Marth Aka the FE chars going in SSB

[The Void]

Why is Chrom supported again?

He's not even the most important playable character in Awakening. And he fights like Marth.

[Jedi]

Why is Chrom supported again?

He's not even the most important playable character in Awakening. And he fights like Marth.

Swinging the blade instead of stabbing and having fast dashes and the spinning mid-air attack suddenly = Marth. What. I realize Marth swings his sword in smash, but the inspiration is more from Jugdral swordmasters if anything.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Folgore Red II

[secondworld]

Swinging the blade instead of stabbing and having fast dashes and the spinning mid-air attack suddenly = Marth. What

falchion totally equals marth right guys

This is unrelated, but I would like Chrom to have some lance-based attacks.

[The Void]

Lucina fights like Marth.

Chrom taught Lucina to fight.

There you go.

[Jedi]

Lucina fights like Marth.

Chrom taught Lucina to fight.

There you go.

Lucina fights like Marth how exactly? The stances are completely different and she shares more with Chrom then Marth as you just said Chrom taught her how to fight.

I do not recall Marth having a spinning midair slash. You have defeated your own argument.

[shadykid]

Lucina fights like Marth how exactly? The stances are completely different and she shares more with Chrom then Marth as you just said Chrom taught her how to fight.

I do not recall Marth having a spinning midair slash. You have defeated your own argument.

their Falchions have the same might, therefore same style

checkmate

(yeah I don't get it either)

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Nope

Marth has provoke and can't be attacked at Melee range

Meanwhile everyone and their mom love to attack Lucina and Chrom at Melee range

just ask those Counter Warriors

But seriously, did Marth ever have his anti Melee ability in SSB?

[shadykid]

Nope

Marth has provoke and can't be attacked at Melee range

Meanwhile everyone and their mom love to attack Lucina and Chrom at Melee range

just ask those Counter Warriors

But seriously, did Marth ever have his anti Melee ability in SSB?

he has Counter

Marth/Chrom is 100-0 in Marth's favor confirmed

[Jedi]

I always figured the "Counter" move in smash brothers was to simulate a dodge/counter attack in FE

[amadeuscho]

Within the game, Lucina also has her fair share of differences with Chrom. Chrom only uses a two handed stance in art and cutscene, while Lucina fights with two hands in her default class.

I prefer to keep the counter as a down special since it's come from FE counter attack mechanic.. They should just differentiate the move more between individuals. Like Marth's is faster and last a little more, while Ike's 1.5x the damage but it's slower and is a tiny bit shorter. Or something like that.

[The Void]

You're kidding yourself if you expected Chrom as a playable character (if he's even playable) without either replacing somebody or being one Lord's answer to Luigi.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Within the game, Lucina also has her fair share of differences with Chrom. Chrom only uses a two handed stance in art and cutscene, while Lucina fights with two hands in her default class.

I prefer to keep the counter as a down special since it's come from FE counter attack mechanic.. They should just differentiate the move more between individuals. Like Marth's is faster and last a little more, while Ike's 1.5x the damage but it's slower and is a tiny bit shorter. Or something like that.

Chrom's return the damage done to him

derp

Edited July 30, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[shadykid]

Chrom's return the damage done to him

derp

same damage, double knockback

[HK Motendra]

I think Smash is about playing as iconic characters to a series, especially when it comes to franchises. The characters themselves are all strong enough to be considered as characters regardless.

So then Roy isn't Iconic to FE? FE6 was the first to have a fully operational support system, (and before anyone mentions FE4, it had a love and jealousy system, not support) the affinity system and the rescue option, which have been used ever since until the DS remakes. It also set the stage for the standards of FE at the time (which is the reason why Shadow Dragon receives so much backlash and brought the decline for not having modern era features) For Smash, Roy is the icon for the GBA era, even though he was brought in before his game's release and by which started your modern era of FE

The term modern era I use to describe FE's return to modern gaming, so I don't know how it inaccuratre, because I made it up. 3D gaming is the birth of the modern era from my perspective, because it's also a part of the rise of Sony, the Disc format, FMVs, etc. FE skips the N64 genereation and so the games that come out after are FE first games of Modern Era. I don't divide them up by platform the platforms come from the same gaming generation (GC and GBA, and DS and Wii). PoR and RD connect together the GC and Wii generations. My eras are more FE focused than Smash, because although Smash is the catalyst for FE's international debut, the characters in Smash are not the protagonists of the games they got localized. Neither Marth nor Roy were in FE7, FE8, FE9 etc as playable characters (although Roy makes a cameo at the end of FE7). If the GBA being the era in which FE is released internationally is important, you can make an argument about the importance of the first GBA (and international lords) lords, Eliwood, Hector, and Lyn. The era also happens to coincide with the appearances of FE characters from Smash. Classic Era: Everything Prior to Melee. Modern Era: From Melee to Brawl. Revival Era: After FE12's release (last from previous gaming generation, and prior to Smash 4.

