What do you like more?

[Vestige]

When you're RPing, do you prefer to have stat elements and such in your RP, or do you prefer to roll with just the writer's pen?

[roymbrog]

Depends on the type of RP and the player base. If it's heavily combat oriented stats make things run smoother and faster in most cases. I've been in RPs where fights were RPed out and some would last for weeks because either no one wanted to win or no one wanted to lose, and they stalemated.

[Vestige]

No one wanted to win? Haha, that's interesting. You'd think everyone would seize the first opportunity to be the hero. Or victor.

[Acacia Sgt]

Stat-based may make things more controlled and smoother, though you'd have to design a suitable system you may end up changing continuously as its put to the test, or opt for one that's already built. I suppose it would largely depend.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Acacia Sgt

[roymbrog]

No one wanted to win? Haha, that's interesting. You'd think everyone would seize the first opportunity to be the hero. Or victor.

Yeah, but then some player groups you get people who don't want to be the special snowflake or desperately try to avoid making a mary sue (I apparenty fit in this category). When that happens, as weird as it may sound, people start fighting over who's weakest/most flawed/most realistic/ect. From what I've seen of the board there are about three different groups that usually join an RP in storm and one of them is like this.

[Vestige]

Ah, yes, that makes sense. To each their own and all that. Okay so, a question: Obviously in a stat-based RPG there's a much higher chance of death than in a non-stat (where you can pretty much BS to a degree and avoid death). What happens when someone (generally the RPer) who is an integral part of the story loses a battle?

Perma-death.
Retreat hacks.
Other?

Just want to know how this is dealt with in the RP's you guys have been in.

[roymbrog]

In most RPs I've been in it's a KO, usually a life threatening injury or something that would incapacitate someone (knocked unconscious, damaged weapon arm, enough pain to keep them from fighting, ect). However KOs are handled though I think deaths should be left up to the discretion of the RPer and not enforced universally, because sometimes the dice is just against you and it sucks to lose a valued character because of a bad roll.

[-Cynthia-]

If it's not stat based, there are the twin issues of godmodding (your character exhibits too much power and wins easily, decreasing enjoyment for other players) or as roy said, battles that last forever that nobody wins because no one wants to godmod. Stat battles allow conflicts to resolve in a more objective manner. Additionally, stat battles add a tactical element to RPs that some players may enjoy.

[Shin]

I prefer non-stat based, mostly because I can make a horrible character who doesn't lose because they stink.

[Leki]

Just signed up here, so be honored to take my first post! xD

It really depends on the type of RP, and the type of audience you're catering to. I mean I've tried organizing an RP with the average age of players being about 13, and frankly it doesn't work unless there's some sort of system in place to prevent people from playing the hero.

Could be wrong, but people who are more reserved and realistic/faulty are either experienced RP'ers, or people who are of certain age. More often than not, people who have seen an RP ruined by bratty 13 year olds who want to be the solution to every problem.

With a good group though, stats are unneccessarily, but online you usually end up with more 'randoms' than you do friends.

To be perfectly honest stats aren't my thing, they slow things down, and make things move clunkier. They work in some instances, but I'd rather write, than calculate, and stats are restricting for both better and worse. Overall I just tend to avoid RP's that are combat oriented since that seems to be the main user of stat based RP's.

Stats can work, but as Acacia Sgt said; it's need to be adapted constantly.

And more content doesn't always equate to a better system. Simple and effective is the best way to go, but on the other hand it needs to be interesting or rewarding enough to promote interest. If people start seeing stats as a hassle, scrapping the system usually isn't enough to continue the RP as a drastic change like that makes participants question DM/GM competency. So it's probably a good idea to refine and perhaps even consult with potential players before actually implementing a stat system.

