Zelda Wii U

[Anacybele]

I may have missed it, but what exactly do you hate about TWW.

Basically everything except for some of the story, a couple of the characters, and some of the music. And treasure chart hunting.

[Lord Raven]

Also, I don't hate TWW's graphics or SS's graphics. I actually like the cel-shading. I hate TWW for different reasons. Also, why should the graphics matter so much anyway? Isn't it the gameplay that counts more? The story? The characters?

Visual Presentation is the icing on the cake. Hideous looking games are frankly very difficult for me to play.

in b4 anacybele wants more black n gold n ikexelincia in this game

[ZemZem]

Basically everything except for some of the story, a couple of the characters, and some of the music. And treasure chart hunting.

Respecting opinions is what I do, and I respect that you don't like TWW. It's unreasonable hate that I don't like. I'm not asking you to go in depth of the game, or anything, but hating the majority of the game except for those reasons...eh....it's a pretty huge game.

[Anacybele]

Respecting opinions is what I do, and I respect that you don't like TWW. It's unreasonable hate that I don't like. I'm not asking you to go in depth of the game, or anything, but hating the majority of the game except for those reasons...eh....it's a pretty huge game.

So you think it's stupid that I hated much of the game? Well, then you don't respect my opinion at all. But that's fine, I can't make you respect it.

[ZemZem]

So you think it's stupid that I hated much of the game? Well, then you don't respect my opinion at all. But that's fine, I can't make you respect it.

I probably worded that wrong. No, I don't think it's stupid you hate TWW. As long as your reasons are reasonable, that is.

[Anacybele]

I probably worded that wrong. No, I don't think it's stupid you hate TWW. As long as your reasons are reasonable, that is.

So it's unreasonable not to like any of the dungeons, or islands or such. Right.

[ZemZem]

So it's unreasonable not to like any of the dungeons, or islands or such. Right.

No, its not.

It's obvious I misunderstood you. I'm just so used to arguing with people about the game because they don't like the 'kiddy graphics' or how it's not like OoT, or some shit.

[Anacybele]

No, its not.

It's obvious I misunderstood you. I'm just so used to arguing with people about the game because they don't like the 'kiddy graphics' or how it's not like OoT, or some shit.

Don't worry, I understand that. I'm actually sick of all the hate for the graphics myself. I like the cel-shade style and Toon Link is adorable. I actually did like his expressions and such in TWW. In fact, I always laugh my ass off making him slip and slide on Ice Ring Isle. lol

[ZemZem]

Don't worry, I understand that. I'm actually sick of all the hate for the graphics myself. I like the cel-shade style and Toon Link is adorable. I actually did like his expressions and such in TWW. In fact, I always laugh my ass off making him slip and slide on Ice Ring Isle. lol

Yeah, exactly. I liked how it was the first game in the series to give Link actual facial expressions.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, exactly. I liked how it was the first game in the series to give Link actual facial expressions.

I thought Link had a few back in OoT and MM (more so Adult Link, like when he was like "Holy sh--!" when he first lays eyes on Ganon's Castle and he goes "Oh sh--!" when Koume and Kotake merge together in the Twinrova battle), but yeah, the facial expressions were much more prominent in TWW and later, SS.

Oh, and that one scene in TWW...

Link: *puts last pearl on statue*

*statue shakes dangerously*

Link: *runs away*

*statue stops shaking"

Link: Huh? *walks back over*

Statue: *BOOOOOM!*

Link: *goes flying into the wall of the Tower of the Gods*

Just. LOL. Also the scene when Tetra and her pirates launch Link into the Forsaken Fortress. Link is like "OH SH--!" and starts squirming. lol

Edited January 24, 2013 by Anacybele

[ZemZem]

I thought Link had a few back in OoT and MM (more so Adult Link, like when he was like "Holy sh--!" when he first lays eyes on Ganon's Castle and he goes "Oh sh--!" when Koume and Kotake merge together in the Twinrova battle), but yeah, the facial expressions were much more prominent in TWW and later, SS.

And the sneeze, too, I suppose. I meant they were more prominent in TWW, yeah.

