Why Was Deirdre Not Supposed to Assossiate With Men?

[luigi bros]

Before you recruit Deirdre in FE4, it is mentioned she cannot assossiate with men.

I can interpret this in two ways;

1. She's a priestess or nun of some sort, and they are supposed to remain chaste.

2. They all know of her Lopt blood, and her reproducing could cause the return of Loputousu.

It's most likely the first one, given how people with Lopt blood are burnt at the stake, and thus her lineage is a secret, but I can't help but wonder if that's a factor.

Edited March 8, 2013 by luigi bros

[AstraLunaSol]

Pretty sure it's because of #2.

[Gone2Ground]

I like to think of it this way:

Jugdral got messed up because Deirdre and Sigurd couldn't keep it in their damn pants.

[Skarthe]

I am almost certain it's because of #2. Not everyone knew of her heritage, but word had probably gotten around that she wasn't supposed to associate with men.

[Rehab]

Going to the chapter dialogue if Sandima goes down before talking to Deirdre:

Diadora (to Sigurd):

The Dark Lord lies dormant within my blood, and through me they can resurrect him.

I was told they must never find me. I am also forbidden to be with a man.

(subsequently confesses love for Sigurd, ya silly boneheads)

And dialogue from the last village:

Villager:

There's a dense forest jus' north of this village. T'is called th' 'Spirit Forest'.

I used t'live there once upon a time in a village hidden deep within th' forest.

Th' legend goes that Saint Maira was exiled by his fellow Lopt clansmen for allying with us humans.

That village is where all of Maira's descendants holed up t'avoid persecution.

While I was there, a beautiful girl named Cigyun was living under th' village's custody.

That was due t'her bein' th' last remaining descendant of th' Loputo prince.

But Cigyun grew tired of th' forest life. She up and left thus breaking village law.

She returned several years later expectin' a child.

She gave birth to a little girl, but tragically didn't survive.

Apparently, the village fortune-teller took after raising the child.

I wonder where the child is now... If she's livin' she'd be around 17 or 18 I imagine.

So my understanding is that it's sort of 2, but it doesn't exactly sound like her existence is widely known outside the area, and she's technically not descended from the Dark Lord himself but from his brother who defected and became a hero, so I'm guessing the area locals who do know made an exception to the KILL ALL LOPTS bit for her family.

I forget if it's made clear or not that Arvis, of course also being Cigyun's child, has it well-known that he has Lopt blood or is forced to keep it a secret, for the possible combination of reasons that they'd have no way of knowing he's descended from Maira and not Loptousu (not sure if I spelled that right) and/or people might be leery of tolerating any Lopt blood in a noble house regardless of the technical origin, or if it's sort of known but just not a topic for polite conversation, and more used as a reason for people to be kinda scared as opposed to murderously scared of Arvis (and therefore still possibly among the reasons behind Arvis' egalitarian ideals).

Though I'm fairly certain I remember hearing at some point that Arvis had reason to worry about the possibility of his Lopt ancestry getting out or being gossiped about? But even if I am remembering that right, I'm not sure whether it was in a "if people get the slightest hint you have Lopt blood you're going to fry" way, or more a "people are going to be more reluctant to put you on the throne if it gets around that you have Lopt blood" way.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Rehab

[BrightBow]

I don't think you need to say "sort of". Deidre's words that you quoted sound like that #2 is spot on.

As for the palace gossip, reading the context of the designer notes talking about it, (namely the question of whether or not Alvis knew about Deidre being his half sister) I would say that the gossip was about Alvis' mother cheating on Victor with prince Kurt.

Well, and of course all the other stuff in Velthomer: Victor cheating on her, impregnating a maid, killing himself, etc...

And given that the discrimination against the descendants, Alvis would have never become the head of Veltomer if that was common knowledge.

So Alvis probably only knew once Manfroy told him.

Edited March 8, 2013 by BrightBow

[Rehab]

The reason I say sort of is that people know she does have Lopt blood, but her situation is treated differently from just anybody with Lopt blood or a cultist. If she were [thought to be] Loptousu's descendant, my guess is that her situation would be a lot less safe than it is with her being Maira's descendant, as it doesn't particularly seem like the people in the area are Lopt sympathizers in general, but she's both had the "sorry but I can't fall in love/have a kid with anybody" mostly respected (aside from the random creeper Sigurd chased off) and generally been left alone by the locals, alongside being allowed into their cities. So people "sort of" know of her Lopt blood, but because the person she got it from was a hero, she's not treated like your average Lopt case.

[luigi bros]

If they accept Deirdre because she is Maira's descendant, why wouldn't they accept Alvis for it?

Is it just because the Verdanians (is that the term?) are more accepting? Given that their soldiers are bandits, I can't imagine they'd be open to a Loptian woman. The people of Grandbell I would think are more civil, and would be more likely to accept a man of Maira's descent.

[Astelaine]

If they accept Deirdre because she is Maira's descendant, why wouldn't they accept Alvis for it?

