Lethality+Critical Hit?

[Disinnocence]

So, I was playing, and Gaius triggered Lethality and THEN did a critical hit in the same attack.

So, I thought, how does that even work? XD

Did it just give me a more powerful kill?

Did they cancel each other out? XD

I don't know.

I just thought it was funny...

[LeThiAnh]

As the one that married him in my game, Lethality > Crit. I always paid attention to the numbers and every time he 'crits' during lethality, it's literally just the HP of the enemy. Lethality just negates the crit.

[zahlman]

I'll kill you three times!

[Iridium]

I'll kill you three times!

If Sully could do it, she would do it six times.

[Deshiva]

When lethality crits, their family dies.

[Topaz Light]

If Sully could do it, she would do it six times.

She can do it, actually; she can change to Myrmidon and then promote to Assassin, and from there it's just a few level ups to Lethality.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Starlight36

[Iridium]

She can do it, actually; she can change to Myrmidon and then promote to Assassin, and from there it's just a few level ups to Lethality.

"I should check before submitting my post... nah, what are the odds?"

why does real life use 1 rng

[nocturnal YL]

This only happened to me once, but I think leathity hits are counted as infinity for calculation purpose. If you use Lethality on someone with Miracle and Counter, you'll die despite having more HP than the enemy... I think.

Which makes Miracle + Counter + anything that raises luck a very useful combination for StreetPass battles.

[Goblinaro]

This only happened to me once, but I think leathity hits are counted as infinity for calculation purpose. If you use Lethality on someone with Miracle and Counter, you'll die despite having more HP than the enemy... I think.

Which makes Miracle + Counter + anything that raises luck a very useful combination for StreetPass battles.

Except against ranged attacks. :P

Although that is an interesting observation/theory. I hope someone is willing to try this out and record the results.

[eclipse]

I decided to research this, because it intrigued me. Unfortunately, Miracle's activation is Luck%, which means that you're looking at a coin flip chance of surviving.

[nocturnal YL]

I decided to research this, because it intrigued me. Unfortunately, Miracle's activation is Luck%, which means that you're looking at a coin flip chance of surviving.

Have Chrom marry Mariabelle, and have female +Luck MU marry Brady. Now Morgan has a high Luck cap and Rightful King, and can be Luck+Spectrum rallied.

Now we have Luck+9 Morgan whose luck can be given a further +12. Now he has a 66% chance of Miracle activation. If he's on the player's side, pair him up with a Swordmaster (like Owain) gives +3(base)+2(support)+3(stat bonus), and that's 74%.

If you allow DLC stuff, All Stats +2 gives +2, Limit Breaker gives +10, and Love Cry gives +2. That's 88%.

...Alright, I went overboard.

Don't have what it takes to try this myself. I'll need to have a Counter+Miracle unit first, then wait for some Lethality, melee-only unit to show up. It'd be simpler to have two 3DS units (of the same region) in the first place.

EDIT - Edited that awfully incorrect calculation.

Edited February 18, 2013 by nocturnal YL

[Goblinaro]

Have Chrom marry Mariabelle, and have female +Luck MU marry Brady. Now Morgan has a high Luck cap and Rightful King, and can be Luck+Spectrum rallied.

Now we have Luck+9 Morgan whose luck can be given a further +12. Now he has a 66% chance of Miracle activation. If he's on the player's side, pair him up with a Swordmaster (like Owain) gives +3(base)+2(support)+3(stat bonus), and that's 74%.

If you allow DLC stuff, All Stats +2 gives +2, Limit Breaker gives +10, and Love Cry gives +2. That's 88%.

...Alright, I went overboard.

Don't have what it takes to try this myself. I'll need to have a Counter+Miracle unit first, then wait for some Lethality, melee-only unit to show up. It'd be simpler to have two 3DS units (of the same region) in the first place.

EDIT - Edited that awfully incorrect calculation.

Actually, Male Morgan should be able to support with Lucina. If so, the Great Lord class gives +4 Luck with class modifiers, +3 (since it's likely that Lucina will get over 30 luck with Maribelle as her mother) from stat bonus, and +2 with support (although it'll probably be A support, since I doubt Male Morgan can get S support with Lucina if he's her nephew). So that'll be an extra point.

On top of that, if you do make Lucina get an A-S rank support with Male Morgan and promote him into a class that can use bows (such as a Sniper or an Assassin), then you can give him Nidhogg which grants +10 luck. That's 99% Miracle rate!! And as an optional measure, if you don't mind sacrificing 2%, you could forgo All Stats +2 for Armsthrift (which Male Morgan will automatically start with since his base class is Mercenary if Brady is his father) and have unlimited uses for Nidhogg with a 97% Miracle with Limit Breaker, Rightful King, Counter and Armsthrift. This would be perfect since bows are good for range and anyone attacking him while placed adjacently would receive the same damage.