[Murdok Dracul]

Here's an idea about the new Zelda U: what if we are thrown into a big, open world like in the original Zelda - hell, I'd actually love a sequel set in a 3D version of AoL's Hyrule. We could start out in one of the many towns, maybe somewhere around the middle of the map, like Nabooru Town. There would be a few hints from townsfolk about our objectives, but they wouldn't be huge, and we wouldn't be forced to go a certain way.

To avoid players getting completely lost, there would be a specific theme in each area, hinted at by colours and environments, and it'd probably help to have a very large, noticeable landmark for each dungeon. Example: in OoT, you knew you'd be going to Death Mountain at some point (twice, at least), and you always knew which way to go to get there, because it was very visibly looming over you while you ran around Hyrule field. In this proposed open world, there'd be loads of visual hints around the world meant to pique your interest (like islands in Wind Waker), and they'd all have interesting features, and the grandest and most noticeable ones would be the most important. The map wouldn't initially be there to hold your hand - it could be automatically filled as you walk along, like in Dragon's Dogma.

Having visual cues would be helped by the graphics being nice and colourful. Not necessarily cartoony, but definitely bright and vivid. Think Skyward Sword mixed up a little more with Twilight Princess, so it's realistic, but still entertaining to look at, and not too dark and gloomy. Actually, I think Ocarina of Time 3D's graphical style would work nicely, especially in HD.

Now, it's of course daunting to have to traverse a huge world on your own, which is where online drop-in co-op would come in. I remember reading a quote from Miyamoto saying that what's fantastic about the original Zelda is that it forced players to communicate with each other, before online gaming or internet forums like SF existed, and tell each other how to get to certain dungeons, obtain certain items, etc. If this were the case in a new Zelda game with modern technology (which we'll definitely be able to do to a degree anyway, with MiiVerse), that'd make for an amazing, enjoyable, non-linear, multiplayer game.

So...do I win?

[MacLovin]

I'd want it to be like WW.

I don't care why WW sucks or anything, it's the best to me.

[NinjaMonkey]

Europe is a bit of a different case. The NES did not sell nearly as well in Western Europe as in America, for whatever reason. It faced fiercer competition from the Master System. If you ignore European sales, the sales in America and Japan do not look very healthy. I don't understand completely what happened with European sales, but I doubt that it was because Wind Waker was anything special.

What do NES sales have to do with Wind Waker, exactly (especially seeing as WW is a GameCube game)?

Anyway, I severely doubt that anything major will be added to this remake, aside from giving it nice HD graphics for graphics-whores to fap over.

Edited January 25, 2013 by NinjaMonkey

[Anouleth]

What do NES sales have to do with Wind Waker, exactly (especially seeing as WW is a GameCube game)?

My original point was that sales of Zelda have been stagnating or declining in recent years, and that Nintendo has failed to recapture the success of the early days of Zelda, by which I mean Legend of Zelda, Adventure of Link, Ocarina of Time, and Link to the Past. Cinderskye disagreed, pointing to sales figures that demonstrate that those Zeldas were not among the best-selling in the series, and I pointed out how those sales figures were actually unhealthy and demonstrated decline. My argument is that that isn't going to be corrected with the re-release of one of the more mediocre titles in the series. Even the re-release of Ocarina of Time wasn't anything to write home about. At best, this is just Nintendo being lazy and porting an old game in order to fill out the Wii U's library while they work on a real Zelda U title.

Anyway, I severely doubt that anything major will be added to this remake, aside from giving it nice HD graphics for graphics-whores to fap over.

Supposedly, dungeons were cut out of the original and replaced with the Triforce hunt because of deadline issues, so it may be that we'll get more dungeons for the second half of the game.

[Knight]

I don't really like the old Zelda's much, except Link's Awakening and LttP sort of. I dislike the lack of story and character development, which some may argue is not important, but I think it very much is. Metal Gear Solid, Batman Arkham Asylum, and Fire Emblem are all very much reliant on their story. A game should have just as good story-telling as gameplay, otherwise I have no motivation to continue the game, it's just repetitive gameplay mechanics. One thing I do like about Zelda is that the gameplay changes with each new item and power you unlock through the game, keeping you entertained even if the story is lacking. However, having a completely open, non-linear gameplay might not bode well for such a game, as linear design is sometimes needed to allow for this "evolving" gameplay. Anyways, if they can combo a good story with an excellent, changing gameplay, AND make it not so linear, then we have the best game ever. Anyone who doesn't like a good story to go with their game is kind of illogical.