Is it just because the Verdanians (is that the term?) are more accepting? Given that their soldiers are bandits, I can't imagine they'd be open to a Loptian woman. The people of Grandbell I would think are more civil, and would be more likely to accept a man of Maira's descent.

As I understand it, Lopt blood is hated/feared across Jugdral, because people don't want to return to the horrible evil empire days of Emperor Galle. They fear that someone with major Lopt blood would bring back the old tyrannies and child sacrificing with the help of the Lopt Cult (as did happen with Julius later.) Thusly, in every kingdom in Jugdral, there is an ongoing "witch hunt" for remaining bearers of Lopt blood. Diadora escaped persecution because she was brought up in a hidden village, with her descent presumably kept secret from everyone in Verdane, except the other hidden-villagers. The village is where the descendants of Saint Maira and his attendants had lived for centuries after Maira had defected from his predecessor Galle's cause. Because of that, the people in the village understood that Lopt blood alone does not make someone evil, but at the same time, they kept the remaining descendants (Diadora) tightly under control, so the blood would not be spread. Even people associated with the legacy of Maira don't want Lopt blood getting around, because the Lopt Cult is out there to make sure the blood is used for the dark lord to be revived.

Alvis grew up in a completely different enviroment - among the Grandbell nobility. Unlike Diadora, there was not anyone around who would be sympathetic to his situation. He lived constantly with the terror of being found out, knowing he could be denounced and burned at the stake. When the Lopt Cult found out about his lineage and approached him, he had to cooperate, out of fear the cultists would reveal his secret. Hence, he got swept up in the events of FE4 and ended up married to Diadora so Loputous could be revived.

So, TL:DR; response to your question, no one is accepting of Lopt blood, except the crazy Loputous worshippers who want to bring back his power. Diadora just had the luck to be born in a community that was slightly less assholish about it.

Edit: More info about Galle, Maira, and Lopt witch hunts in the designer notes in this post, under the heading "Secret of Blagi Tower."

Edited March 11, 2013 by Astelaine

[luigi bros]

As I understand it, Lopt blood is hated/feared across Jugdral, because people don't want to return to the horrible evil empire days of Emperor Galle. They fear that someone with major Lopt blood would bring back the old tyrannies and child sacrificing with the help of the Lopt Cult (as did happen with Julius later.) Thusly, in every kingdom in Jugdral, there is an ongoing "witch hunt" for remaining bearers of Lopt blood. Diadora escaped persecution because she was brought up in a hidden village, with her descent presumably kept secret from everyone in Verdane, except the other hidden-villagers. The village is where the descendants of Saint Maira and his attendants had lived for centuries after Maira had defected from his predecessor Galle's cause. Because of that, the people in the village understood that Lopt blood alone does not make someone evil, but at the same time, they kept the remaining descendants (Diadora) tightly under control, so the blood would not be spread. Even people associated with the legacy of Maira don't want Lopt blood getting around, because the Lopt Cult is out there to make sure the blood is used for the dark lord to be revived.

Alvis grew up in a completely different enviroment - among the Grandbell nobility. Unlike Diadora, there was not anyone around who would be sympathetic to his situation. He lived constantly with the terror of being found out, knowing he could be denounced or killed. When the Lopt Cult found out about his lineage and approached him, he had to cooperate, out of fear the cultists would reveal his secret. Hence, he got swept up in the events of FE4 and ended up married to Diadora so Loputous could be revived.

So, TL:DR; response to your question, no one is accepting of Lopt blood, except the crazy Loputous worshippers who want to bring back his power. Diadora just had the luck to be born in a community that was slightly less assholish about it.

I didn't know about Deirdre's upbringing environment.

What you say makes complete sense.

What I don't get then is, how for so many generations Maira's descendants have managed to have children. You would think at one point someone would have had the self control to not have a child.

[Astelaine]

I didn't know about Deirdre's upbringing environment.

What you say makes complete sense.

What I don't get then is, how for so many generations Maira's descendants have managed to have children. You would think at one point someone would have had the self control to not have a child.

I imagine that they did try hard not to have children. According to the timeline, Maira's rebellion began in 535 and he was presumably exiled not long afterwards. FE4's first generation doesn't begin until 757. If left to reproduce as one will, a person could have a ton of descendants within 200+ years. Yet, at the time of the game, Maira's last remaining descendant is Diadora. That leads me to suspect they were at least trying to keep it in check.

You're right, though, that in each generation, at least one of Maira's descendants reproduced. Not sure why. Lots of people feel a desire to have children and be parents, so like Diadora, maybe they couldn't help falling in love and starting a family. Maybe some were accidents or the product of youthful teenage dalliances in the village. Some might have been (eesh!) raped by Verdane soldiers or bandits while away from town. Some might have resented being in village custody and been a little rebellious, especially many generations after Galle and Maira - "who are you to tell me what to do with my body, just because of some crappy emperor 200 years ago?," etc. (I wonder if that is what happened with Diadora's mother, Cigyn?) It's also possible that the villagers were less strict in the past, and Maira's descendants were allowed to have children provided they remained hidden and did not leave the Spirit Forest. Maybe they only became restrictive about it recently, because of Cigyn and her violation of village law.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Astelaine

[luigi bros]

I imagine that they did try hard not to have children. According to the timeline, Maira's rebellion began in 535 and he was presumably exiled not long afterwards. FE4's first generation doesn't begin until 757. If left to reproduce as one will, a person could have a ton of descendants within 200+ years. Yet, at the time of the game, Maira's last remaining descendant is Diadora. That leads me to suspect they were at least trying to keep it in check.