And your point is...? Marth and Roy not appearing in FE7, 8, and 9 has nothing to do with Smash because Marth made it to Brawl without representing anything in the west other than the series as a whole. By that logic, Sheik should have been cut for no longer being relevant to Legend of Zelda and appearing in only one title: Ocarina of Time. She doesn't represent anything other than being an alter ego. So what if Ike appears in two generations? That's only because FE9 appeared late in the GC console's lifespan. And like I said before, Sword of Seals set the standard for modern FE from its features. If it wasn't around, those features wouldn't have appeared in the GC/Wii era and PoR and RD wouldn't be the same. The best rep for a modern age is the one who started it, which FE9 didn't do. By the way, you forgot about Shadow Dragon. It showed how the classic era was for people who knew little about it, while adding features of its own. Yo're just going to discard that too as not important to the series?

Ike's uniqueness is what makes him stand out over other choices from his generation or era (including Roy) and made him a better choice for Brawl. It also happens to make him a better smash character. His newcomer status was not the only thing he had over Roy, considering all the differences I mentioned. We don't know why IS recommended over other characters, but we should assume it's just because he was from a new game. He still was recommended over choices like Ephraim, Lyn, and Hector. Ike still has unique characteristics that make him a great character for Smash in the ways that he contrasts both Roy and Marth, in the same way that Roy's fire sword abilities made him stand out over Leif. It's very possible the Ike could be cut from the game, but he does stand out more than Roy did in both their appearances in Smash.

The modern era ends with the decline of FE as seen with the release of FE12, which takes away the one defining features of the modern era (internationally released games). The revival era starts because of the raising of FE's prominence as a Nintendo franchise. The game is well promoted, has a demo released on the 3DS and repositions the series future as admitted by the developers. A series goes from almost being cancelled to having a new crossover (barring an Atlus buyout disrupting things).

The only unique thing Ike has is his background of not being noble born. Nothing else. Ephraim wasn't your typical lord because he actually likes the adrenaline of war, unlike everyone else who fought to keep the peace and happening to be the only one to wield a lance. You never said anything about Ike's character that distinguishes him over Roy. They both start off following their father's footsteps until something happens to them and take on their father's position until they meet a princess who informs them about the continent's situation and her having to take back their kingdom, followed by them agreeing to aid in the continental conflict. Their villain want to change the world as they see fit and/or destroy it via power beyond their control. Both of them have the same plot concepts, but differ by social class. Nothing in that makes Ike a better candidate than Roy was other than the fact that he's new and appears twice in FE.

Back to Smash, like I said, Melee was filled with clones and if time permitted, he could have easily been his own person, just as how Ike is in Brawl. Ike had to be done first because he was new and they needed a new lord. Starfox had a clone in the previous Smash, but that was fixed, along with a new character, Wolf, whose moveset was different from the rest of Starfox but managed to still be similar to the cast in terms of specials and FS (Final Smash). For FE, this same thing could have possibly happened if maybe there weren't any guest characters. Sonic's inclusion was very late, which took up the remaining time for Roy and Mewtwo. Back to Ike, if it wasn't for that suggestion, Ike wouldn't be in Smash at all. For the people defending Ike over Roy, you talk as if Ike makes a better smasher when it's not the case at all. When rushed by a deadline, followed by the guests,Ike isn't a better character or a rep than Roy. He just didn't make it in time. That's it.

[secondworld]

FE6 was the first to have a fully operational support system, (and before anyone mentions FE4, it had a love and jealousy system, not support) the affinity system and the rescue option, which have been used ever since until the DS remakes.

Yeah, about that...

EDIT:

Oops, I said FE4 at the beginning when I meant FE5.

Edited July 30, 2013 by David the SecondWorld

[HK Motendra]

Yeah, about that...

EDIT:

Oops, I said FE4 at the beginning when I meant FE5.