[Rehab]

Gameplay can tell a story of its own. I'm all for a good narrative if a game sets out and does it well, but your actions themselves can help tell a story, or they would at least do so if you narrated everything as you played it. Emergent gameplay/narrative is us making our own interpretations of shit like "I sailed here but got massively thrown off course by a fucking wind god," "I wandered for hours not being able to tell where I was going but refusing to die in a hostile environment," things like that can do as much for a game as a narrative. Though it's best they work together.

Part of the problem I had with the original Zelda's nonlinearity when I played was just because of the graphics, I ain't knew where the fuck I was most of the time. If you threw in some modern conveniences, like modern graphics, maps and really developed worlds, like a kind of Zelda's Souls experience, it could be pretty cool. Though I do enjoy some social interaction in Zelda games occasionally, so maybe I wouldn't just make it only dungeons like Demon's Souls etc.

[Knight]

Gameplay can tell a story of its own. I'm all for a good narrative if a game sets out and does it well, but your actions themselves can help tell a story, or they would at least do so if you narrated everything as you played it. Emergent gameplay/narrative is us making our own interpretations of shit like "I sailed here but got massively thrown off course by a fucking wind god," "I wandered for hours not being able to tell where I was going but refusing to die in a hostile environment," things like that can do as much for a game as a narrative. Though it's best they work together.

Part of the problem I had with the original Zelda's nonlinearity when I played was just because of the graphics, I ain't knew where the fuck I was most of the time. If you threw in some modern conveniences, like modern graphics, maps and really developed worlds, like a kind of Zelda's Souls experience, it could be pretty cool. Though I do enjoy some social interaction in Zelda games occasionally, so maybe I wouldn't just make it only dungeons like Demon's Souls etc.

Yes, I agree that sometimes filling the tale in yourself is good for some games, but I prefer having an interesting plot. Maybe they can make it more so that your actions can influence the game, depending on what you do. I must admit, Minecraft doesn't need a story to be what it is, but Zelda is very different than Minecraft.

[Ike-Mike]

But Aonuma's favorite Zelda is ALttP.

Yeah, because he liked cutting bushes.

He liked ALttP not for the non-linearity, not for the overall gameplay and content, but for cutting bushes.

Yeah.

[Anouleth]

Yes, I agree that sometimes filling the tale in yourself is good for some games, but I prefer having an interesting plot. Maybe they can make it more so that your actions can influence the game, depending on what you do. I must admit, Minecraft doesn't need a story to be what it is, but Zelda is very different than Minecraft.

Uh, why? Early Zelda didn't have a story, or much of a story. The story of Link to the Past is pretty bare bones and generally consists of the village elder or various elders providing exposition after each dungeon. There's very little narrative, and the plot never progresses beyond "go defeat Ganon". It's only with Ocarina of Time that we started getting "character development".

Minecraft and Zelda are really not that dissimilar. At their heart, they're about exploring and fighting monsters (Minecraft only exploded in popularity after monsters were added to the game). Minecraft even has dungeons! So I don't really see the justification in saying that they're "very different".

Edited January 25, 2013 by Anouleth

[frat_tastic]

Because if Zelda stayed the same as when it first came out, people would be bitching about how it doesn't innovate and its stale.

I'd rather see a remake of LttP or MM, but mainly because they're older than WW and I think could use the touch-up more. WW has aged remarkably well (although maybe that's because its only 10 years old). I loved WW, so even though I'd rather see an older game get the remake treatment, I'm still excited for this one.

[Party Moth]

Uh, why? Early Zelda didn't have a story, or much of a story. The story of Link to the Past is pretty bare bones and generally consists of the village elder or various elders providing exposition after each dungeon. There's very little narrative, and the plot never progresses beyond "go defeat Ganon". It's only with Ocarina of Time that we started getting "character development".

If you missed the symbolic elements of the old games, particularly Link's Awakening, then I'm going to assume you'll never care for things like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword. I also think you're focusing on what has changed and not what has remained, even become more significant, in the series. Once again, I cannot stress enough how everyone plays Zelda for different reasons.

