Zelda Wii U

[Party Moth]

I don't really know what you're talking about with symbolic elements. Nor do I think that symbolism is really a good thing, or something to base a video game on. Or something to buy a game for.

All the more reason why I say you wouldn't appreciate some of the more symbolic elements present in the later games. I'm talking the 9 levels of hell in Zelda I, the use of flight since the very beginning (finally brought into a new interpretation via Skyward Sword), the mixing of mythology throughout the entire series, Link's Awakening and its subtle characterization.

Guess what. People buy games in order to enjoy them. How they enjoy them is different for everyone. Some people like the mythology and the thought put into the finer details. Others prefer gameplay and nonlinearity. Everyone's different. I personally prefer a decent narrative and excellent composition in my video games.

I cannot imagine anything worse. What, are Link and Zelda going to sing about their feelings? Maybe Zelda will tell us about her maternal emotions. Maybe Link will angst about having to save the world. Maybe we'll hear about Ganon's bad childhood. Maybe we'll learn about Tingle's dreams for the future.

By "musical narrative," I don't mean a musical. That would be stupid. I'm instead referring to the compositional structure of the music and how it portrays the changes in characterization and fate through chord progressions and tonal harmony. See Wagner and his operas for what I am referring to (sans singing, unless you're really into Zelda opera for whatever reason).

[Rehab]

Can we just accept that the Zelda series is an old man constantly trying to wear hip and modern clothes?

So Zelda's an ancient, no doubt by this point ultra-powerful vampire that has managed to maintain the illusion of humanity for years? Fuck dude I can respect that

[Esau of Isaac]

So Zelda's an ancient, no doubt by this point ultra-powerful vampire that has managed to maintain the illusion of humanity for years? Fuck dude I can respect that

I always made it a point in VtM (and to a lesser extent VtR) campaigns to have the oldest Kindred all perplexed about things like cars. Like they still find them curious inventions and never learned to drive.

That's how TLoZ is. But in a good way I guess?

[Anacybele]

Yeah, because he liked cutting bushes.

He liked ALttP not for the non-linearity, not for the overall gameplay and content, but for cutting bushes.

Yeah.

That is stupid. You can cut grass/bushes in every damn game in the series. It's a series staple, and a minor one at that. Aonuma would have to be a fantastic idiot to favor a game for a reason as dumb as this. And he clearly is not that stupid.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Anacybele

[Just call me AL]

And considering the very first game Aonuma worked on, I would think it's pretty darn stupid in and of itself to assume that cutting grass would be the only reason that Aonuma liked ALttP.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Little Al

[Ike-Mike]

Yes, it is stupid.

In planning A Link to the Past, I kept playing basic actions that were completely unrelated to battling the enemies -- things like cutting the grass, lifting stones to search beneath them, and using keys to open doors.

ALttP was the first Zelda with cuttable bushes, by the way.

If you look at that quote and Marvelous it becomes apparent that the action elements were consciously being pushed aside for the adventure elements and petty doodads.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ike-Mike

[Knight]

Enough bushes, I wish to cut trees!

[Rehab]

Legend of Zelda: Revengeance, featuring "yes we actually can let you cut that shit any way you want" cut-time

[Anacybele]

Enough bushes, I wish to cut trees!

You can in Skyward Sword, actually. Small trees, but they're trees nonetheless. :P

[Knight]

You can in Skyward Sword, actually. Small trees, but they're trees nonetheless. :P

No, I mean I want to turn the Deku Tree into fire wood and affordable housing material.

[MacLovin]

Legend of Zelda: Revengeance, featuring "yes we actually can let you cut that shit any way you want" cut-time

Oh yesss.

[Anouleth]

And considering the very first game Aonuma worked on, I would think it's pretty darn stupid in and of itself to assume that cutting grass would be the only reason that Aonuma liked ALttP.

Actually he said it himself.

"When I played A Link to the Past on the Super Famicom, I really enjoyed that game. I thought it was great. The reason I enjoyed that game was that there were so many things to do other than fighting enemies. You could lift rocks and chop grass, and the more you did this, the larger the world that you could travel through grew."

And he admits that he hated the first Legend of Zelda. He doesn't even like Mario!

"To be honest with you, I just don't like action games that require you to jump. They're scary. The jumping factor kind of freaks me out."

No wonder that jumping was only introduced with the Capcom games. Because Aonuma is scared by jumping (this is also why in Ocarina of Time, you jump automatically when you reach a ledge). It's not really surprising. Marvelous was a puzzle game where you talked to NPCs, with no combat.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Anouleth

[Anacybele]

I think it sounds more like he's only using rocks and grass as examples of other things you could do besides fighting enemies, and that he liked that you could do other things besides fighting enemies. Not that he enjoyed simply cutting grass and lifting rocks in themselves. :/

Basically, he's saying he likes ALttP a lot because these things enable you to explore more of the overworld.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Anacybele

[NinjaMonkey]

No wonder that jumping was only introduced with the Capcom games.

I take it that you haven't played Link's Awakening for the Game Boy, then? Because Link could jump in that game, using an item called the Roc's Feather.

Edited February 1, 2013 by NinjaMonkey

[Rehab]

I wonder what it'd be like to have "realistic" jumping input, like basically the kind Link already does when he walks off an edge but where you also have to press a button as Link jumps off, or if you don't he'll just walk off and drop. Or maybe hang on the ledge.

That didn't sound quite so dumb when it first started forming in my head I swear

Edited February 1, 2013 by Rehab

[Anouleth]

I take it that you haven't played Link's Awakening for the Game Boy, then? Because Link could jump in that game, using an item called the Roc's Feather.

Oh yeah. But it's true that Zelda games generally avoid jumping. And Link's Awakening wasn't an Aonuma game anyway (it was Tezuka directing). And the only time we got jumping back, in the Minish Cap, was also not directed by Aonuma. So my overall point, that we don't get jumping in Zelda because Aonuma personally dislikes it, is unchanged.