EDIT:

Okay, so looking through that post I'm kind of confused with your calculations. How exactly does Rightful King work? Does it just slap on +10% to the activation rate, or does it increase the activation rate as it is by a product of 10% (in other words, Activation Rate +.1 versus Activation Rate *1.1)? Maybe you forgot to add them into your calculations? It appears that you might have, seeing as how you have the +9 stat modifiers for Luck from +Luck Female MU and Brady combined, but you go from that (which should be 54 luck) straight to the Rally Luck/Spectrum boost of +12 without mentioning Rightful King again. Depending on which the game does changes the calculations a bit.

If it's the former, then the calculations should go:

Chrom x Maribelle, Female MU (asset/flaw +Luck/-[one of Resistance, Skill, Magic, or Strength; any other flaw will lower MU's luck modifier by one) x Brady.

Male Morgan's Luck cap becomes 54, inherits Rightful King (+10% skill activation rates) for 64% Miracle, and Rallied with Rally Luck/Spectrum (+12 luck total with both Rally skills) for 76% Miracle.

Pair with A- or S-rank support with Lucina (Great Lord) for +4 Luck class modifier, +3 Luck stat modifier, and +2 Luck support level bonus for an additional +9 Luck, totaling to 85% Miracle.

As a unit that can use bows (assassin for example) Nidhogg can be equipped for +10 Luck totaling to 95% Miracle. Armsthrift will offset the possibility of Nidhogg breaking.

Having DLC skills Limit Breaker equipped for +10 Luck and Rallied by an ally with Rally Love for +2 Luck gives an additional +12 Luck, totaling to 107% Luck.

Final skills equipped to Morgan himself being Miracle, Counter, Rightful King, Limit Breaker, and Armsthrift. The final Luck stat (not the Miracle activation rate) is 97.

If it's the latter, then the calculations should go:

Chrom x Maribelle, Female MU (asset/flaw +Luck/-[one of Resistance, Skill, Magic, or Strength; any other flaw will lower MU's luck modifier by one) x Brady.

Male Morgan's Luck cap becomes 54, inherits Rightful King (+10% skill activation rate, so activation rate boost for Miracle is .54*.1=.054 or 5.4% increase) for 59% Miracle, and Rallied with Rally Luck/Spectrum (+12 luck total with both Rally skills) for 71% Miracle.

Pair with A- or S-rank support with Lucina (Great Lord) for +4 Luck class modifier, +3 Luck stat modifier, and +2 Luck support level bonus for an additional +9 Luck, totaling to 80% Miracle.

As a unit that can use bows (assassin for example) Nidhogg can be equipped for +10 Luck totaling to 90% Miracle. Armsthrift will offset the possibility of Nidhogg breaking.

Having DLC skills Limit Breaker equipped for +10 Luck and Rallied by an ally with Rally Love for +2 Luck gives an additional +12 Luck, totaling to 102% Miracle.

Final skills equipped to Morgan himself being Miracle, Counter, Rightful King, Limit Breaker, and Armsthrift. The final Luck stat (not the Miracle activation rate) is 97.

And if you really wanted to, you could use Luck Tonics to increase your Luck stat by +2 until the end of the chapter/skirmish that you're currently in. So not only is a 100% Miracle possible, but a 100 Luck stat is as well (if only temporary).

Good luck getting a critical on that! :P

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Does anyone know if Sol can activate when inflicting damage via Counter on an enemy? I don't think it can, but I'm brainstorming on ways to self-sustain Morgan's HP with this strategy and if by some off chance Sol could activate with Counter that'd be awesome.

Okay, so what I've figured is that if you want a self-sufficient Morgan (HP recovery wise) to do this strategy, is to keep everything the same, except instead of Morgan being an Assassin with Nidhogg, he'd be a Sorcerer with a forged Aversa's Night (forged to have +15 Critical, +15 Hit.). He would lose the +10 Luck bonus from Nidhogg, (putting his luck at 87 in either of the cases above and Miracle activation rate at 97% in the former and 92% in the latter cases above) but would compensate with Luck Tonics (2 in the former case and 4 in the latter case) and will still end up with an activation rate of 100% for Miracle. Plus, Morgan would now be able to recover half the HP inflicted on the opponent from Aversa's Night (which is better now that it's forged), and unlike the Nidhogg, Aversa's Night can attack adjacent opponents as well as ranged opponents due to it being a tome and not a bow. Of course, this Morgan wouldn't have Vengeance or Anathema equipped while this strategy is in work, so Morgan might have some trouble against enemies with a high Resistance, the Aegis skill, or the Tomebreaker skill. But her supports with Lucina (support unit of pair) and either Brady/Female MU with their Rally skills should help her.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Goblinaro

[nocturnal YL]

The +10% given by Rightful King is an absolute 10%, not (original%)*110%. So it should be 97 Luck and 107% Miracle activation. (Plus Luck Tonic and temporary stat boost from barrack, but that'd just be an overkill.) Thanks for pointing that out.

