The Lunatic Club

[darkkfan]

I don't understand the Virion hype. Yeah, bows are great in earlygame Lunatic+, but he's only got a Def growth rate of 35%...it seems like training Lon'qu (who is also fragile, but at least dodges things, and can be trained easily due to the abundance of axes earlygame) and/or Avatar to be your bow-user might yield more benefit.

I definitely agree about Virion. Ricken is kind of in the same boat for Luna+ IMO as far as durability. While ranged attacks are definitely invaluable on Luna+, there really aren't that many good candidates for ranged attackers. I mean there's Avatar and that's basically it until you get Morgan. I mean, Miriel is pretty good for me but she got a ton of training plus a couple lucky Celica's Gales. Tharja might be pretty decent, especially in a nosferatanking-friendly setting, but Virion, Henry, and Ricken are all too slow IMO (even Miriel's speed is pushing it). Maybe Lissa has potential with an early promotion to Sage but I wouldn't know because I went War Cleric for durability.

Not necessarily. Because there's no checks or balances on the system, it's entirely possible to have a map drop big clumps of 3-4 Counter enemies together or even just spam 80%+ of the map with it. I've seen the latter case enough times to know the frustration. And this is with my typical strategy where I place priority on having combat pairs (usually five, although it became four in my no grind run because Lon'qu was RNG screwed so hard) with lead units that tote 2 range. Sometimes there just isn't enough firepower to deal with the sheer amount of Counter spam.

^this

Edited May 9, 2013 by Walhart

[Interceptor]

Zerkers tend to have hit at the lower end of the spectrum, though. I do know how awesome a high avoid can be (I've run a +Spd/-Luk FeMU every run), but I seem to remember enemies pushing closer to 170 toward the end of the game (and it only goes up in the Spotpass Paralogues where I think I was facing ~80 displayed hit from Priam's lackies), which forced me to rely on Sol, Rescue spam and Galeforce kiting a lot more.

There are some of those in Ch21: Swordmasters and Assassins, rocking around 173-174 HIT for the most part. That'd be a problem if they had higher mt, but they don't, at least not yet. An SM with Swordfaire and a crazy Silver forge is as good as it gets here, and 56mt is not really scary at all when you have 44-46 DEF. In the worst case, it's a 7HKO at 45% listed. I guess if a lot of them have Luna+ that might get crazy in a hurry, though.

In my next run, I think I'm going to spend more time working Demoiselle into the mix, so that Avoid-tanking is more reliable. It will be raining men. Gregor has access to both Myrm and Merc, so that ought to be fun times.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I definitely agree about Virion. Ricken is kind of in the same boat for Luna+ IMO as far as durability. While ranged attacks are definitely invaluable on Luna+, there really aren't that many good candidates for ranged attackers. I mean there's Avatar and that's basically it until you get Morgan. I mean, Miriel is pretty good for me but she got a ton of training plus a couple lucky Celica's Gales. Tharja might be pretty decent, especially in a nosferatanking-friendly setting, but Virion, Henry, and Ricken are all too slow IMO (even Miriel's speed is pushing it). Maybe Lissa has potential with an early promotion to Sage but I wouldn't know because I went War Cleric for durability.

I used Ricken for some really last ditch chip damage a couple times during the main story. If anything gets within range to so much as look at him funny, his face explodes, though. If one has a deployment slot they don't know what to do with in the earlier chapters, it's a decent idea to bring him along just to have one more tome at the ready.

Henry was pretty much in the same boat as Virion during my run that allowed grinding. Except without the Longbow, but generally better damage output thanks to tomes. Tharja needed a bit to get past her hit issues too, although they weren't too bad (this was, however, with normal elemental tomes).

Lissa's not bad as a combatant, but I still preferred to keep her on staff duty due to the primary combat pairs constantly needing heals or rescues (as a result, she was always fairly high level, just didn't have a great tome selection). Generally speaking I found she didn't have many issues doubling when she did need to fight (except against the really speedy enemies), although her mediocre skill kept me a bit nervous when she did attack. She did hit pretty hard, but anytime she could get hit back by a non-magic enemy, she just about died (and I still find it hilarious that this was less squishy than my RNG screwed Lon'qu).