You're right, though, that in each generation, at least one of Maira's descendants reproduced. Not sure why. Lots of people feel a desire to have children and be parents, so like Diadora, maybe they couldn't help falling in love and starting a family. Maybe some were accidents or the product of youthful teenage dalliances in the village. Some might have been (eesh!) raped by Verdane soldiers or bandits while away from town. Some might have resented being in village custody and been a little rebellious, especially many generations after Galle and Maira - "who are you to tell me what to do with my body, just because of some crappy emperor 200 years ago?," etc. (I wonder if that is what happened with Diadora's mother, Cigyn?) It's also possible that the villagers were less strict in the past, and Maira's descendants were allowed to have children provided they remained hidden and did not leave the Spirit Forest. Maybe they only became restrictive about it recently, because of Cigyn and her violation of village law.

That makes sense. I do have to wonder about Cigyn though. I can understand once is rebelling. But twice, meaning there is a chance of a boy and a girl, despite incest, could and did lead to Loputosu (how do you spell that?)'s return.

Cigyn must have been extremely careless to let this happen, and it clearly wasn't just some passerbyer, given the noble standing of her "mates".

[Trivialgent]

I just think it's cruel to kill off a bloodline just because incest would result in an evil demon destroying the world. Couldn't Naga just kill Loptous?

[neb10kta]

I forget where it's said, and I don't have time to find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure at some point it's said that there was only allowed to be one child from each descendant. No one knew that Alvis had Lopt blood in him (I personally don't think think he knew it himself), as he was a bastard child. The Lopt Clan discovered that there were two descendants and orchestrated events to bring them together. Alvis only went along with it because he got the throne. In the 2nd generation, when he finally realizes what's going on, he defects and releases the children he's supposed to kill. IMO, Alvis thought the deal was overthrow the government to get the throne and a wife.

TL;DR Alvis got screwed over just as much as everyone else.

[viyut]

I forget where it's said, and I don't have time to find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure at some point it's said that there was only allowed to be one child from each descendant. No one knew that Alvis had Lopt blood in him (I personally don't think think he knew it himself), as he was a bastard child. The Lopt Clan discovered that there were two descendants and orchestrated events to bring them together. Alvis only went along with it because he got the throne. In the 2nd generation, when he finally realizes what's going on, he defects and releases the children he's supposed to kill. IMO, Alvis thought the deal was overthrow the government to get the throne and a wife.

TL;DR Alvis got screwed over just as much as everyone else.

Alvis was not a bastard child, that was Azel .

Leaving Diadora behind with Shanan was the stupidest mistake Sigurd could've ever made, look:

Shanan:

Diadora left the castle and never came back. She said she was going to see you!

I'm sorry! I promised you I'd watch out for her...

Seriously, it's almost a plot hole.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Generic character

[Djeets]

why did sigurd leave diadora behind on chapter 3 anyway?

i mean, he lets his own wife defenseless out there, (heck, chapter 2 is more dangerous than chapter 3)

at least his seliph didn't follow his stupid example that makes up the whole 2nd generation stuff

[Acacia Sgt]

why did sigurd leave diadora behind on chapter 3 anyway?

i mean, he lets his own wife defenseless out there, (heck, chapter 2 is more dangerous than chapter 3)

at least his seliph didn't follow his stupid example that makes up the whole 2nd generation stuff

He told her to stay behind as someone had to take care of Seliph. As in, either of the parents, not just anybody otherwise Shanan would've been enough.

[Otherarrow]

I forget where it's said, and I don't have time to find it at the moment, but I'm pretty sure at some point it's said that there was only allowed to be one child from each descendant. No one knew that Alvis had Lopt blood in him (I personally don't think think he knew it himself), as he was a bastard child. The Lopt Clan discovered that there were two descendants and orchestrated events to bring them together. Alvis only went along with it because he got the throne. In the 2nd generation, when he finally realizes what's going on, he defects and releases the children he's supposed to kill. IMO, Alvis thought the deal was overthrow the government to get the throne and a wife.

TL;DR Alvis got screwed over just as much as everyone else.

Arvis knew he had Lopt blood. It was how Manfroy was able to blackmail him into helping them. Arvis even knew that he was a descendent of Maira, as he boasts of his ancestry from him as well as Fala to Manfroy when he states he has no intention of just blindly following Manfroy's plan to revive the Lopto Empire.

But yes, he was screwed over.

In the second gen, the implication I got was that he knew all about the horrible things Manfroy and Julius were doing and was working behind the scenes to undermine them how little he could the whole time.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Otherarrow