And that gave me an idea: place a Miracle+Counter bow unit next to a Lethality unit like SpotPass Jaffar (LvD3 Jaffar has it too, but he also has a bow in addition to his sword), and keep trying until he tries to assassinate that unit. If Miracle activates, my question will be answered.

Sol cannot activate over Counter. Counter isn't even considered an attack by the unit. You get no experience for Counter-killing.

Morgan can't self-sustain HP as a bow unit. But on the plus side, only 4 enemies can attack without potentially getting Sol'd.

Edited February 18, 2013 by nocturnal YL

[Goblinaro]

The +10% given by Rightful King is an absolute 10%, not (original%)*110%. So it should be 97 Luck and 107% Miracle activation. (Plus Luck Tonic and temporary stat boost from barrack, but that'd just be an overkill.) Thanks for pointing that out.

And that gave me an idea: place a Miracle+Counter bow unit next to a Lethality unit like SpotPass Jaffar (LvD3 Jaffar has it too, but he also has a bow in addition to his sword), and keep trying until he tries to assassinate that unit. If Miracle activates, my question will be answered.

Sol cannot activate over Counter. Counter isn't even considered an attack by the unit. You get no experience for Counter-killing.

Morgan can't self-sustain HP as a bow unit. But on the plus side, only 4 enemies can attack without potentially getting Sol'd.

Gotcha. I wasn't holding my breath or anything about Sol/Counter, but it's nice to get confirmations.

And yeah, I realized that Morgan can't self-sustain his HP as a Bow unit with this setup. You'd have to give up Rightful King for Sol (which, if you used Luck Tonics will still put you at over 100 Luck so Miracle would still be guaranteed) but you'd still be screwed if they all rushed you adjacently and one managed to get you to 1 HP before the enemy was done sending units to attack that turn. But Sorcerer + Nosferatu/Aversa's Night Morgan can self-sustain HP so that would work well.

And do you mean to make Morgan a bow user and place him next to a Lethality unit like SpotPass Jaffar so that Jaffar would keep trying to use Lethality while not risking him being killed by Morgan adjacently due to being a bow user?

And also, note that it will be INCREDIBLY hard for Jaffar (or any other SpotPass Lethality user for that matter) to hit Morgan to begin with because of all the boosts he has. Lots of the boost are not just specifically Luck, but with multiple stats as well.

Remember that Avoid is (Speed x 3 + Luck)/2.

Regardless of whether or not Morgan will be a Sorcerer, Assassin or a Sniper, he's going to have at least 40 Speed if he maxes it out. Lucina will also give +9 Speed when paired up with Morgan with an A- or S-rank support and at least 30 Speed as a Great Lord, plus 10 more speed for Limit Breaker if speed is maxed out with that, and then +4 speed for Rally Spectrum and +2 Speed for Rally Love, putting him at 65 speed minimum if his Speed is capped with the cap at 40, which depending on class could be higher. And with Morgan as-is, with him paired with Lucina and receiving all the necessary Rally boosts, he'll be at 97 Luck without any Luck Tonics.

(65x3 + 97)/2 = 292/2 = 146 avoid. And that's not even including any Avoid boosts that he'll get from his Support Rank with Lucina and anyone else that might be beside him.

So you'll basically need to be VERY patient with this as it's likely that the enemy Lethality unit will be missing quite a lot, especially if the unit's not max level/stats. And you may want to unequip the weapons on the allies or supporting units around Morgan just in case the enemy Lethality unit decides to attack someone other than Morgan and the supporting ally accidentally kills him/her.

Good luck man. (no pun intended)

EDIT: If it's possible, if you or someone that lives near you also has a 3DS and a copy of the game, if someone could start a new file and go Chrom x Olivia for Assassin Inigo. Then go Inigo x Female MU (+Skill/-Res) for a Male Morgan and go Assassin with him. As an Assassin, equip the skills Lethality (of course), Rightful King (from Inigo), Limit Breaker, Skill +2 (level 1 Archer skill), and All Stats +2 while capping his stats after getting Limit Breaker. This way he'll have a 55 Skill cap normally, 65 Skill cap after Limit Breaker, and then +4 Skill from All Stats +2 and Skill +2, putting him at 69 Skill. That'll give him a 17% activation rate (rounded down) for Lethality before Rightful King, and then 27% activation rate afterwards. If he's given Mystletainn then his Skill becomes 74, and his final Lethality activation rate 28%. That's probably the highest activation rate that an enemy Lethality unit can have in StreetPass since enemies can't use Rally Skills or Pair bonuses. If you can accomplish this, and get this Assassin Morgan onto your file as a StreetPass enemy, this'll probably be your best bet.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Goblinaro

[eclipse]

Alas, the only DLC I have is the free stuff (Champions of Yore 1).