---

How you deal with HP=0 is also dependant on the RP. In most cases it's better to just go with a knock-out (KO). But there are certain types of RP's were a death is more suited. (Dungeon run, D&D style thing). In most cases though, it's important to respect that the characters belong to individual participants, and killing them off without at least consulting their owners will result in unhappy people. xD

Not really sure if this was just a general discussion thing, or an attempt to test the waters for a planned RP :P

[roymbrog]

If this is to test the waters for a new RP, I do have an idea I'd like to share regarding stats.

I came up with this a while back but it hasn't been implemented anywhere yet, so it's completely theoretical at this point. It was a combination stat and non-stat RP base, where characters were required to have something akin to power levels in their sign up that would be compared to other characters and/or enemies to determine how much stronger or weaker they were. The stats weren't used directly in combat, but RPers would be expected to adhere to them in most cases. Actaully, I just found the thing, so let me put it here. It's taken from an RP sign up I was writing about a year ago.

[spoiler=Explanation]

Note: This is not a stat RP

Stats are not going to be used directly in combat. They exist to clarify the parameters of a character's abilities and powerscale within the RP. A PC's stats will be compared with an enemy's stats to determine differences in strength and RPers will be expected to act accordingly. Example: A character with strength 3 will not be OHKOing an enemy with strength 4 under most circumstances.

Here are the basics. There are a total of four stats: Stamina, Strength, Magic, and Speed.

Stamina determines a character's endurance, whether that be how long they can run without tiring or how many hits they can take in a fight. Characters with low stamina will not outlast those with high stamina under normal circumstances. Imagine it as a competition to see who can hold their arms out the longest. The character with higher stamina will win.

Strength determines both a character's attacking and defensive power. Characters with higher strength hurt things more when they hit them and hurt less when those things hit back.

Magic determines a character's magical prowess and their resistance. If it's high, you're better with spells and can withstand magical attacks directed at you.

Speed is a reflection of running speed, reaction time, and skill. Characters with high speed need not necessarily be fast, they might just be quick thinkers in a fight, be good at exploiting enemy weak spots, or be an excellent dodger.

These four stats work in tandem with each other. A character does not have to be good at everything the stat is linked to to have a high number in the stat. For instance, a long distance runner who can't take a hit might have high speed and stamina even though they go down quickly in a fight. You can have high magic without actually using magic if your character has enchanted items or natural resistance.

What's going to happen with these here stats is that when a plot battle happens (or possibly other event) I'll throw some numbers on the enemies and you can see how your guy stacks up. Then, having an idea of the power difference, you can RP accordingly. This also gives you something to visually show your character's skills (hey look, my guy's really fast! Ect.).

There are base stats for each character type. Upon sign up you will have some points to spend as you see fit. At certain plot points PCs will gain additional stat points. (note: enemies will not always follow this format)

Human – Available points = 6

STM: 1 STR: 1 MAG: 1 SPD: 1

Civilized Qualdish - Available points = 4

STM: 1 STR: 2 MAG: 3 SPD: 2 (Cannot use magic)

Barbaric Qualdish - Available points = 4

STM: 3 STR: 2 MAG: 2 SPD: 1 (Cannot use magic)

Merfolk – Available points = 5

STM: 2 STR: 1 MAG: 2 SPD: 1

Elf – Available points = 3

STM: 1 STR: 1 MAG: 3 SPD: 3

Dwarf – Available points = 3

STM: 3 STR: 3 MAG: 1 SPD: 1

[Snowy_One]

I personally don't care. Stats are a great way to quantify and keep people in line (as well as just being fun at times), but there will always be unique things happening in RP's which can't be resolved via stats. Going stat-less allows for improve flexibility, but you'll loose a degree of control that is important.

As for what you proposed, I like the idea, but I would suggest that you work hard to make sure the stats are constantly present, possibly even for mundane things. Otherwise you run the risk of them becoming irrelevant. Just a suggestion though.