There are some of those in Ch21: Swordmasters and Assassins, rocking around 173-174 HIT for the most part. That'd be a problem if they had higher mt, but they don't, at least not yet. An SM with Swordfaire and a crazy Silver forge is as good as it gets here, and 56mt is not really scary at all when you have 44-46 DEF. In the worst case, it's a 7HKO at 45% listed. I guess if a lot of them have Luna+ that might get crazy in a hurry, though.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. In the main game, I only feared Luna+ (against my top tier pairs, anyway) from the sword and bow users because they can actually fairly reliably land a hit.

[darkkfan]

I posted this in the Lunatic+ advice topic and I thought it'd be helpful to post it here. It's a list of links to all of the Lunatic+ documentation that exists to the best of my knowledge. The first two are my playlog and the next two are other people with similar information. The last two are translations of japanese sites that have links to some chapters.

Walhart (Part 1): http://serenesforest...38195&p=2294782

Walhart (Part 2): http://serenesforest...38195&p=2294853

Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi: http://serenesforest...38195&p=2345476

1% Critted: http://serenesforest...39923&p=2386693

Interceptor: http://serenesforest...topic=40300&hl=

Japanese Links 1 (all chapters): http://translate.goo...s1/lunatic.html

Japanese Links 2 (Up to Chapter 4): http://translate.goo...g-entry-11.html

Edited May 24, 2013 by Walhart

[Aircalipoor]

I´m currently on chapter 5 (lunatic+ without grinding etc.) and need enlightment.

All that is left are the five wyvern riders (four have counter, but I may actually survie that with a slightly complex strategy) and the three northern enemies(mercenary, dark mage, bandit). I know that all five wyvern riders attack if I got in the range of just one (or two?). I want to beat the other three enemies before that.

Can I lure the three normal enemies without triggering the five wyvern riders? There are two spots that aren´t covered by them.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Aircalipoor

[Othin]

I always fought the three foot enemies last, since they won't move even if you trigger the wyverns. Is there a reason you can't fight the wyverns first?

[Aircalipoor]

They won´t move even if I trigger the wyvern riders? Fine, I will ignore then.

Fighting five enemies at once > fighting eight enemies at once.

[Zer0]

HEY GUYS! I finally beat chapter 2 on Lunatic + (casual) and feeling like a baws! Gawds I would never attempt the suicide that is classic +.

[1% critted]

Did you know? If an enemy that has a 1-2 range weapon that has counter, but your unit has enough HP to suicide itself on counter, it will attack on 1-range?

I tested it.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Did you know? If an enemy that has a 1-2 range weapon that has counter, but your unit has enough HP to suicide itself on counter, it will attack on 1-range?

I tested it.

They won't always do that, though. I recall Walhart having a run through chapter 9 saved from a reset because a Wyv didn't do this. I'm fairly certain I've had at least a handful of situations where this was true for myself too. Although a Dark Knight did randomly do this to me in chapter 19 against FeMU. On the other hand, I had a Sage do it in Yarne's paralogue when Counter would not have killed FeMU. There was no advantageous terrain adjacent to her and none of his buddies were body blocking. I also believe said Sage was the very last unit to attack her.

[Interceptor]

The more I see the enemy AI, the less I understand it.

I had a sequence in Ch20 where I was making the final assault on Walhart, and miscalculated the damage that I'd need to throw down on him. As a result, Player Phase ended with Walhart at 2 HP, and his little coterie surrounding him still. I was prepared to restart, but gave it a try anyway. What happened, was that Walhart acted first, and suicided on Gregor at 2-range. Fin.

