Nintendo's stance on fan-made content?

[Knight]

In a recent interview, Nintendo said that they aren't going to block user-made content on YouTube and such, because they want to be nice to their fans. However, videos of a long length, such as let's plays, might have to advertise for Nintendo or give them some of the profits, not exactly sure. Personally, this is a lot better than Microsoft's statement awhile ago, where they said that they didn't want let's plays, machinima, or any of the sort at all, except for Rooster Teeth, who reaps them in a bunch of money anyway. I can see the financial view of this, if someone misses a game in a series, they might want to watch a let's play rather than actually play the game, but I don't think they understand how this hurts many members of the community, as some people live off of YouTube. But, much like Microsoft's statement, I doubt this will be very much enforced, and fan outcry will probably make the whole thing slide.

[Anacybele]

...I had no idea Microsoft were such idiots.

Anyway, I don't do let's plays, but I wouldn't mind doing one or two someday. I wouldn't really mind paying a little money to Nintendo, I do it already by buying their games and stuff. I also say it could be much worse anyway.

[LunaSaint]

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/nintendo-takes-legal-action-against-its-own-community-claims-rights-over-yo'>Article is here.

This is pretty big, and is going to wreck the work speedrunners and the like.

It seems like an incredibly foolish attitude to me. Games aren't like movies. Watching someone else play something only encourages me to want to try it myself. Just look at the effect of youtubers like Totalbiscuit or NorthernLion. Admittedly, most of their games are indie games - and Indie Games get all of their advertisement from word of mouth, anyway.

But really, some of these popular streamers and youtubers have a huge marketing effect for games companies. This is especially so in the case of new IP, where people won't be purchasing a game on name alone. Unless they have strong statistical evidence to the contrary, I really think this is going to harm them in the long run.

This doesn't directly affect me too much since the only Nintendo game I've bought in the last couple of years is FE:A, anyway. But to the speedrunners I watch, ad revenue is one of the main reasons they can afford to spend so much time practising. It's not like they even get much from it, either. If e-sports figures are anything to go by, this kind of revenue for Nintendo will be a neglegible amount.

[deleted35362]

This is buffalo bullshit burrito wrapped in a paper bag covered in Zelda snot and frosted in ferret feces. Such despicable, greedy dotards. Let's Plays do not, in now way, infringe on the profits Nintendo would make. They bolster sales, in fact. It gets more people interested in games. Now Nintendo's exploiting Let's Plays(which, in a way IS advertising for their products) by siphoning out money from it? It's one thing to put out cash-cow nostalgia-service games, but this is atrocious. If LP's didn't exist in the first place, they would make less of a profit. This isn't illegal downloading.

The icing on the cake? Nintendo think they're being kinder than the companies who just copyright claim to get the videos taken down. I've never made a single Let's Play video or anything of the sort, and this pisses me off to no end.

I also say it could be much worse anyway.

...And how, pray tell, could this possibly be worse? Enlighten me.

@OP: This is already being enforced. It's been reported that the money that people would get from doing the LPs are all going to Nintendo. Nintendo made a YouTupe partership arrangement to make this happen.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Boney

[Samias]

It could be worse with Nintendo actively taking content down. People who have done LPs of Assassin's Creed have seen their audio cut, Sega has obliterated practically everything to do with Shining Force, and some companies like Microsoft wish they could restrict what gets put onto the net to some handpicked companies but thankfully they so far haven't wanted to put in the effort.

Nintendo is not banning people from posting content. What they are doing is blocking people from monetizing videos using Nintendo's IPs. For some LPers and speedrunners, this is a pain, taking away revenue from their channel and shifting it towards Nintendo. For people who do this a lot, it might take away their good standing as a Youtube partner. However, they were knowingly using extended amounts of copyrighted material to earn revenue without a licensing agreement. For the most part I've seen the argument boiled down to "ohh Nintendo has ruined my life by making it so I can't get paid playing their video games!", but the reality is, most of those players don't own any content licenses that would have legally enabled them to make money off of what they were doing. Youtube's partnership program doesn't look at the actual content of your channel, only the number of views on your video, and they warn you before you sign up that you shouldn't try to profit off of copyrighted material. If making money is so important to these LPers, they could encourage people to visit their website and have their own advertising set-up, since last time I checked no one was barring them from doing so.

What Nintendo is saying is they want that content to be up on the web, but they don't agree with 3rd parties making money off of it. In the future they might use their partnership status to take down videos that are not only using their content, but using their content in a way they don't agree (ie vulgar extremely non-family friendly stuff), but we won't know until it happens.

