Chiki Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 One Rescue use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 One Rescue use? Yep! Two could get you Chapter 18 with neither skill as well! I've done it multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) One rescue and a dance gets you 13 in 1 turn with foot units. Edited May 16, 2013 by Serious Bananas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Bringing those chapters down then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I would just like to say I messed up on something; Chapter 20 requires quite a bit of work to one-turn and it can't really be done in drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Hence why it's 2/5. Any ideas on the Paralogue complexities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 What do you mean in direct contradiction? I don't think you understand the idea of varying contexts. If Cordelia in FE13 is worse than Sumia but still very similar, Cordelia gets credit for being good in a context in which Sumia isn't allowed. How is that in contradiction with anything? Well, apparently this doesn't apply to Lon'qu and Panne, because (as you said), we're not willing to consider a context where Panne doesn't get the Second Seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Well, apparently this doesn't apply to Lon'qu and Panne, because (as you said), we're not willing to consider a context where Panne doesn't get the Second Seal. I think you're ignoring my future posts on purpose. I conceded and updated the tier list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I'm not sure about these at all so feel free to fix them. Prologue: 3/5 Chapter 1: 3/5 Chapter 2: 4/5 Chapter 3: 3/5 Chapter 4: 1/5 Chapter 5: 3/5 Chapter 6: 4/5 Chapter 7: 3/5 Chapter 8: 3/5 Chapter 9: 4/5 Chapter 10: 3/5 Chapter 11: 3/5 Chapter 12: 4/5 Chapter 13: 1/5 Chapter 14: 2/5 Chapter 15: 3/5 Chapter 16: 2/5 Chapter 17: 4/5 Chapter 18: 1/5 Chapter 19: 1/5 Chapter 20: 2/5 Chapter 21: 4/5 Chapter 22: 2/5 Chapter 23: 3/5 Chapter 24: 3/5 Chapter 25: 3/5 Endgame: 1/5 I haven't really done all of the Paralogues so someone else might be able to give me a good idea about those. Chapter 25 is really not that hard to 1-turn. I'm pretty sure that all you really need is a good Anna (aka, an Anna that's level 15 for Acrobatics) or a strong Falcoknight with Rescue. Base level Basilio can easily OHKO Aversa. It should definitely be a 1/5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Fixed 25. Current tier list as it is before moving onto children: Deity Tier Female Avatar G Turnshaver Tier Sumia G Cordelia G Male Avatar Female Avatar WG Olivia FR Frederick Anna FR Libra FR Top Tier Olivia Sully Panne SS Stahl Sumia Cordelia Lon'qu SS High Tier Miriel FR Ricken FR Lissa FR Maribelle FR Anna Chrom Nowi Mid Tier Gaius Cherche Tiki Miriel Lon'qu Ricken Lissa Maribelle Tharja Henry Low Tier Say'ri Libra Panne Vaike Gregor Kellam Bottom Tier Basilio Flavia Virion Donnel Edited May 17, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Tharja and Henry > Lon'qu? idk sounds like a good idea because Henry can do a really good job of banging pairing up with Sumia. Cherche > Tiki? Seems about right because deliverer is great to have... although Tiki can also get deliverer so it comes down to how much Cherche can save pre-Tiki. Sully > Olivia (without rescue)? She can save a lot early on and is one of the best units to have in a draft. Edited May 16, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 FR Ricken and FR Miriel need to go down at least a whole tier; the only contexts in which they can exist are LTCs with unrestricted deployment, but in those situations, they are relegated to chipping earlygame enemies at most, and for this reason, they'll never get to promote. While I've never actually done a draft before, vanilla Ricken and Miriel should probably go up, since in those contexts, they will be promoting to Sage (if they're drafted, they are invariably going to gain EXP), which should give them good Rescue range. I could also see vanilla Lissa and Maribelle going down below them since Rescue sees very little use in the earlygame (and by the midgame, vanilla Ricken and Miriel should have nontrivial combat ability in addition to Rescue use). I agree with putting Cherche above Tiki, who is overkill for HM and doesn't have enough Mov to be useful in the assassination missions that follow her chapter (19, 20, 21, 22, 25, Final). By the way, the most prevalent Rescue ruling in drafts is one Rescue use per turn, and not per map. You may want to edit your ruleset to reflect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'll fix the Rescue rule. And Cherche above Tiki, and normal