The Lunatic Club

[Czar_Yoshi]

Uhh. . .okay? More power to you if it works?

It's an aesthetics build. He's doing what the Avatar is actually intended for and making it a self-insert.

[kwon]

I beat lunatic once, but I farmed to get there so it doesn't count. Lunatic+ I got stuck in chapter 2, which is where most people get stuck I imagine. The gap between hard - lunatic - lunatic+ is pretty freakin huge

[Ownagepuffs]

I'm way late with this. C24 is cleared in 4 turns. I wonder if this would be "efficient" enough for XeKr

You know the drill. Rally spectrum, The Falchion sisters go ham with galeforce, being on the other side of the northern half of the map as early as the first turn. Parked in a forest they still shit all over the enemies. Dodge tanked through most of them even with their Hit +20. With a Javelin, Cynthia clears out 3 Wyverns, like 2 Greats Knights and a Paladin all while barely facing 40% displayed hit even with WTD. The lower half was a bit more precarious. I danced Robin so he could rally spectrum the bottom half of the map. Flavia equips an Eirika's Blade to easily take out the initial southern paladin. She has a base of 54% Armsthrift. Not bad. Cordelia also fights a paladin in the middle and galeforces back. Cherche OHKOs a Valkyrie and gets rescued by Maribelle. Sumia/Chrom kind of just sit around.

On turn 2, Lucina/Cynthia maul 3 more enemies and end their action on the rightmost northern fort. Cordelia uses Rally movement. Cherche OHKOs another Valkyrie, gets danced, the flies up to the left-middle fort to block. She equips Armads for the defense boost. Helswath would have been just as good but eh. Sumia kills a Wyvern and a Paladin and gets rescued, Basilio weakens a Valkyrie for Morgan to kill. EP, Cynthia kills more things on the fort. Cherce w/ Armads kills 2 Wyverns. A paladin and wyvern appear from the other 2 unoccupied forts.

Turn 3 was sorta fun. Sumia kills the paladin that appeared from the fort and Galeforces to the fort he spawned from. Cordelia kill the Wyvern that appeared from the fort and Galeforces to the fort he spawned from. 2 forts covered in 1 turn. Gotta love galeforce. Every kill-able enemy was out of range so I had to wait another turn. EP, enemies move.

Turn 4, they get cleaned up. Chrom got a kill. Hasn't gotten strength in like 4 levels now he is hilariously sitting on 25 Strength still.

Honestly, this map was just not fun. It wasn't hard, just tedious. The game is way too encouraging of EP juggernauts towards the end. Access to Nosferatu doesn't help this either.

C25 at a glance: Lmao, this maps just screams "1 turn me please". I might just do that, since everyone is more or less ready to go and there is only 1 chapter left. I've got no incentive to stick around and milk them for exp.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I like C24's map design, but I feel like the enemy placement didn't utilize it at all. Like, I'd love to have engaged them in the forest farther up, but the enemies are pretty much right on top of me as soon as the map starts. I have no incentive to push to control more of the forest because they're bringing themselves in piecemeal for my guys to mop up, while I hardly lift a finger.

If not 1-turning C25, it gives some incentive push and take control of one side of the mountain or other, but I think it's really just too late to the party to convince more people to stick around and fight it out. I think C25 is what C23 should have been.

[XeKr]

1 turn’d in No Second Seals, just 1 Galeforcer, so…

It seem to me that C24 was deliberately designed so that every enemy type is especially weak to something and the forests purposely slow down and funnel most of the enemy mounts. Going too slow gives some danger of the Wyvern swarms becoming overwhelming. There is incentive to control the forts for terrain bonuses and to stop reinforcements. The player team has Rescue and Pair Up for the positioning advantage as well.

Utlimately I don’t really mind Manaketes/Nosferatu that much because of their low mobility. Not that easy to train them in efficient play outside Veteran units, too, and the main reason they are really needed is that Rescue chains blast through bosskill chapters too fast (if one desires). But yeah, easy enough to instead lowman turtle everything on a fort (such is FE).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I usually take control of the forward-most forts and move in a collapsing C-shape that kind of crushes the front half of the map (using four combat pairs) and the enemy walks straight into it. Of course, I'm pretty cautious and contending with Counter spam (especially from instant reinforcements) can be a bit precarious at times, so I tend to err on the side of reliability (because losing the map and a bunch of real time minutes taking an iffy risk is not efficient).

[XeKr]

Oh yeah for sure in L+ Counter slows stuff down if caring about reliability.

In regular Lunatic, the lategame isn't too bad to 1-2 turn with high reliability, if you spent lots of turns/time training units earlier. Rescue spam is too strong even if the player doesn't have much Galeforce. >_>

[Ownagepuffs]

Showoff

C24 Felt like Verdane in FE4. So much forest. The high enemy density approach is really just uninteresting.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, buyable Rescue is one of those things in the game that just breaks any difficulty by allowing so much absurd stuff to be done. I remember having a good laugh at that one Normal absolutely lowest LTC topic way back because it was on the back of Rescue that that turn count list was almost entirely ones. Always did wonder if vanilla Lunatic could do similar, but I think that answers my question.