[Leki]

Another problem with stats are that they're not really 'kind' on newer players. Don't know how things are around here, but on the site that I frequented people seldom joined stat RP's unless they were around from the very beginning. As you can imagine, people drop out of RP's all the time, and to keep things going new recruits are always great. Unfortunately with stat RP's the people that are around are (rightfully) stronger than the newer players, and that apparently doesn't sit well with potential applicant.

Stat boosting them and allowing them to start on the same level as others on the other hand result in the older players feeling dejected since their 'hardwork' starts feeling obsolete.

---

roymbrog

I've seent that style of statting in a few RP's. And I have to say that the biggest problem with them is applicability. More often than not, they start feeling obsolete after awhile and people just start ignoring them.

It's also extremely difficult to keep track of exp when it comes to indicator stats, so what I normally see is the GM handing out universal level-ups at certain intervals. Or fixed stats, where exp is removed completely and stats range from 1~5. With players able to have 5 STR right from the very start. Though in such cases the value of '5' gradually increases during the course of the RP. So max STR doesn't mean you'll be OHKO'ing a boss character or anything. It just means you're the strongest physically in the player base, and it'll be your fastest growing trait as the RP progresses.

Chances are that you've scrapped the above RP, but I'd personally suggest adding a Luck stat.

Luck: Would essentially be a useless trait that doesn't do anything normally, but it comes into play when there's a tie 3STR vs 3STR. Obviously putting points into LCK would be great universally, making it one of the most prized stats, but at the same time it'd be useless if you're other stats aren't strong enough for it to be brought into play.

[Toogee]

I would love to see a stat RP with permadeath just to see how the story would play out. It could make stories unpredictable. If the leader of the group gets killed off, then you might have a power struggle amongst the surviving members. Also, it means the good guys aren't guranteed wins simply because they're good.

[Shin]

I would love to see a stat RP with permadeath just to see how the story would play out. It could make stories unpredictable. If the leader of the group gets killed off, then you might have a power struggle amongst the surviving members. Also, it means the good guys aren't guranteed wins simply because they're good.

Furet's Shattered Honour was a lot like that. Except you either had to be silly or unlucky to die.

[Snowy_One]

The problem with that is that 1) It's totally possible to end up getting screwed by the dice (you rolled a critical failure on an otherwise-sure thing? Sucks to be you. You dieeee!). 2) The plot needs to be specifically constructed to allow for perma-deaths that won't end up screwing over everyone. 3) Any imbalances become hugely problematic as to miscalclations in enemy power (too weak and it ruins the point. Too strong and it's a total party wipe). 4) Really easy for people to end up being ***** and ganging up on one character resulting in an unwinnable situation that results in a character death.

Not saying it's impossible or bad, just needs to be handled carefully.

[Leki]

I would love to see a stat RP with permadeath just to see how the story would play out. It could make stories unpredictable. If the leader of the group gets killed off, then you might have a power struggle amongst the surviving members. Also, it means the good guys aren't guranteed wins simply because they're good.

While it's not stats, there's a certain thing called 'real life' or 'leavers' that have the exact same effect. Though more often than not it usually kills the RP along with the character. xD

Pretty much what SnowyOne said.

What you're probably looking for Toogee would only work if there was no overall plot. RP'ers are scarce enough as things are, and while people have varying preferences on how strong they want their character to be, seldom do people want their characters killed. In a type of RP you requested the possibility of being killed is ever present, and the possibility detracts from the motivation to develop a character, and adapt it to the plot.

So yeah, only type of plot where that would work is an RP crafted to fit that style of play.

I know of one ongoing RP that's like that. Essentially characters are thrown into a labyrinth full of monsters, and the sole objective/plot is to get out. Character interactions are fleeting, and posts are pretty obsolete. It's mainly a stats/dice game with text accompanying it seeing as 98% of it is rolling dice and killing monsters.

[Snowy_One]

I've seen, even designed one that could allow, such things (it focused on being gladiators in an arena). If you REALLY want such a thing and not have it become just post-blocks you need several things.