Ricken and Miriel. I don't know about moving FR Ricken and FR Miriel down. My argument was that a smart drafter with Rescue once per turn / full Rescue would really want to be able to use either of them, since they have the best pair up bonuses. In the context in which Ricken and/or Miriel are allowed, they seem to be able to cut a lot of turns. But I don't know enough to comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Oh right, forgot about the Pair Up bonuses. FR Ricken and Miriel are definitely good for C8 and C9 both as Pair Ups and desert ferries, but I don't think Rescue has much use in turn-shaving before those chapters. Later on in the game, they're overshadowed as Pair Ups by Henry and Tharja, both of whom give +3 Mag as Dark Knight while also having 8 Mov (on the flipside, I don't recall using Henry more than twice in my ongoing run, so I don't know if Henry and Tharja should go up that much). For this reason, I feel like FR Ricken and Miriel could still go down a bit, though not by as much as I previously argued; below FR Maribelle may work. The recent draft logs I've seen tend to limit the players to a Rescue per turn, so FR characters aren't likely to be relevant in anything other than unrestricted-deployment LTCs. Edited May 17, 2013 by Redwall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Chapter 12 is 2 turnable with two pretty strong units, and easily 3 turnable with just like one strong unit, it should be 3 at the most in my opinion also unrelated but chapter 20 is one turnable with one rescue use but it requires a few special circumstances but since it was mentioned i'd just thought i'd point it out. Chapter 21 is also probably a 3 turn chapter edit: chapter 20 doesn't need galeforce either for one turn Edited May 17, 2013 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I fixed some positions and ratings. Here are the children we need to tier (feel free to add your own; this list isn't complete): Lucina (Avatar) G Lucina (Avatar) Lucina Cynthia Inigo Brady Owain Kjelle Severa Nowi Noire Laurent Yarne Gerome Male Morgan Female Morgan Female Morgan G I'm wondering what to do with Paralogues. I don't think LTC playthroughs need them; what do drafts do about those? Are they forced or not? If they aren't forced then they cost turns, so the children would generally be ranked lowly.. this would also mean that I'd have to drop Anna too. Edited May 17, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 They're optional and free too 10 turns... I've always liked paralogues in drafts but absolute LTC wouldn't work very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 What do drafts do with Paralogues? Are they forced or optional? If optional they cost turns and all Paralogue related content is going down (Donnel might be getting his own bottom tier lol, and Anna will go down a bit). The children won't fare well either, apart from a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 What do drafts do with Paralogues? Are they forced or optional? If optional they cost turns and all Paralogue related content is going down (Donnel might be getting his own bottom tier lol, and Anna will go down a bit). The children won't fare well either, apart from a few. My last post answered your question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Your post is incomprehensible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Okay then I'll make it more clear. "All paralogues are optional and free up to 10 turns" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 If that's the case, then we would have to draft the LTC children and draft children separately if it matters. Draft children are pretty useful, whereas LTC children are pretty useless. Maybe apart from Morgan. Tier list update coming tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If that's the case, then we would have to draft the LTC children and draft children separately if it matters. Draft children are pretty useful, whereas LTC children are pretty useless. Maybe apart from Morgan. Tier list update coming tomorrow. I wonder about this. If we assume you do all available paralogues for the LTC run then the kids would be ranked okay but if not then it would be adding turns where they don't need to be added... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I doubt any LTC run would do the Paralogues. That would be plain dumb, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 In FE tiering history, playing as many maps as possible has generally been preferable over the lowest full-game turn count. Paralogues would be played in LTC if the LTCer feels like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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