[Gradivus.]

do you mean chiki's run? it actually was mainly based on having multiple logbook galeforce units right from C4 on. midgame bosskill map 1-turn clears are more dependent on galeforce than on infinite rescue; they are able to accomplish those turncounts with one or two rescues per map.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Sounds like the run, yeah. Okay, so the Rescue isn't the only thing in play, but they were still necessary to get the Galeforcers into position. Which is kind of a big deal proportionally when not having them would double the turns taken.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Rescue may not be the centerpiece, but it's still absolutely necessary for the myriad cases where 3 attacks simply cannot reach the Boss under any circumstances (the elephant in the room here is Cht.21, where a 1-turn is almost impossible in nogrind constraints without Rescue, Olivia and a very high Mov double Galepair, and best doable with several GF Falcos with high Mag).

[Ownagepuffs]

25/26 in 1 turn. Standard stuff. I forgot how amazing the credits music was.

[Varidan]

I could use a few community suggestions on my Lunatic run, if anyone is willing. First off, my main group/pairings are going to be ChromxOlivia, Male AvatarxNowi, and SullyxGregor. Basically i wanted to play around with Morgan as a Manakete and see how that goes, and try out Inigo as well. I chose Sully because i discovered she is an amazing avoid tank early on with Outdoor Fighter + Avoid 10 after reclassing to myrmidon. Since most of the Plegia battles are outdoors, and light in lance users, she does quite well. For example, she got hit maybe 2 or 3 times in the entire Ch. 5 fight earlier today, and she put the Levin Sword to good use too. And this without Charm too (altho Chrom hit 10 later in the fight when it was safer). Granted, she will probly fall out of favor come Valm arc, in which she will probly be a support bot for Kjelle.

Herein lies my first decision making. I am not quite sure what sort of support unit Sully should be. Having just finished Ch.5, she is almost a lvl 10 myrmidon, altho currently I only have one seal on hand, and that one is for Avatar, (more on him later). My ideal setup for Kjelle would have been an Aegis/Pavise tank set, and Sully could pass down Aegis. But I would have to find another Seal and run her through Cavalier a 2nd time, which sounds kind redundant. I wanted to end Sully as a Great Knight support with DG+, but that is probly rather unrealistic taking all the exp into account, even if she could use Veteran. Oh, and before I continue, i should probly mention I'm not planning to grind through DLC. Anyways, my 2nd option i suppose, could be to just promote Sully to Swordmaster/Assassin, and later seal over to Gt. Knight and be a proc support bot of sorts, and pass down a different skill to Kjelle. Perhaps Avoid +10 and Gregors Patience to give her some nice dodge, (I'd probly make her a Hero and pick up Sol on her own.)

The 2nd area i could use some community feedback in, is what to do with Avatar, and his 2 upcoming manakete children. Avatar is pretty much ready for a reclass, and i initially wanted to go Dark Mage for Hex/Anathema for training purposes later on. He is the only one i can do that with in my current group setup. However, I thought Armsthrift might be useful on Manaketes and their Dragonstones, but then I also read somewhere that Armsthrift is wasted on Manaketes, so I'm assuming it doesnt work on Dragonstones? If so, that would make my decision much easier, and I'd reclass to Dark Mage, if someone can clarify Armsthrift/Dragonstones for me. Probly end up passing down Veteran or Vengeance.

I'll probly marry Inigo to Lucina. With Rightful King, Inigo can be a skill proc fiend, and as the only 2nd gen. male has the choice of several lovely ladies, outside of his sister Lucina. Actually Morgan is probly the best way to go since I'm sure she'll love that S support. I might not even use Nah since that is a handful of 2nd gens to train up in a no grind run (unless i give her Veteran). In any case, I should close by saying I havent actually cleared Lunatic yet... I got around halfway and grinded DLC... but that made it too easy/boring and i felt ashamed, so i did some research, and decided to try again with no grind. I also want to see how this group works, and maybe use it as a basis for Lunatic+, altho that is a whole different level so that will probly need some tweaking if i get to that point. Anyways, i appreciate any suggestions/insight anyone can give me!

[Czar_Yoshi]

Avatar should definitely go Merc because its pairup bonuses make Nowi's early training much faster.

People say AT is useless on Manaketes because you can't forge Dragonstone+ so they don't cost very much. It's still very helpful ingame.

[XeKr]

Re: Galeforce/Rescue:

The tricky part, however, is that usually Galeforce requires Dark Flier 15. Actual reliability is a major concern in attaining the benchmarks necessary, given how little exp there is, and how fast enemy stats increase.

The Galeforce family is generally FRobin + Morgan (+some Chrom for endgame, his accuracy is going to be terrible notably). Supposing that Galeforce didn’t exist, we might expect similar turncounts could be achieved overall with a Deliverer family of MRobin and Lucina (+some Morgan for routs.). Wyvern has a considerably stronger earlygame and better early snowball potential. Also don’t have to delay Morgan; note Miikaya barely got him with extra Paralogue exp before C15 (otoh, Galeforce helps his training significantly due to how short things are and essentially doubling player phase exp). Finally there’s something to be said about a high mag Rescue family of Valk Robin or something, but I haven’t looked into that in a while.

