Thoughts on Galeforce

[ZemZem]

Arguments about Galeforce seem to happen frequently, and I'm curious to see where everyone stands on it. One can argue that it breaks the game, with an OP Female!Avatar, Sumia, Cordelia, Female!Morgan, Cynthia, etc. beating the midgame and endgame chapters in less than five turns without breaking a sweat, but then another side of the argument claims that there's nothing special about the skill and is uneedingly overrated. Personally, here's how I view the controversial skill:

I used to hype the fuck out of Galeforce. But over time (I did some casual playthroughs) I found it to be not that great, and impractical, even. Favoriting the hell out of Cordelia and Sumia made everyone else a bit of a hassle to train, since the fliers were eating all the EXP to get to the skill faster, and other units such as Nowi and even Chrom didn't get much EXP at all after Sumia or Cordelia promoted around Chapter 11-ish. But getting the skill at level 15 as a promoted Dark Flier? Wow. That's my main issue about Galeforce; how you basically have to favor the fuck out of particular units while everyone else tend to get left in the dust.

It makes sense in drafting to ban Galeforce, since Sumia's a first pick unit and it's up to her with Frederick at her side with a rescue-bot aiding them to beat the game ASAP. So I guess that's justified, in a way. Everywhere else except LTC, probably Lunatic, and Lunatic+? Galeforce isn't the best skill in existence. It's pretty overrated.

Do you get what I'm saying? I don't want to sound confusing. >_<

Edited May 17, 2013 by Zeem

[Hawkeye]

I'm pretty sure Galeforce doesn't have much use in lunatic and lunatic+ (not that I'm very knowledgeable there) but you've summed it up pretty well.

[Renall]

It is a great skill and may be slightly overrated.

It is not impractical and Galeforce-specific build designs (i.e. striker teams that take advantage of extreme offense and mobility + Galeforce) are incredibly useful on the Player Phase. However, an Enemy Phase tank build requires something completely different from both the tank and their support and neither needs or particularly wants Galeforce.

That doesn't make it a bad skill or even an "impractical" skill, but obviously it has places where it doesn't shine. It's never worth the effort in a non-grind run, for example, but few top-tier skills are except the ones that are just handed to you (hi Veteran).

[General Horace]

there's no doubt its an incredible skill, anything that adds more mobility to a pair of units is a good thing. Even if you don't move forward with it, you can heal, or switch to your partner and allow them to get exp. It's pretty much player phase veteran that gives you reign over the whole map that comes later on.

Edited May 17, 2013 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

I think the question is: do we mind if units other than Galeforce users fail to get exp? The playstyle should also be clearly established: if it's LTC, how many turns does the existence of Galeforce save in a run where units get average level-ups, and how many turns, if any at all, will the neglected non-Galeforce users pay back later on if learning Galeforce is rejected as an objective?

[Scarlet]

Well, it is pretty useful (in theory) and does open up a whole bunch of strategies that wouldn't be possible without it...

...but if you don't grind, by the time you actually get the skill, the game is already pretty much over. It's no doubt great in the spotpass chapters and some of the harder DLC, but for the main game, it's just not worth the time or effort. If you go out of your way to get Galeforce as soon as possible, the grinding you will have done to do so will already trivialize the rest of the game on its own.

[Renall]

I think the question is: do we mind if units other than Galeforce users fail to get exp? The playstyle should also be clearly established: if it's LTC, how many turns does the existence of Galeforce save in a run where units get average level-ups, and how many turns, if any at all, will the neglected non-Galeforce users pay back later on if learning Galeforce is rejected as an objective?

That's an LTC context. The problem with Galeforce is people argue about it in many, many different contexts, and to nobody's surprise it has slightly different value in all of them. There's also a current of anti-Galeforce hipsterism rolling in to replace the Galeforce-or-go-home hypesterism that preceded it. Both are wrong, but the anti-Galeforce people are more wrong because Galeforce actually is extremely good.

Unless, of course, it's a context where Galeforce isn't good. Then it isn't good. Because that's just common sense.

[ZemZem]

Impractical wasn't the right word to use at all. I found using a unit with Galeforce pretty much the only unit to use around the time they got it. Made everyone else just sit around and wait for the chapters to pass. Didn't help that a ton of chapters in FE13 are Beat the Boss missions.

Galeforce is great. Overrated, yes. The best skill in the game, no. Not worth the effort, depends.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Zeem

[Renall]

Impractical wasn't the right word to use at all. I found using a unit with Galeforce pretty much the only unit to use around the time they got it. Made everyone else just sit around and wait for the chapters to pass. Didn't help that a ton of chapters in FE13 are Beat the Boss missions.

True, but quite honestly if all that you care about is clearing the game quickly and you can continue to successfully do so, who cares how many of your units see use or get experience? In that context Galeforce + one or two OP units does everything you need done and does it quickly. Unless there's a method to do it more quickly (I'm sure there probably is, I don't focus on LTC, just in general), why not use the best method if that's all you care about? And if it's not all you care about, then don't use the skill or don't Leeroy Jenkins your way across the map with the character(s) that do have it.