Huh, I guess I wouldn't know that because I never tried FE4 or 5. Oh well. I guess I'm just another person who sees support as conversation along with bonuses *shrugs*

That gave me a good laugh though

Edited July 30, 2013 by Hero-King

[shadykid]

quick, Roy vs Ike poll!

[secondworld]

Huh, I guess I wouldn't know that because I never tried FE4 or 5. Oh well.

Well, FE6 did expand greatly on the support system by adding convos and affinities, and being able rearrange units' starting positions was a great addition.(especially after FE5)

[shadykid]

Well, FE6 did expand greatly on the support system by adding convos and affinities, and being able rearrange units' starting positions was a great addition.(especially after FE5)

how was this not a thing before then in the first place (granted FE4 had deploying from castles, but still)

[HK Motendra]

quick, Roy vs Ike poll!

Oh god, there's no way I'm going into such a feud. I just don't like the idea of people suppressing Roy for Ike just because he was excluded from brawl

Well, FE6 did expand greatly on the support system by adding convos and affinities, and being able rearrange units' starting positions was a great addition.(especially after FE5)

Which was where I was going at in my defense. I may not be an early FE person, but I've been on Smash from the jump

[secondworld]

how was this not a thing before then in the first place (granted FE4 had deploying from castles, but still)

Perhaps because Fire Emblem, and SRPGs in general, was a new concept at the time and they didn't think of it.

Then then after FE5 IS was like, "Okay we should fix this sh*t."

[shadykid]

Perhaps because Fire Emblem, and SRPGs in general, was a new concept at the time and they didn't think of it.

Then then after FE5 IS was like, "Okay we should fix this sh*t."

they had 5 games to do it -_-

[secondworld]

they had 5 games to do it -_-

Well, it really wasn't all that troublesome in previous games, but it was definitely a problem in FE5.

Which was where I was going at in my defense. I may not be an early FE person, but I've been on Smash from the jump

I feel that FE6 doesn't get enough credit for what i did, removing most of the bullsh*t from previous games and being more user-friendly overall, while still being challenging.(hard mode)

Granted, Shadow Dragon did this as well, and arguably better, but that's neither here nor there.

[amadeuscho]

So then Roy isn't Iconic to FE? FE6 was the first to have a fully operational support system, (and before anyone mentions FE4, it had a love and jealousy system, not support) the affinity system and the rescue option, which have been used ever since until the DS remakes. It also set the stage for the standards of FE at the time (which is the reason why Shadow Dragon receives so much backlash and brought the decline for not having modern era features) For Smash, Roy is the icon for the GBA era, even though he was brought in before his game's release and by which started your modern era of FE

And your point is...? Marth and Roy not appearing in FE7, 8, and 9 has nothing to do with Smash because Marth made it to Brawl without representing anything in the west other than the series as a whole. By that logic, Sheik should have been cut for no longer being relevant to Legend of Zelda and appearing in only one title: Ocarina of Time. She doesn't represent anything other than being an alter ego. So what if Ike appears in two generations? That's only because FE9 appeared late in the GC console's lifespan. And like I said before, Sword of Seals set the standard for modern FE from its features. If it wasn't around, those features wouldn't have appeared in the GC/Wii era and PoR and RD wouldn't be the same. The best rep for a modern age is the one who started it, which FE9 didn't do. By the way, you forgot about Shadow Dragon. It showed how the classic era was for people who knew little about it, while adding features of its own. Yo're just going to discard that too as not important to the series?

The only unique thing Ike has is his background of not being noble born. Nothing else. Ephraim wasn't your typical lord because he actually likes the adrenaline of war, unlike everyone else who fought to keep the peace and happening to be the only one to wield a lance. You never said anything about Ike's character that distinguishes him over Roy. They both start off following their father's footsteps until something happens to them and take on their father's position until they meet a princess who informs them about the continent's situation and her having to take back their kingdom, followed by them agreeing to aid in the continental conflict. Their villain want to change the world as they see fit and/or destroy it via power beyond their control. Both of them have the same plot concepts, but differ by social class. Nothing in that makes Ike a better candidate than Roy was other than the fact that he's new and appears twice in FE.

Back to Smash, like I said, Melee was filled with clones and if time permitted, he could have easily been his own person, just as how Ike is in Brawl. Ike had to be done first because he was new and they needed a new lord. Starfox had a clone in the previous Smash, but that was fixed, along with a new character, Wolf, whose moveset was different from the rest of Starfox but managed to still be similar to the cast in terms of specials and FS (Final Smash). For FE, this same thing could have possibly happened if maybe there weren't any guest characters. Sonic's inclusion was very late, which took up the remaining time for Roy and Mewtwo. Back to Ike, if it wasn't for that suggestion, Ike wouldn't be in Smash at all. For the people defending Ike over Roy, you talk as if Ike makes a better smasher when it's not the case at all. When rushed by a deadline, followed by the guests,Ike isn't a better character or a rep than Roy. He just didn't make it in time. That's it.

I've never said Roy wasn't iconic.I just don't think Roy's iconicism outranks Ike's. Ike clearly represents more of what I call the modern era. If you want to separate them by platforms, that's fine to. I think Roy is probably the icon of the GBA era but it doesn't make sense to compare the FE's by platform. Both Marth's and Ike's saga clearly cross platforms. And as I've said, the first three GBA lords also do have a stake, although they would ultimately lose out.And I think FE4 should get credit for the relationship system; although it's system is different, it predates FE6's. I'm talking about for FE, whose iconic for FE. If it's whose iconic in FE in relation to Smash, then there are only three choices possible and not much argument.

My point is if the defining feature of the modern era is the series being internationally released, then it make sense for the iconic character to be internationally released. International releasing the games had a greater effect on the series than anything any game in the series had previously added. I'm not saying Roy should have been cut or anything to with Sheik (I didn't really get that). Marth's iconic nature does not come from being in Smash; it comes from his role in the series and his importance to his history. First doesn't mean the most iconic. Ness appeared after Ninten for Mother, but Ness is the icon for the Mother series.

I included shadow dragon in my initial post. That post was a response to it. I mention Shadow Dragon as part of the decline aspect of the Modern Era. And I still mentioned FE12 in that post. and mention the fact it was not internationally released.

Ike has a very unique fighting style. From the way he holds his sword to how he strikes, it's different than other lords. Ike's a mercernary, and he's the most dramatic to break from the lords we have ever had in the series. I think Ephraim's decisions were more tactical in nature The main thing he shares in common is his blue hair and the fact that he wields a sword. Ike established the lord mercernary archetype, while Roy clearly comes from the tradition of the lord archetype set by Marth. And not being from royalty was very important to the series, as it reflects modern sensibilties in video game story telling. The hallmark of the modern era was hero stepping away from the conventional tropes that had occupied gaming. In terms of fighting style and background, I would argue that both make him a good rep for Smash. And Roy didn't make it in. I think clearly someone in development or at IS agreed with me, considering their status in Brawl. This isn't a shot at a Roy. But the fact is he was in Brawl while Roy wasn't. I don't think Ike is better Smasher, but Ike overall is a more unique character.

According to Sakurai, the complete roster for Brawl was finalized in 2006, aside from Sonic*. So I think it might be a false assumpton to assume Roy could have made it in with more time. You can choose not to believe his timeline, but then there would no point in reading anything else he says then. The amount of data of Roy's within the game would reflect the early dismissal of the character. And any character can be made more unique by the development. I wasn't referring to Roy in Smash however. I was referring to him in the context of his own game. Same with Ike.

*source: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/gdc-2008-meeting-masahiro-sakurai.146816/ "The COMPLETE Roster was Finalized in 2006"

To restate it very clearly, what I'm saying is about the fact that Ike is the most unique character from all the FE lords, and represents the modern sensibilities in gaming. I don't think Roy or Ike is a better smasher.

I've got nothing against Roy. I would have loved to have played his game on my GBA, and think it's pretty stupid that Nintendo never released it internationally. Just like I got nothing against Seliph, Celica, Sigurd, Alm, Lyn, Eliwood, Micaiah, and Hector, whom I haven't even really talked about. Not mentioning a game or character isn't me disregarding them, I'm just not doing a history of the series, just mentioning its eras and its most iconic character.

But I don't think anyone should discount the importance of Awakening to FE series and those main lords played a pretty big role in that. I think that should be acknowledged. The game literally saved the series. The Smash series should reflect iconicism; it should not give a series credence. I think the FE series (and any series for that matter) should be strong enough to have its own proof of it worth without looking to Smash for validation.

Note: Wow, this post was longer than I expected. In any case, I don't want to turn this into a Roy vs Ike thing. Just really want to emphasize that.

Edited July 30, 2013 by jaytalks

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Well, it really wasn't all that troublesome in previous games, but it was definitely a problem in FE5.

I still raeg everytime Marth deployed far from my warper