Even though I'm not going to do THAT much work for a guaranteed Miracle (I'd need a pile of Luck Tonics to pull this off reliably), this gave me an idea for something else, which I'll try. . .uh, later. Thanks~!

EDIT: If I pull this off, I'll start another topic for it (probably).

Edited February 18, 2013 by eclipse

[Naui]

Well the only true way I know to stop Leathality is to get a Support Block. I mean Shadowofchaos posted videos of it happening, and I've had it happen with me one.

[Flying Shogi]

Dunno if this helps but since Chrom has access to the Archer class, his children can get the Hit+20 skill as a Sniper.

Edited February 18, 2013 by MagicLugh

[Darth_Lavos]

EDIT: If it's possible, if you or someone that lives near you also has a 3DS and a copy of the game, if someone could start a new file and go Chrom x Olivia for Assassin Inigo. Then go Inigo x Female MU (+Skill/-Res) for a Male Morgan and go Assassin with him. As an Assassin, equip the skills Lethality (of course), Rightful King (from Inigo), Limit Breaker, Skill +2 (level 1 Archer skill), and All Stats +2 while capping his stats after getting Limit Breaker. This way he'll have a 55 Skill cap normally, 65 Skill cap after Limit Breaker, and then +4 Skill from All Stats +2 and Skill +2, putting him at 69 Skill. That'll give him a 17% activation rate (rounded down) for Lethality before Rightful King, and then 27% activation rate afterwards. If he's given Mystletainn then his Skill becomes 74, and his final Lethality activation rate 28%. That's probably the highest activation rate that an enemy Lethality unit can have in StreetPass since enemies can't use Rally Skills or Pair bonuses. If you can accomplish this, and get this Assassin Morgan onto your file as a StreetPass enemy, this'll probably be your best bet.

AI can definitely Rally, they just normally don't because attacking takes precedence over it. In order to really build around it you'd need to make your character a general to slow thrm down. You could possibly get another +10 skill between skill, love and spectrum rallies. Personally though, I don't think the AI isn't really reliable enough to build that around.

Also, while Mystellain does give the highest lethality per hit rate, I believe that lethality can proc on the second hit of a brave weapon, giving you a psuedo lethality rate of (lethality percentage +(percentage not to proc * lethality percentage) or in this case, (27% + (63% * 27%)) = 44% chance per attack. If you double with a brave weapon(probably won't happen due to pair up) then you have a (.63^4)*100 = 15.7% chance of lethality NOT proccing.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Darth_Lavos

[Goblinaro]

AI can definitely Rally, they just normally don't because attacking takes precedence over it. In order to really build around it you'd need to make your character a general to slow thrm down. You could possibly get another +10 skill between skill, love and spectrum rallies. Personally though, I don't think the AI isn't really reliable enough to build that around.

Also, while Mystellain does give the highest lethality per hit rate, I believe that lethality can proc on the second hit of a brave weapon, giving you a psuedo lethality rate of (lethality percentage +(percentage not to proc * lethality percentage) or in this case, (27% + (63% * 27%)) = 44% chance per attack. If you double with a brave weapon(probably won't happen due to pair up) then you have a (.63^4)*100 = 15.7% chance of lethality NOT proccing.

Oh wow, I wasn't considering the possibility of the Brave weapons giving them another chance to activate Lethality. So, totally noob question here, but what do you mean by "proc/proccing?" I don't recall any terms or shortened terms that I can think of when it comes to game mechanics, so I was kind of scratching my head when reading about that. Is it just the activation rate in this case? ?:/

[Fruity Insanity]

Oh wow, I wasn't considering the possibility of the Brave weapons giving them another chance to activate Lethality. So, totally noob question here, but what do you mean by "proc/proccing?" I don't recall any terms or shortened terms that I can think of when it comes to game mechanics, so I was kind of scratching my head when reading about that. Is it just the activation rate in this case? ?:/

Yep.

[Airship Canon]

Well the only true way I know to stop Leathality is to get a Support Block. I mean Shadowofchaos posted videos of it happening, and I've had it happen with me one.

It can also miss or Miracle could proc.

Oh wow, I wasn't considering the possibility of the Brave weapons giving them another chance to activate Lethality. So, totally noob question here, but what do you mean by "proc/proccing?" I don't recall any terms or shortened terms that I can think of when it comes to game mechanics, so I was kind of scratching my head when reading about that. Is it just the activation rate in this case? ?:/

Proc- Procure, something happened. It's an activation.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Airship Canon