[ZemZem]

True, but quite honestly if all that you care about is clearing the game quickly and you can continue to successfully do so, who cares how many of your units see use or get experience? In that context Galeforce + one or two OP units does everything you need done and does it quickly. Unless there's a method to do it more quickly (I'm sure there probably is, I don't focus on LTC, just in general), why not use the best method if that's all you care about? And if it's not all you care about, then don't use the skill or don't Leeroy Jenkins your way across the map with the character(s) that do have it.

Hmm, that's probably the best way to put things.

[Chiki]

[Redwall]

I think the question is: do we mind if units other than Galeforce users fail to get exp? The playstyle should also be clearly established: if it's LTC, how many turns does the existence of Galeforce save in a run where units get average level-ups, and how many turns, if any at all, will the neglected non-Galeforce users pay back later on if learning Galeforce is rejected as an objective?

In Lunatic LTC, Galeforce is worth the turncount investment (even accounting for the loss of EXP on non-Galeforce users). However, I am fairly sure that removing Veteran from the game would force the player to take many, many more turns than would removing Galeforce from the game, and so for this reason, Veteran is "better."

[Junkhead]

The only reason why it's overrated is by how casuals tend to hype it up and handwave at the cost of having to get the Dark Flier to lvl 15 first.

Besides, it's not like you're not 2-3 turning most chapters anyway in LTC or drafts with the help of a Rescue user, Olivia and a flying boss killer.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well, it is pretty useful (in theory) and does open up a whole bunch of strategies that wouldn't be possible without it...

...but if you don't grind, by the time you actually get the skill, the game is already pretty much over. It's no doubt great in the spotpass chapters and some of the harder DLC, but for the main game, it's just not worth the time or effort. If you go out of your way to get Galeforce as soon as possible, the grinding you will have done to do so will already trivialize the rest of the game on its own.

Yep. If you are going for a Galeforce team (which ive done), the amount of grinding involved is rather crazy. For Inigo to have it, Olivia must be leveled, reclassed, leveled, promoted, and then level 15 Dark Flier. That alone is a lot of grinding. O.o

For Cynthia to have it out of the box, Sumia must be level 15 DF.

Same for Severa.

Noire would need to be Female Avatar's child to get Galeforce upon recruitment....(and Tharja would have to be paired with someone who offers pegknight for Noire to get it.)

For Brady to have it, see Oliva's example. Only with Maribelle.

Lucina needs a pegknight option for reclass to get it.

Building a Galeforce team takes forever. The only reason i can see (and do) building that kind of team is for DLC/Postgame/Streetpass stuff. (or possibly super high difficulties) Galeforce isnt that efficient for LTCing the main game if you really think about it. Especially since LTC peeps wouldnt be grinding. I think its perfectly sensible for people to want to forgo Galeforce for a tankier build for their guys.

[PKL]

"By the time you get "galeforce" the game is almost over". This is not true. I trained a balanced team and didnt favor Cordelia at all and she still got the skill by Chapter 18. If I favored Cordeiia, she can get it by C15, which is where it matters. Galeforce by tree is super easy btw. It's not overrated. It's hype is damn well deserved. It is an amazing skill. Be it LTC, Efficiency, casual w/e.

The only reason why it's overrated is by how casuals tend to hype it up and handwave at the cost of having to get the Dark Flier to lvl 15 first.

Besides, it's not like you're not 2-3 turning most chapters anyway in LTC or drafts with the help of a Rescue user, Olivia and a flying boss killer.

With Galeforce, instead of 2-3 turns, youre 1 turning every map after its existence. Deliverer can replicate SOME galeforce strats but definetely not all, not even close.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Scarlet]

"By the time you get "galeforce" the game is almost over". This is not true. I trained a balanced team and didnt favor Cordelia at all and she still got the skill by Chapter 18. If I favored Cordeiia, she can get it by C15, which is where it matters.

Well, "by chapter 18" means you're already done with like 70% of the game, so it's honestly not far off.

And no, this is not even a problem unique to Galeforce - personally, I find all of the promoted Lv15 skills except Rally Spectrum to be really impractical to actually obtain.

It doesn't help that both Sumia and Cordelia are borderline unusable on Lunatic.

[Anouleth]

Concentrating EXP and resources isn't an issue. You can definitely have Sumia or Cordelia or Avatar with Galeforce by the time lategame begins and save turns.

Is Galeforce the best skill ever? Quite possibly. It's like having a free Dancer. Other skills are good, but they don't compare in my opinion. I think the only competition is stuff like Veteran and Sol, but even then, it's only really true on Lunatic where it makes the difference between being able to take infinite numbers of units on enemy phase.

[Junkhead]

Well, "by chapter 18" means you're already done with like 70% of the game, so it's honestly not far off.

