LycopolisKing Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 So Walhart's Paralogue chapter was released today for Spotpass, and I picked him up and made him into a Griffon Rider, for justifiable reasons that remain to be seen. He comes with a shiny skill called Conquest that's supposed to block Bonus damage. And I didn't think anything of it until he took about 35 damage from a bow. Err. Does this skill have to trigger? Or, does it only work in base class? Or... is it just for added shininess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSentinel Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think it only negates Beast and Armor weaknesses, not flying weaknesses. So like a Beast Killer or Armorslayer would not do bonus damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LycopolisKing Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think it only negates Beast and Armor weaknesses, not flying weaknesses. So like a Beast Killer or Armorslayer would not do bonus damage. Mmm. That's probably it. Which is a bummer, seeing as the flying bonus damage in this game is brutal. Not nearly as bad as Radiant Dawn, but harsh nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Mmm. That's probably it. Which is a bummer, seeing as the flying bonus damage in this game is brutal. Not nearly as bad as Radiant Dawn, but harsh nonetheless. That it is. The Iote's Shield skill, which is DLC only, is needed to negate flier effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked_Hunter1825 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Iotes Shield should solve that problem. When the DLC is released. A few weeks from now. EDIT: Someone beat me to it. Edited March 1, 2013 by Masked_Hunter1825 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinaro Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Erm....I had thought that Conquest did cancel out the Griffon Rider weakness. Are you absolutely sure that he took Weapon Effective damage, or are you only sure that he happened to take a lot of damage from a bow? Reclassing Walhart from Conqueror to Griffon Rider reduces his Defense by 4, leaving his Defense stat as a level 1 Griffon Rider (if you reclass him before leveling him at all) at 30-37 (depending on the difficulty) so if the enemy was truly that powerful then it *might* be plausible. Also, did the enemy double attack or single attack, and if double attack was it 35 damage total or 35 damage from one hit (regardless of whether or not it was a double attack or a single attack)? If you're sure that Walhart took Weapon Effective damage from a bow as a Griffon Rider, then the description of the Conquest skill should be changed, as it currently lists "beast" units as being Horse, Pegasus, Griffon Riders and Taguel units. edit: The text in the attached image in the smaller font size shows up when you mouse over the underlined word "beast." My mouse isn't shown because I have my mouse cursor set to hidden in IrfanView. Edited March 1, 2013 by Goblinaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LycopolisKing Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Erm....I had thought that Conquest did cancel out the Griffon Rider weakness. Are you absolutely sure that he took Weapon Effective damage, or are you only sure that he happened to take a lot of damage from a bow? Reclassing Walhart from Conqueror to Griffon Rider reduces his Defense by 4, leaving his Defense stat as a level 1 Griffon Rider (if you reclass him before leveling him at all) at 30-37 (depending on the difficulty) so if the enemy was truly that powerful then it *might* be plausible. Also, did the enemy double attack or single attack, and if double attack was it 35 damage total or 35 damage from one hit (regardless of whether or not it was a double attack or a single attack)? If you're sure that Walhart took Weapon Effective damage from a bow as a Griffon Rider, then the description of the Conquest skill should be changed, as it currently lists "beast" units as being Horse, Pegasus, Griffon Riders and Taguel units. edit: The text in the attached image in the smaller font size shows up when you mouse over the underlined word "beast." My mouse isn't shown because I have my mouse cursor set to hidden in IrfanView. My thoughts exactly. But then he got cleaved by an arrow in a single attack. I'm playing on hard mode, and he was paired with MU who had capped Sorcerer defense at the time, with an A support. I think that the bonus damage the skill blocks is the 'beast' part of the damage. Bows don't do extra damage to beasts, but to fliers...which seems to be another type of bonus damage altogether. I will attempt to get a good screenshot with Morgan, as I've already reclassed Walhart (again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinaro Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 My thoughts exactly. But then he got cleaved by an arrow in a single attack. I'm playing on hard mode, and he was paired with MU who had capped Sorcerer defense at the time, with an A support. I think that the bonus damage the skill blocks is the 'beast' part of the damage. Bows don't do extra damage to beasts, but to fliers...which seems to be another type of bonus damage altogether. I will attempt to get a good screenshot with