But really I think equal (or more) credit should be given to Veteran here, otherwise Robin wouldn’t even get Galeforce until far later and all this would be pretty moot.

Additionally, some (really most) bosses are extremely hard to one-round reliably, so Olivia sometimes needs to be brought up as well as the combat unit, which will require extensive Rescue chains and/or slowing down (need to protect her, and if giving her a Galeforcer for mobility probably means no 3 move Galepair anyway).

If Rescue didn’t exist, I think you’d be expected to leak a lot more turns, especially wrt to Olivia’s use and also later when you probably have to reclass into 6 move Sorc for the durability.

this post is totally cohesive and not train-of-thought rambling

@Ownagepuff: There's a few nice themes interspersed throughout. Anyways, congrats, Lunatic+ time? ;P

@Varidan:

For Sully, I would promote to Assassin, which is a nice Pair Up that gives Strength and Speed. If she gets to level 10 Assassin, can reclass in Paladin which gives all the big physical stats in Pair Up for Kjelle. If you would rather her remain a main combat unit, probably still promote first (unless you have a lot of extra Second Seals), then reclass to Paladin or Wyvern for more well-rounded, yet high bases and weapon triangle. If not grinding, stuff like Aegis is really far away, so just pass Discipline or Outdoor Fighter or Avoid+10 or a proc or something.

For Avatar. Passing Veteran will make things much easier for Morgan and Nah.

In general, you can use all those children in nogrind, but it’d help to recruit them relatively early. Inigo might also be challenging to train up since he’s hard to recruit (very strong enemies) and usually has low bases from Olivia.

[Ownagepuffs]

Truthfully I'm not very interested in L+ at the moment. Maybe one day. I still have great respect for the difficulty and all who have beaten it though, don't get me wrong.

[Irysa]

Someone convince me there is actually an interesting/fun way to do Chapter 21 before I just say "fuck it", underdeploy and walk Tiki to the end of the map whilst having Robin and Chrom pick up loot.

[Ownagepuffs]

There is no fun way to do C21. The chapter is designed to not be fun. No fun allowed.

The only gimmick is Mire.

[XeKr]

There’s a clear puzzle-like quality to it if deploying Olivia+Rescuers (to facilitate a quick clear) between opening doors/getting the chests, avoiding reinforcements/Mire, and reaching the boss.

Otherwise, Tiki ftw, too op. ;P

Edited March 3, 2015 by XeKr

[eclipse]

I like C24's map design, but I feel like the enemy placement didn't utilize it at all. Like, I'd love to have engaged them in the forest farther up, but the enemies are pretty much right on top of me as soon as the map starts. I have no incentive to push to control more of the forest because they're bringing themselves in piecemeal for my guys to mop up, while I hardly lift a finger.

If not 1-turning C25, it gives some incentive push and take control of one side of the mountain or other, but I think it's really just too late to the party to convince more people to stick around and fight it out. I think C25 is what C23 should have been.

I'd agree, if it wasn't for those stupid reinforcements. Turtle too long, and you'll be surrounded.

Someone convince me there is actually an interesting/fun way to do Chapter 21 before I just say "fuck it", underdeploy and walk Tiki to the end of the map whilst having Robin and Chrom pick up loot.

One-turn it.

You should be able to outrun the reinforcements. I wasn't too lucky with Tiki, and she was murdered by the Assassins (even with a Say'ri pair-up). Best I can suggest is to keep all the Pass Assassins alive, so your other troops can get some experience.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Re: Galeforce/Rescue:

The tricky part, however, is that usually Galeforce requires Dark Flier 15. Actual reliability is a major concern in attaining the benchmarks necessary, given how little exp there is, and how fast enemy stats increase.

The Galeforce family is generally FRobin + Morgan (+some Chrom for endgame, his accuracy is going to be terrible notably).

My GF family is Chrom x Sumia + Robin x Cordelia. It requires a lot slower of a pace than most people would consider efficiency and Severa's paralogue can sometimes cause trouble but it's well worth it for 6 GF units.

Truthfully I'm not very interested in L+ at the moment. Maybe one day. I still have great respect for the difficulty and all who have beaten it though, don't get me wrong.

If you just want to watch KTT is streaming it around every other day right now (resetless run testing).

[Ownagepuffs]

Yeah I tune into his stream when I get the opportunity. I wish more people would, to clear up L+ misconceptions.

[Interceptor]

Someone convince me there is actually an interesting/fun way to do Chapter 21 before I just say "fuck it", underdeploy and walk Tiki to the end of the map whilst having Robin and Chrom pick up loot.

I've found that taking 85 Turns and doing a Scorched Earth full clear with Mire, is very therapeutic.

[Gradivus.]

do some random stuff like only killing one enemy each EP and complete in 3 turns with the droppable Mire and all chests, including the skill book which you totally need, obtained.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Gradivus.