This was weird because Gregor is a Warrior, without Counter (he is level 12), and had a bow equipped. Walhart could have fought him at 1-range with Wolf Berg, no problem. Also, Lissa was nearly right next to Walhart, and he ignored her 51 HP and 12 DEF (!!!) squishiness (although, she had a Wind tome equipped).

Inconceivable.

[1% critted]

They won't always do that, though. I recall Walhart having a run through chapter 9 saved from a reset because a Wyv didn't do this. I'm fairly certain I've had at least a handful of situations where this was true for myself too. Although a Dark Knight did randomly do this to me in chapter 19 against FeMU. On the other hand, I had a Sage do it in Yarne's paralogue when Counter would not have killed FeMU. There was no advantageous terrain adjacent to her and none of his buddies were body blocking. I also believe said Sage was the very last unit to attack her.

Well to me it has happened several times already, last time a mage that was alone decided to 1-range me because he had counter and I could die if I attacked him.

It just makes no sense really, the AI is all over the place.

Edited May 15, 2013 by 1% critted

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

The more I see the enemy AI, the less I understand it.

I had a sequence in Ch20 where I was making the final assault on Walhart, and miscalculated the damage that I'd need to throw down on him. As a result, Player Phase ended with Walhart at 2 HP, and his little coterie surrounding him still. I was prepared to restart, but gave it a try anyway. What happened, was that Walhart acted first, and suicided on Gregor at 2-range. Fin.

This was weird because Gregor is a Warrior, without Counter (he is level 12), and had a bow equipped. Walhart could have fought him at 1-range with Wolf Berg, no problem. Also, Lissa was nearly right next to Walhart, and he ignored her 51 HP and 12 DEF (!!!) squishiness (although, she had a Wind tome equipped).

Inconceivable.

I've had similar situations happen too, although with mooks. It almost seems like they pick a target to gang up on, although it isn't always the squishiest. Like that time where Anna got targeted instead of Nowi, even though Nowi could have been doubled and killed (and even if we go with the theory that Luna+ is not factored in, the mook would've done a lot more damage to her in two strikes than his single against Anna).

As far as boss suicides go, that routinely happens to me with Grima. The enemy healers could go first and make things more difficult. Or Grima could go first and get mauled by my FeMU/Chrom pair. Evidently the AI prefers the second. XP

[1% critted]

I think bosses go first in turn order.

[XeKr]

I think bosses go first unless a generic can kill one of your other units. This prevents suicidal Rescue chains, among other things.

Edited May 15, 2013 by XeKr

[Interceptor]

Only thing that I can think of in my case, is that Gregor had the lowest hit rate of the available targets, due to his SKL/LCK and Gamble. Although, since this was with a bow, and he has a Cordelia support plus Patience, "low" in this case is still 155 HIT while doubling.

Oh well. Not gonna complain about lucky breaks!

[VariationK]

I'm on chapter 3 of L+ and my avatar that's +str/-skl is level 4. Fred is level 4 and everyone else is basically at base level except for chrom who is level 2. Did I screw myself?

Also, got jacked on every level up when i was actually successful at clearing the map with no deaths.

[Interceptor]

You're likely to have a seriously hard time with such a low-level Avatar. Fred can't really do everything.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I think bosses go first in turn order.

Usually, yeah. Although I noticed that sometimes Grima will pass his turn to the mooks when he could have killed FeMU with an Ignis, opting to send a few of the surrounding mooks at her until she unevitably Sols back up to 75%ish HP, at which point Grima gives up and suicides on her (seriously, I'm baffled by the AI logic here). This is really weird and obscure, especially since knowing that the boss can opt to wait until other units have acted, why wouldn't it heal, fight, then get more healing (there's something like 3 staff using enemies in Endgame IIRC)?

I'm on chapter 3 of L+ and my avatar that's +str/-skl is level 4. Fred is level 4 and everyone else is basically at base level except for chrom who is level 2. Did I screw myself?

Also, got jacked on every level up when i was actually successful at clearing the map with no deaths.