Morgan, as I've already reclassed Walhart (again). Actually, what you said makes sense. I believe that the Griffon Rider class is listed as both a Beast class and a Flier class, and that Conquest would protect Walhart from weapons like the Beast Killer lance, but not against weapons like bows or Wind-based tomes. I guess I subconsciously lumped the Flier category as a subcategory under Beasts and thought that Conquest would work for that as well. I guess it makes sense if you consider that Wyvern Riders are considered both dragon units and flying units, but that Iote's Shield wouldn't protect a Wyvern Rider from Wyrmsbane even though you could lump a dragon as a subcategory of fliers. I guess when considering Weapon Effectiveness it's necessary to consider each unit type's Weapon Effective damage weakness separate from one another. This also means that my previous statement of having the description for the "beast" classification for the Conquest skill is also potato. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Just give him the Iote's Shield when you kick Lyn's ass. That'll solve both effectiveness problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLeafeon Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think it's stupid that they made Iote's Shield a paid DLC and then released it months after the release. -_- Flying units are almost worthless in this game due to the effectiveness. Almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Flying units have a massive advantage. By existing and not being easy to remove, their weakness to arrows acts as a substantial check on that use, just like in every other game in the series. Where's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) I think it's stupid that they made Iote's Shield a paid DLC and then released it months after the release. -_- Flying units are almost worthless in this game due to the effectiveness. Almost. Yeah and needing it to break (fliers weakness) that mold. But you can also use Bowslayer to lessen the chance of them hitting you with bows. Combining this with Iote's will totally neglect their weakness. Just like in Pokemon Black/White and Black/White2 Moldbreaker (Negates hindering attack abilities)/Fake Out/Toxic/Gravity/Multi hitting moves like Double Kick are needed as Sturdy, Focus Sashes and Levitate are very annoying. Edited March 1, 2013 by Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think it's stupid that they made Iote's Shield a paid DLC and then released it months after the release. -_- Flying units are almost worthless in this game due to the effectiveness. Almost. They have to have some weaknesses, because flying is such a massive advantage for a high movement class(since ground Horse units have bigger terrain movement penalties) that even in Lunatic some fliers are worth bringing to certain chapters even if they're underleveled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lavos Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think it's stupid that they made Iote's Shield a paid DLC and then released it months after the release. -_- Flying units are almost worthless in this game due to the effectiveness. Almost. Almost worthless? What game are you playing bro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Conquest is an amazing skill, once you get Res.+10 and Limit Break your Ephraim/Walhart will (at least in theory) become an amazing, perhaps almost unbeatable tank. I'm not sure if they would need Sol/Renewal or not but if they do once you wait for DLC Ephraim go get him and start kicking rears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangellist Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Yeah and needing it to break (fliers weakness) that mold. But you can also use Bowslayer to lessen the chance of them hitting you with bows. Combining this with Iote's will totally neglect their weakness. Just like in Pokemon Black/White and Black/White2 Moldbreaker (Negates hindering attack abilities)/Fake Out/Toxic/Gravity/Multi hitting moves like Double Kick are needed as Sturdy, Focus Sashes and Levitate are very annoying. Good justification and example, Pokemon fan I see. O.o Metagame reference GOOOOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Good justification and example, Pokemon fan I see. O.o Metagame reference GOOOOO! It's one if not the best game series that Nintendo has, and I fricking love competitive play. Who else wouldn't? Anyways, since when did the fliers suck? Wyvern Lords are amazing here just like in FE10 (although not as great) and the Pegasus Knight classes have more variety than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Flying units are almost worthless in this game due to the effectiveness. Almost. >Flying units >Worthless What. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSentinel Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Yeah, flying units are quite awesome in this game and all fire emblem games. Wind magic and Bows are there to keep them from being the only units you deploy on every map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkeandMia Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 >Galeforce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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