Varidan Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I've been using my Lunatic file to practice L+ maneuvers, mostly ones listed in Interceptor's guide, like the turtling and such. I know a lot of them can be overkill for vanilla Lunatic, but they still get the job done. In any case, one thing that came to my attention was Ch. 5. While turtling in the corner, many of the fighters have gamble, and Frederick, with his abyssmal luck, is vulnerable to crits. Is there any way to help deal with that, short of mashing the reset button? I tried pairing Lissa with him, but it only dropped him from 8% listed to 6%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Get Fred/Lissa to C support. That way, when she's standing beside him in Interceptor's tanking formation, she'll add 2 support levels to the 1 that Kellam already provides, giving +10 Dodge. Fred should have 16 Dodge this way, which will negate all of the Gamble Barb's crit rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varidan Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Ooh, very nice. I'll have to make sure to do that. Those early supports seem to be very crucial to early L+ levels. Anyways, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Greetings, friends!I have recently begun my arduous treck through Ylisse, but on Lunatic, and I'm hoping I could find some guidance and such.I made it to Chapter 1 but I had some bad levels and I restarted.I have a Male Avatar, and when I restart, I was thinking I was gonna do +Magic, -Luck, but if you guys have any suggestions for something better, I'd be willing to listen.Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 +Spd and Def are typically the optimal assets, with +Def being a lot safer in general but +Spd letting you pull more shenanigans if you're good and/or lucky. -Skl is usually the best flaw, as -Lck hurts both your offenses and increases enemy crit rates, which you will learn to loathe in due time as pretty much every Barb has Gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Do you suppose -Res would work? I wouldn't think I'd need it too much, but obviously, I could be wrong.If it doesn't, yeah, I'll go ahead and do -Skl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 It usually won't hurt, except where it does, and in those places it'll hurt a lot. Still one of the more manageable flaws, though. The main concern would be the -5% Spd growth it brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Doesn't -skill slightly offset your def growth though? I suppose on paper the main reason you pick the def asset is to have higher base def so that you reach tanky critical mass faster/more reliably, but since Luna+ exists isn't +speed -luck slightly more favorable overall for an overleveled Robin? I don't really read the Luna+ threads (since I want to try to just clear it myself without such explictly detailed help) but iirc the most reliable C2 clear relies on +speed doesn't it? Currently I made it to C2 of L+ without much of a fuss myself but am going back to try to reoptimise EXP a bit since I'm not happy with how much EXP Fred took on the first wave of Prologue, which has knockon effects into C1. (Also relying on at least one Chrom DS on Turn 1 might not be terribly hard to reset for but I'm positive there's a better way and I'll find it) Edited March 13, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah, -Skl does make Def growth take a hit. That statistically only amounts to a bit less than 1 point every 20 levels, though. As for feeding Fred less in Prologue, see the guide in my sig. All Fred takes is a Mage, a Myrm and some striking EXP to weaken a Barb. Everything else goes to Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knusperkeks Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Personally, I like +Speed, -Skill, because luck is important for strategies which work with Armsthrift. +Speed gives luck a 5% increased growth, and -Skill doesn't affect luck growth. Generally, an overleveled Avatar doesn't have many problems hitting a target, so the skill flaw doesn't hurt as much after a few chapters in earlygame. Edited March 13, 2015 by Knusperkeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) @KTT I was well aware of your guide probably being a good resource but I wanted to figure stuff out myself, that's all. The first thing I was doing was my first Lunatic strat where I had Fred chip the top Barb with Robin in the back unequipped, then Chrom transferring Robin out, killing the Barb over Fred's head and Lissa doing w/e or pairing into Fred. This lets Fred chip a Barb on EP and Robin chip the Myrm on EP, then Robin once again shoots over the Myrm's head to get the second Barb and Fred walls off below Robin to protect her from the second Myrm with a Bronze Sword. Unfortunately, obviously this doesn't work out if Luna+ or Pass are in play, so dumping Fred+Chrom in the middle and relying on at least one DS from Chrom vs Barbs, killing both Myrms then giving the Mage and one of the remainng Barbs to Robin was the next thing I did. That isn't really exp efficient though so we get to the next somewhat obvious conclusion - using the water somewhere to help out with the enemy spread. Up is a no go so you have to go right, and I developed off that. I did briefly check your strategy for the first few turns once I'd gotten one of my own that resulted in the same kill spread. What I ended up doing was similar, but slightly different since I let Robin fight the Myrm twice, chugging a a vulnerary whilst on the water if neccessary instead of putting Chrom out front and then trying to finish off the Myrm with Thunder on the other side of the gap. Fred EP hit the second Barb and retreated, then Robin kills that Barb next turn (doesn't matter if the Myrm is dead), getting a Heal from Lissa and then finally killing the Myrm if he didn't die as he comes back around the gap. I guess if the Mage has V+/L+ or other things Fred might also need to chug a Vulnerary with this which I suppose is a waste for the rest of the Water trick when killing the Mage. Shrug. Edited March 13, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knusperkeks Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think it's funny that prologue mages - while fighting base fred - get as much value out of Luna+ as they get out of Magic+2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 ^It's possible for them to get less out of it, by not having Lissa paired to Fred. Since the game rounds half of 3 to 2, this conditionally makes Magic +2 the superior skill, which is even funnier. Irysa: Fair enough. Just thought I'd point it out since you mentioned you were having issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knusperkeks Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 ^It's possible for them to get less out of it, by not having Lissa paired to Fred. Since the game rounds half of 3 to 2, this conditionally makes Magic +2 the superior skill, which is even funnier. I wrote base fred. Base fred doesn't have Lissa stuck on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Irysa: Fair enough. Just thought I'd point it out since you mentioned you were having issues. It's quite alright. Your guide made me consider some things I hadn't thought of anyway when I briefly skimmed afterwards, such as the prospect of attempting to reach C Tomes in Prologue for +1 mt in Chapter 1 (actually a really big deal). Edited March 13, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I wrote base fred. Base fred doesn't have Lissa stuck on him. Okay. Wasn't entirely sure or not if you were counting a Lissa pair, since you equated Luna+ and Magic +2. In any case: level 1 Mage skill situationally overpowering a Lunatic+ skill. It's quite alright. Your guide made me consider some things I hadn't thought of anyway when I briefly skimmed afterwards, such as the prospect of attempting to reach C Tomes in Prologue for +1 mt in Chapter 1 (actually a really big deal). Yeah, the extra non-growth-dependant damage is a real boon when Robin is short on... well, basically everything. The Vulneraries being carried into C1 and C2 can also make a big difference by saving Elixir uses. Even carrying just one Elixir use into C3, C5 or C6 can make the situation a whole lot safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Since the game rounds half of 3 to 2 Pretty sure Awakening rounds down in all cases, including Def/Res against Luna(+)...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Pretty sure Awakening rounds down in all cases, including Def/Res against Luna(+)...? The math is right, he just worded it weirdly. Luna+ ignores half of 3, which the game truncates to 1, leaving 2 RES left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Inteceptor beat me to it. And yeah, sorry about the wording. Routing has me taking that fact for granted so much that I just kind of shorthanded it in a way that didn't explain the steps the game was actually taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eselred Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I had read over and over about Lunatic runs and how good the Avatar was, but I didn't actually believe it until I played Lunatic myself. Female Avatar x Chrom just steamrolls everything, and Lucina x male Morgan is pretty amazing too, but everyone else just falls by the wayside to The Family of Doom. Tharja x Lon'Qu has turned out all right, but it was really iffy for a while if Tharja missed a Nos hit or didn't drain back much health, she was done for. I'm on Chapter 16 now, and The Avatar Train keeps on rolling. She's a Sorcerer with Galeforce and Armsthrift and has 50 LCK with a Chrom pairup for 100% AT. She's pretty much invincible now, with forged Nos, Ruin, Waste and Mire because they will never lose durability. I think I am going to keep reclassing her as a Sorc at this point. Lucina/Morgan and Tharja/Lon'Qu just make the chapters go faster because they can spread out and kill more enemies, but pale in comparison to the Avatar. Though I guess in time, Lucina and Morgan will end up better than the Avatar, but I'm just dashing towards the finish line now. PS - I did +SPD -SKL, and the only time the Avatar had any difficulty with Hit was very early on when using a Thunder tome. Edited March 15, 2015 by Eselred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 You might want to consider Dark Knight as an option. Eventually you'll get far enough ahead of the curve that Nos won't even be that important in keeping you alive (especially if you got Sol/once you get Lifetaker), and its extra Mov is useful for clearing the multitude of upcoming Kill Boss chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eselred Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 You might want to consider Dark Knight as an option. Eventually you'll get far enough ahead of the curve that Nos won't even be that important in keeping you alive (especially if you got Sol/once you get Lifetaker), and its extra Mov is useful for clearing the multitude of upcoming Kill Boss chapters. Maybe...I'm on Chapter 20 now and she's only a level 12 Sorc. EXP has slowed WAY down now because of the level 50 internal cap. She only gains like 12 EXP per kill with Veteran equipped, which I'm thinking of removing but don't really have anything else better to use right now. Basically, the game has become Family of Doom smash with staff users to Rescue spam and Anna/Gaius to open chests. Tharja/Lon'Qu are still doing all right (however LQ barely does any damage now), but the rest of the units are nearly worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 12 EXP is still a relatively rapid gain when the amount of enemies on any given map is taken into account. Like, Robin should still easily gain 2-3 levels in a chapter if she's the main tank. More if she doesn't have to share kills with other units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlow369 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Starting Lunatic+ today, I'm scared. The recommend MU build is +Def -Luck correct? And does the water trick work on Lunatic+ sounds hard to pull off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think -Skill is better than -Luck personally. Water trick works and is pretty easy. KTT's Lunatic+ thread showcases a good way to allow Lissa to cycle healing on Avatar safely whilst fighting the Mage, which allows you to save Vulneraries for the harder maps afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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