If the change to linear game play just isn't your thing, then maybe you'll appreciate the announced intention of less linearity in dungeons. If you feel that the series needs to have less narrative, then I guess that's where our opinions completely diverge and we reach an impasse. If anything, I believe Zelda needs more musical narrative, something that Twilight Princess attempted to do and that Skyward Sword was closer to achieving.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Duels at Dawn

[Anouleth]

If you missed the symbolic elements of the old games, particularly Link's Awakening, then I'm going to assume you'll never care for things like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword.

I don't really know what you're talking about with symbolic elements. Nor do I think that symbolism is really a good thing, or something to base a video game on. Or something to buy a game for.

I did enjoy Wind Waker. It's a well-made game, like virtually everything that Nintendo makes. But I would not pay to play it again. I would certainly not buy a console to play it again.

If the change to linear game play just isn't your thing, then maybe you'll appreciate the announced intention of less linearity in dungeons.

Given the direction the game series has gone in, I'll believe that they've changed direction when I see it.

If you feel that the series needs to have less narrative, then I guess that's where our opinions completely diverge and we reach an impasse. If anything, I believe Zelda needs more musical narrative, something that Twilight Princess attempted to do and that Skyward Sword was closer to achieving.

I cannot imagine anything worse. What, are Link and Zelda going to sing about their feelings? Maybe Zelda will tell us about her maternal emotions. Maybe Link will angst about having to save the world. Maybe we'll hear about Ganon's bad childhood. Maybe we'll learn about Tingle's dreams for the future.

[Rehab]

Maybe in place of Link angsting about saving the world, he just has to save it while people other than Ganon/the forces of darkness directly aligned with him are fighting and/or making his job a lot harder than he'd like, as in actual people. You wouldn't need to draw much attention to Link's character to do it even, just have something like the Hylian royal family fighting, or being a bunch of jerks and getting rebelled against. Maybe the Hylian royal family has been deposed, the game takes some New World colonial or Napoleonic influences, and the game takes place during Hyrule's transition to a constitutional- *SHOT*

Or maybe we get put in control of somebody who thinks/hopes they're the hero of time, or who just says "fuck it nobody else is gonna come help" it and rises to save the day when nobody else will, but just isn't blessed by destiny and actually ends up failing, though in the process giving the future heroes a chance or something. Maybe we play somebody living in the time when Ganon came back to Ocarina's hyrule, and actually ended up winning (sort of?) and got the place flooded. That'd be something of a changeup, a Zelda where you lose with glory, eh?

Maybe we could get a Zelda game in a stylized setting, like steampunk, and it's actually Link's job/dream job to be an explorer of some kind. Maybe we could get a robot horse or an airship or something.

Maybe they could pull a Psychonauts and have the McGuffins Link needs be inside peoples' hea-pahahaha okay even I can't on that one

Edited January 25, 2013 by Rehab

[grandjackal]

While linearity or no is unimportant for a zelda game imo (nice if it isn't linear, don't mind if it doesn't since non-linearity really change anything about the game), I would think that anyone suggested that not only does zelda need more music but needs musical narrative needs to be committed. Musical nonsense is a gimmick that needs to stop. It was fine in Ocarina because it was about an Ocarina. MM it was fine, cause it was a continuation of Ocarina so it makes sense to have it there. Wind Waker it was used to somehow make sailing even more annoying. Skyward Sword the harp was so forced that it hurt. If TP did anything right, it stayed away from that nonsense, leaving wolf howls as a sidequest. If they added musical narrative to the series, I would put my money elsewhere and not give a shit about anything. The gameplay would be perfect. Still wouldn't but it.

As for recapturing non-linear magic, I would hope they base it off LttP more than 1 or 2. Loved 2, but it was basic with it's map/random at times. I forget what part it was, but it involved finding invisible paths on the world map to proceed forward to a shrine. 1 just needs to never be repeated.

Anyways, as for this supposed non-linear focus for the new game, makes me wonder if they'll do something crazy like make notable treasures like the hookshot or the bow into buyable items. Hey, Link's Awakening did it, kinda. Though if they make them insanely expensive, that would be a bummer.

Wonder if you could steal again...

EDIT: Or maybe Link is a dude dressed in green set out out to destroy some asshole named Ganon, one of his associates who eventually leads you to Ganon, or someone no one likes because it's not Ganon despite how bored of Ganon everyone is.

Can we just accept that the Zelda series is an old man constantly trying to wear hip and modern clothes?

Edited January 25, 2013 by grandjackal