And no, this is not even a problem unique to Galeforce - personally, I find all of the promoted Lv15 skills except Rally Spectrum to be really impractical to actually obtain.

It doesn't help that both Sumia and Cordelia are borderline unusable on Lunatic.

I dunno about Cordelia, but reguarding Sumia I wouldn't say the fact she gets 1HKO'd at base makes her unusable...besides, it's not like most of your team is surviving well beyond two hits, or getting doubled. Sumia should pay-off once she gets out of that hole.

"By the time you get "galeforce" the game is almost over". This is not true. I trained a balanced team and didnt favor Cordelia at all and she still got the skill by Chapter 18. If I favored Cordeiia, she can get it by C15, which is where it matters. Galeforce by tree is super easy btw. It's not overrated. It's hype is damn well deserved. It is an amazing skill. Be it LTC, Efficiency, casual w/e.

You yourself showed it's possible to 1-turn Ch.18 without it. Besides, it's not like Ch.19 isn't 1-turned without it, or the rest of the chapters.

[darkkfan]

I dunno about Cordelia, but reguarding Sumia I wouldn't say the fact she gets 1HKO'd at base makes her unusable...besides, it's not like most of your team is surviving well beyond two hits, or getting doubled. Sumia should pay-off once she gets out of that hole.

This is actually the case for most of the earlier characters on Luna and Luna+. You are pretty much forced to use Fred and Avatar/Chrom and aside from that you get maybe around 3 early units (2-4 really, depending on your play style), such as Sumia, that you can reasonably train. The usual candidates for this kind of a role are glass cannon and utility types like Miriel, Sumia, Lon'Qu, and Virion (Stahl, Sully, and Vaike may also fall under this category although they are less glass-cannon-y). These people will be weak at first but after a while they will keep up with other units like Chrom and Fred.

[shadykid]

Yep. If you are going for a Galeforce team (which ive done), the amount of grinding involved is rather crazy. For Inigo to have it, Olivia must be leveled, reclassed, leveled, promoted, and then level 15 Dark Flier. That alone is a lot of grinding. O.o

For Cynthia to have it out of the box, Sumia must be level 15 DF.

Same for Severa.

Noire would need to be Female Avatar's child to get Galeforce upon recruitment....(and Tharja would have to be paired with someone who offers pegknight for Noire to get it.)

For Brady to have it, see Oliva's example. Only with Maribelle.

Lucina needs a pegknight option for reclass to get it.

Building a Galeforce team takes forever. The only reason i can see (and do) building that kind of team is for DLC/Postgame/Streetpass stuff. (or possibly super high difficulties) Galeforce isnt that efficient for LTCing the main game if you really think about it. Especially since LTC peeps wouldnt be grinding. I think its perfectly sensible for people to want to forgo Galeforce for a tankier build for their guys.

eh to be fair, you could always pass on Owain, Inigo, and Brady until after beating the game (and male Morgan too I suppose) because even on Lunatic you don't need that many paralogues for extra training (and everyone else can grind later)

[Loki Laufeyson]

eh to be fair, you could always pass on Owain, Inigo, and Brady until after beating the game (and male Morgan too I suppose) because even on Lunatic you don't need that many paralogues for extra training (and everyone else can grind later)

The only reason i can see (and do) building that kind of team is for DLC/Postgame/Streetpass stuff.

[shadykid]

yeah, but the thing is Galeforce is nice for LTC, so there's this vague area of Galeforce not being useful which just so happens to occupy the same realm where Donnel is considered a god

Edited May 18, 2013 by shadykid

[Sasori]

I believe that galeforce is a greak skill, but its not something that makes or breaks a unit even if some people (on gamefaqs usually) act differently. I also think that its not worth my time to give galeforce to everyone who can learn it.

[Raine]

useless.

Alright, before you decide to skip over this as hate to the skill look at it this way:

galeforce, in the harder modes, has no place on your team because not only are primary offense fliers completely impractical due to their inability to really do a whole lot of damage but they don't actually GET galeforce until late game when you've already passed most the levels you'd need galeforce on anyway. Not to mention it's completely useless in streetpass seeing as its activation condition would cause the opponent to restart the game anyway meaning the skill would never proc. Sure, the concept of having a second turn is nice, but you have to be practical about how often said unit is actually going to be getting kills-- in lunatic, there's no way Sumia would be a front unit and expect to live in a close up fight meaning you'd have to give her a javalin against a non-magic user. Because her str is dismal she wouldn't be getting the kill anyway without another unit weakening the victim first putting that unit in a precarious position that could potentially be lethal and force you to start the level over. There's always the way you could somehow make it work-- but if you aren't guaranteeing activation for it to be useful, what's the point of having it?

[Tamanoir]

Galeforce is awesome when it works, but useless otherwise. It throws every balance out of the windows...

It's in no way a bad skill (quite the contrary), but it's really situational, and mainly works in situations it may not have been that needed in the first place...(because you already owned the ennemy without it...)

It's a truly overpowered broken skill, but that is actually is main problem...