[shadowofchaos]

Honestly, I agree with Samias above there.

It could be worse.

I honestly don't get any money even though I've been offered a Youtube partnership, and I'm small time in the amount of subscribers, so this doesn't affect me at all.

The fact is it's Nintendo's Intellectual Property and they're not restricting you from posting said content... it's really not that bad.

"Oh no, they're stopping me from making money from recording their content and me talking over it."

I understand that some people live off that, but they could use other games to do so. "So what if they're really getting less benefits from less free advertising?" It's Nintendo's conscious decision, no matter how stupid you think it is. And people are just gonna have to deal with it.

I'd say the bellyaching over this will be done in a few months.

They could be completely muting/killing your video, and putting copyright strikes on your account enough to close it down. THAT would be a jerk move.

Edited May 17, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[deleted35362]

What the hell are you two talking about? I don't see how "I'm taking down these videos"(which tends to fail and diminish over time) is worse than "Ohey, I'm going to exploit you to add to my billions. *rich guy laughter*"

Also shadowofchaos, you just repeated what Samias said, but with more butt-kissing to Nintendo. In case you didn't notice how unnecessary the things you said were.

[shadowofchaos]

but with more butt-kissing to Nintendo.

...Okay?

And?

Am I committing a crime by expressing my agreement with Samias and disagreement with you?

This is a forum, for discussion. Saying "unnecessary" things come with the territory. All you're trying to do, it seems like is talk down on anyone that supports what they're doing against the LP-ers who are making money off it?

Your content is still up, it's not taken down. It's their intellectual property, and they can damn do whatever the hell they want with it. You're trying to paint them being super evil when I see they're being super nice that fans still have the ability to express themselves by posting content associated with what they own.

Your opinion may be that there's no difference there, but to someone small time that doesn't care about the money like myself and just do it for the hell of it, we see that there's a difference with a benefit on OUR side.

I have not done anything to provoke anyone here, and you're trying to paint me as some Nintendo fanboy "butt-kissing". Please, I'd appreciate it if you'd try to start whatever it is you're trying to start elsewhere.

[Knight]

I don't blame companies trying to make money, as long as they aren't ripping people off. People should be a little more grateful that they aren't pulling vids down, and banning channels, because they have that right. I don't think this is the wisest move Nintendo's made, but at least they aren't like other companies. I can understand if some people are angry, but it's technically their own fault for using copyrighted material.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Knight

[deleted35362]

^ Okay yeah, Nintendo can go ahead and have videos taken down and their content blocked, but that helps no one. That's not being much of a dick, that's just being financially idiotic. LPs can basically function as free advertisements for games. LPs do NOT rob companies of money they would have earned by any means.

"I don't want anyone using the games we published(since Nintendo's EAD doesn't even develop many of its games anymore) to make money for themselves. That's fine. Dandy.

However, doing what Nintendo did is basically the worst of both worlds. They're not only taking money from the LPers. The LPers won't want to LP Nintendo's videos, so they won't. that's not fair to the viewers who want to see it. In the end, Nintendo game videos on the internet will diminish. Basically, Nintendo's having videos of their games removed from the internet, but in the most greedy and underhanded way possible.

Please, I'd appreciate it if you'd try to start whatever it is you're trying to start elsewhere.

You're not contributing any discussion.

[shadowofchaos]

They're not only taking money from the LPers.

Money which they are generating from views using property owned by Nintendo. They're lucky they've been able to do it up to this point already. Nintendo has every legal right to do this, I don't think you can question that.

And frankly, if it leads to their downfall, what the hell can you do besides complain and moan about it?

There will be LP'ers that will do so because they like the game they're playing. There of course, people who live off the views from their monetized content... and this is a challenge for them... but I'm sure they'll come up with some way to get by.

You're not contributing any discussion.

My contribution is agreeing and expressing my opinion on it as well.

If I simply posted, "^What the person above me said," then by ALL means please tell me I'm not contributing anything by posting.

I reiterate "I am not bothered by Nintendo's decision and this is why, which is inherently the same reason as Samias."

From your posts so far "Nintendo is stupid, this is why" and then you have an implied "You, shadowofchaos, should just shut up because someone has said that opinion first" aura about it there.

I appreciate such great kindness.

Edited May 17, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Esau of Isaac]

I don't blame companies trying to make money, as long as they aren't ripping people off. People should be a little more grateful that they aren't pulling vids down, and banning channels, because they have that right. I don't think this is the wisest move Nintendo's made, but at least they aren't like other companies. I can understand if some people are angry, but it's technically their own fault for using copyrighted material.