You might be able to pull it off if you plan on grinding DLC (Spotpass is going to be of relatively limited help). Chapter 3 is going to be pretty tough with everyone else so underleveled, though. You're probably going to have to reset a lot or be prepared to let people die until you can hit the Outrealms.

[darkkfan]

It just makes no sense really, the AI is all over the place.

^this, basically. Like interceptor said, as soon as I think I have the enemy AI figured out, the game essentially throws a monkey wrench into my theory.

I'm on chapter 3 of L+ and my avatar that's +str/-skl is level 4. Fred is level 4 and everyone else is basically at base level except for chrom who is level 2. Did I screw myself?

Also, got jacked on every level up when i was actually successful at clearing the map with no deaths.

Even with no grind, it should still be possible with a weak Avatar. My Avatar was level 4 until halfway through chapter 5 (after doing paralogue 1 too) and level 5 up until chapter 7 (after doing both of the first two paralogues), so it is doable. The only problem is I relied on Chrom pretty heavily. I mean, it should be possible with either an underused Chrom or Avatar, but having both underused is really pushing it without grinding IMO.

[VariationK]

Ehh... I just decided to start over. On chapter 2 now and my avatar has 12 def and 11 spd at level 7.

[Tables]

Just finished Lunatic CLA earlier today. Was somewhat disappointed with the second half's difficulty, overall.

I used a team of 8 characters - 4 main and 4 partially trained supports (i.e. I used them like normal characters earlier on, then eventually began to use them only as pair up units).

Chrom (Great Lord/Paladin lines) x Sully (Cavalier > Great Knight)

Avatar (+HP/-STR) (Grandmaster/Sorcerer lines) x Nowi (Wyvern Rider > Griffon Rider)

Lucina (Swordmaster/Paladin lines x Kjell (Knight > Great Knight)

Morgan (Tactician > Manakete) x Nah (Pegasus Knight > Falcoknight)

The early game was tough (chapter 3 was the hardest in the game, by far), but after that, it started to get gradually easier. By about chapter 12, the game had become pretty easy - and then I got the children (except Nah) and began training them up. From about chapter 16 onwards things became a joke. Every character had the stats to basically tank physically and magically and dodge, as well as ORKO. Even forged silvers and +10 hit weren't enough to make it laughably easy. Even chapter 21, the chapter I was most dreading, was pretty straightforward.

Probably my MVP was Morgan. Armed with Veteran, Ignis and all stats +2 (n.b. I did each of the 5 DLC maps available in Europe once, excluding Golden pack which I didn't do), he grew quickly, and by endgame, had capped everything except RES which he was 1-2 points off. He probably could have solo'd the final chapter, given enough time, but I sped it up with everyone else's support.

Now to decide what to do next: Hard training every character and aiming to get most/all supports, or Lunatic+ NEW (I'm not insane enough to do Lunatic+ CLA)...

[Interceptor]

Since you seem to want difficulty, you should try a Lunatic+ run, and I'd recommend no-DLC if you can handle it. Newcomer/Casual is a good idea, since the early chapters can otherwise be somewhat ridiculous.

[Tables]

Yeah, the early chapters are definitely the thing I'm scared of. Battle Saves will definitely relieve that somewhat (well and being able to suicide strike Fred towards chapter ends, I guess, but that seems pretty niche).

I'm not actually sure if I'm more interested in a nice, hard challenge or getting more supports/children chapters and the like. I'd kind of like to at least recruit all the children in one file, and an all characters run makes that possible (and being on hard, it should at least be reasonably challenging, even with all the side stories getting unlocked.

[Interceptor]

Suiciding characters is more useful than you might think. Chapter 2 in particular is about 10x easier if you can use units like Stahl or Sully as decoys, taking heat off of Fred/Avatar. Battle saves are also useful, particularly since you can "lock in" a certain enemy skill configuration and keep trying until you manage to find a way to overcome it.

Not sure that you'll encounter much difficulty in Hard mode. If you didn't find Lunatic challenging, Hard mode is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel.