the end. I am not entirely sure which. Action Fan 3: This is a Suzume SAT, getting her out of the way. We'll come back here latter for a Rizna SAT, because I believe that's required for the Sex Medicine dungeon drop to be enabled. Battle Permits: You want both to go after Edo. I guess Kasuza2000 is probably fine too, but, eh... Enemy Phase: I probably should have scummed this better, but whatever, it all works out. Day 14: Action Fan 1: This is a damn easy final castle, just FYI. Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: Battle Permits go after Kasuza Enemy Phase: Excellent, a high troop count female ninja unit. I was looking for one of you. Day 15: Start of turn event. Thank you, Zeth. Some administrative business. You'll see that Choukosabe-hime's NP Cost is 2 lower than Honda's, so Honda's gotta go. Action Fan 1: We meet Rizna, as I already mentioned previously. Action Fan 2: This takes a ridiculous amount of save-scumming. Not because the dungeon is hard, mind you, but because in 5 random drops, we need to collect 4 necessary items. That means at most one wasted on Ogre Bones or other bullshit. nano, are Ogre Bones even useful for anything? I honestly cannot remember. Anyway... This image was taken from a failed run, but the text and the item just was too hilarious not to share. The final item is always fixed to be a textbook, btw. Action Fan 3: Magic, I promise I won't make fun of your forehead this time. Administrative business: Enemy Phase: Houjou is probably attacking me at this point as well, but I'm no longer interested in defending, because Nanjou Ran will be summoning Suzaku and barbecuing my units. Day 16: Farewell, lolicon. Hello kunoichi. Action Fan 1: Action Fan 2: These are necessary for the Hanny conquer SAT Action Fan 3: Now that we have her items, Kaguyahime provides satisfaction. Battle Permits: Hanny Phase: Houjou Phase: Let Ran have her way with a province. More to come in next post. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) The Houjou and Hanny campaign continues. [spoiler=Update 5b]Day 17: Action Fan 1: I always forget Miko Storm 2 doesn't work on Hanny's. Oops. Don't even ask. Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: This is so that a Suzume event will happen during one of the Start-of-Turn segments. Enemy Phase: Ran falls to 3 back-to-back-to-back assassination attempts. Day 18: Just like I said, start of turn event. Action Fan 1: Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: Enemy Phase: Onrush Sailor Moon. Onrush her! That troop count is too much for you at this point. Victory. Comparatively easy. Day 19: Love 'em and leave 'em. I feel bad just saying that. I need room in my roster to hire Ran though, because I need her recruited before I take the last province, I think. Action Fan 1: I have dozens more of these, I really wanted to conquer a female diviner with high troops here. I think it's a scripted battle and I can't take any of them though. Action Fan 2: Action Fan 3: Battle Permits: Warning, incoming Pandas. Enemy Phase: Oh look, a high unit female diviner. Karma is good to me. Next update. Texas and Kenshin. Probably. We'll see what all fits. Edited March 2, 2015 by Balcerzak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Y'know, if there was a version of this without the naked people, I'd probably give it a try. Just out of interest, are you uncomfortable with the idea of sex in video games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Haven't played this game precisely because of the naked people I keep hearing about, but it does look very interesting. Which brings me to this: There's also a Touhou fangame that plays like what appears to be a greatly simplied version of this, aptly named Sengoku Gensokyo. I've played that one and can attest that it has precisely zero naked people and lots of clashing art styles on character portraits. Maybe you'd be interested in trying that one out? Finding somewhere that sold the game was an experience I never want to repeat again. Looks interesting. You're the best, Raykitty~! Just out of interest, are you uncomfortable with the idea of sex in video games? 1. Day job. 2. I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather look at besides naked chicks. Edited January 23, 2013 by eclipse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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