It's still a poor move on their part. Seeking to make a profit is fine, but the fact that they aren't behaving in an atrocious manner doesn't mean they're behaving in a good manner.

I think this whole drama over Let's Plays and such is silly and that it's another failing of modern application of copyrights. Sooner or later the concept will need to be adapted to a world of digital ease, because I doubt society is going to be the one that bends in this case.

[shadowofchaos]

but the fact that they aren't behaving in an atrocious manner doesn't mean they're behaving in a good manner.

I'll definitely concede to that point. Their move on this is pretty... bold.

We'll just have to wait and see.

A couple of my friends in the game room said that it doesn't bother them that much.

At least, it doesn't spark passions and ignite any hands of theirs to burn red and tell them to defeat Nintendo.

[Iridium]

It's unfortunate.

Although you may have recorded something yourself, usually its actual creator or author holds many of the rights needed to commercially exploit this content. This means you cannot monetize third party content that you have recorded without explicit written permission.

-Youtube FAQ

You must meet these minimum requirements in order to monetize your videos:

• Your content is advertiser-friendly.
• You created the content or have permission to use it commercially.
• You are able to provide documentation proving you own commercial rights to all audio and video content.

-Youtube FAQ

You further agree that Content you submit to the Service will not contain third party copyrighted material, or material that is subject to other third party proprietary rights, unless you have permission from the rightful owner of the material or you are otherwise legally entitled to post the material and to grant YouTube all of the license rights granted herein.

-Youtube Terms of Service

...however, unless the LPers can prove that they own the commercial rights to the entirety of the audio and video content for every game they've recorded, they are in violation of Youtube's monetization policy, terms of service, and, more likely than not, the law.

Whether I agree with this or not, the fact of the matter is that the money was very arguably not being made legally (in a dubious grey area at best) and Nintendo does have every right to have their accounts removed and probably could sue if they truly believed they had legal standing (which would take, what, one comment thanking someone for not having to buy the game since they can just watch it?)

This is... pretty much the best-case scenario for 'actions Nintendo could have taken if they were to take one.'

Edited May 17, 2013 by Iridium

[Shin]

^ Okay yeah, Nintendo can go ahead and have videos taken down and their content blocked, but that helps no one. That's not being much of a dick, that's just being financially idiotic. LPs can basically function as free advertisements for games. LPs do NOT rob companies of money they would have earned by any means.

"I don't want anyone using the games we published(since Nintendo's EAD doesn't even develop many of its games anymore) to make money for themselves. That's fine. Dandy.

However, doing what Nintendo did is basically the worst of both worlds. They're not only taking money from the LPers. The LPers won't want to LP Nintendo's videos, so they won't. that's not fair to the viewers who want to see it. In the end, Nintendo game videos on the internet will diminish. Basically, Nintendo's having videos of their games removed from the internet, but in the most greedy and underhanded way possible.

You're not contributing any discussion.

I think you're being a little too dramatic about this, someone needs a cookie. It's not like that this would cause people to stop making videos and the collapse of the Nintendian empire. A company has a right to stop other people using its property for financial gain, asking for a share or advertising is far more reasonable than suing them outright and taking down the videos.

[LunaSaint]

However, they were knowingly using extended amounts of copyrighted material to earn revenue without a licensing agreement

This is true. I'm quite used to companies like Blizzard, Valve, and indie devs - all examples of companies who welcome this content and openly state that everyone has license. It's very naive of me to think other companies will share a similar viewpoint.

Personally, my main concern goes out to speedrunners. The scene is just starting to really make a splash, and there's a really fascinating kind of science to it. At the end of the day, the people that really enjoy will do it anyway I suppose.

Something still bothers me about this, however. Nintendo might have less to gain from this kind of publicity, but it's certainly an asset to the market. I wonder what numbers they have that prompted this.

Edited May 17, 2013 by LunaSaint

[Knight]

Blizzard and Valve aren't declining in sales, and indie devs need what they can get to get their game out there.

Speedrunners should aim to beat the specific time they need to avoid advertisement.

[Crimson Red]

I think it's fair that people can't make money off of it. But for Nintendo to force ads and make money instead sort of turns things around, hurting the videos (because well, I know I don't enjoy advertisements) and profiting only themselves. While their action is probably justified, I don't think it's the best move in terms of press, popularity, etc., and their reputation/standing has slightly diminished in my mind, which is more sad than anything because I want Nintendo and its games to do well so that they can make more of them, not the opposite where they become less popular and do less well. In other words, I kind of fear for Nintendo.

So yeah, I suppose I'd prefer that LP'ers can profit but I don't think it's unreasonable that don't profit, I just think it's not the best move Nintendo could have taken. I mean, it's awesome that they (the LP'ers) can make money off this but they should have expected this somewhere in the back of their minds; it's honestly not fair and just because Nintendo is a big bad company doesn't mean they don't ultimately consist of people who might feel like they're being ripped off by people who "just play games and upload them, sometimes with commentary". We have this idea in America (if nowhere else) of the people's rights where bigger organizations are the enemy but ultimately those bigger organizations have rights too and sometimes in their inability to always enforce them, we get carried away until the threat of that enforcement becomes a reality.

Not letting LP'ers make money but also not adding their own advertisements would also hurt Nintendo's rep but be less profitable in the long-run I think, so really they either had to go all the way with the "make money!" idea or do nothing. I think the better option would have been to do nothing, but clearly they don't agree, and perhaps people speaking up or them doing poorly in game sales (if people react and stop buying games or simply become less aware of them, it's very possible for this to happen) will hurt their business and force them to reconsider. Who knows.

/incomprehensible rant

[shadowofchaos]

But for Nintendo to force ads and make money instead sort of turns things around, hurting the videos (because well, I know I don't enjoy advertisements) and profiting only themselves.

People who have monetized video have ads on it anyway when people watch it.

Edited May 17, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Happy_Dingo]

This guy pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. (Listen the whole way through so you don't get the wrong idea, cuz someone did that to a video I posted in another forum before and got the complete wrong idea). Oh yeah, STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING! just in case there's other people around when you watch it.

[sunshineYON]

This is troublesome. My channel is not really well known, and if somehow ads are put onto them, it will be a complete deterrent to the viewers. I do Nintendo games because I grew up with them and it would be hard to transition into other games that I don't play as much. Look at Minecraft, Notch specifically tweeted that despite being tempted, he would not go down the road Nintendo did. This is because he sees value in the Let's Play and similar communities, which pretty much catapulted his game to stardom for free and quite effectively.

[Zera]

Nintendo wants to put ads for its stuff on lengthy "Let's Play"s and such, and they get the money for the ads instead of the video creator. When you watch a Let's Play, you are getting two things: 1. Viewing of Nintendo's copyrighted characters, etc. 2. Personal gameplay, commentary or other content by the video creator. The problem is that instead of the ads paying for the creators effort and original content, it all goes to Nintendo, who did not create anything unique in the video.

It could be worse, but I expect that some video makers will stop creating content because they can no longer be paid for it.

Not only can you now advertise Nintendo's products for them, but you do so while giving them money!

[LunaSaint]

Why do people think this won't matter in the long term? If gaming videos on youtube revert to hobbyist work, it's going to lose a lot of its influence or reach.

Totalbiscuit released a fairly thorough and balanced video on his understanding of the situation. It highlights how uncertain who is in the right in this situation is from both legal and non-legal standpoints, as well as whether or not this is a good business idea in the first place.

While his points on the legal matters aren't necessarily well grounded, his argument on how bad a business decision is really strong, and highlights that this isn't a small problem.

This segment starts at about 15:15 in the video.

I don't think people will forget about this in a few months, at all. They're not threatening the hobbyists that produced the odd video for fun, no. They're threatening the larger content creators that consistently churn out high quality, well edited videos. These people draw in hundreds of thousands of views per video, and produce multiple videos daily. It's thanks to that viewer count that anyone can afford to do that at all.

That same ad revenue won't do nearly as much for Nintendo. It'll pay a few peoples' wages, and that's about it. They might be doing poorly financially but they're harming a long term marketing source for a miniscule financial benefit.

And yes, it is a long term marketing source. Magazines and retailers are losing a lot of their influence, while the youtube market is growing.

Edited May 18, 2013 by LunaSaint

[shadowofchaos]

This guy pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. (Listen the whole way through so you don't get the wrong idea, cuz someone did that to a video I posted in another forum before and got the complete wrong idea). Oh yeah, STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING! just in case there's other people around when you watch it.

I have to say, that's definitely the way I see it.

They have the complete right to do this move. But pissing off so many people isn't worth it.

Again, doesn't really affect me though. So yeah, I'm one of *THOSE* people. xD

"The community has given their answer/opinion that they didn't like your last move. Your move, Nintendo."

[Knife]