1) A fall-back way to survive. Pretty straight forwards. D&D had it so a character doesn't die unless they hit -10 HP and have multiple chances to stabilize. It may have been horrible odds, but it was at least THERE. Doing this made it so that a poorly thought-out choice or a bad roll wouldn't turn away newer players. In practice, even allowing something as simple as a 'retreat' can mean a LOT in terms of player retention.

2) Simplified stat-systems. It already sucks that my character has a chance of death beyond my control. Having to crawl through an hours worth of stat-building and micromanagement on TOP of that as well as detailed rolls... You're begging for a player revolt.

3) Peace. You don't want people just making characters to throw into a meat-grinder. You want them to get attached and care about them. You want them to want their characters to SURVIVE! If the characters and players toss out characters to die who aren't being liked, the death holds no impact. I mean, think about it, who did you care more about in Star Trek II? Spock or the redshirts?

Anyways, it's totally possible to have an RP where the good guys don't always win just by being the good guys. That happened in LoAF IIRC where Helenos basically curbed (or at least would have curbed) the party in their first battle against her.

[Rehab]

Stats help me differentiate characters, in that they help me quantify what it is they're good at (obviously). If a character has a lot of points put into in a class-exclusive skill, I can translate that into said character having a lot of specialized knowledge, for example. It helps me imagine what kind of life they lead, their mannerisms, etc.

[Toogee]

@ Leki and Snowy_One

Easy there, guys. The thread asked what I liked, so that's what I posted. Does it require specifics? Yes, and if I were actually making the RP, I'd go through them. But I'm not, so I didn't.

[Vestige]

@Leki: Haha, the honor is all mine. And yeah, I get what you're saying. Personally stats seem to make things clunkier from my perception but I can't say anything directly as I haven't had the chance to engage myself in one. And to your last comment, no this isn't really testing the waters so much as just general curiosity. (No way in hell am I responsible enough to GM my own RP haha. I'd probably end up quitting from all the work and I'd hate to be "that guy" who ruins it for everyone else. :p)

@roymbrog: Ah, that's an interesting way of looking at things. Can't say I've seen anything similar myself but then again, I can't say I've seen many RP's at all! Haha. Besides the ones on this forum which are, coincidentally, mostly stat based.

Yeah, now that I think about it perma-death seems like a bad idea. Haha. Now, something else I'm curious about, albeit it doesn't have much to do with stats (we can carry two conversations at once can't we?) is the problem of dropouts. New characters coming into an RP seems easy enough to work through. But what about leaving? How do you deal with someone who for the most part was an essential part of the story who suddenly, for whatever reason, leaves? Is there any way of dealing with this that doesn't include "uhh yeah, he had...family issues to deal with? so now we have to continue our adventure without him/her" or like "oh whoops looks like he died in that last fight..anyway...".

[Toogee]

But what about leaving? How do you deal with someone who for the most part was an essential part of the story who suddenly, for whatever reason, leaves? Is there any way of dealing with this that doesn't include "uhh yeah, he had...family issues to deal with? so now we have to continue our adventure without him/her" or like "oh whoops looks like he died in that last fight..anyway...".

Usually, those characters just hide in the background. It's assumed that they follow the group. This works well in case the person who left happens to come back.

[-Cynthia-]

Yeah, now that I think about it perma-death seems like a bad idea. Haha. Now, something else I'm curious about, albeit it doesn't have much to do with stats (we can carry two conversations at once can't we?) is the problem of dropouts. New characters coming into an RP seems easy enough to work through. But what about leaving? How do you deal with someone who for the most part was an essential part of the story who suddenly, for whatever reason, leaves? Is there any way of dealing with this that doesn't include "uhh yeah, he had...family issues to deal with? so now we have to continue our adventure without him/her" or like "oh whoops looks like he died in that last fight..anyway...".

How leavers are dealt with depends on the character in question. Sometimes the character leaves the group for personal reasons, sometimes they die. If they're necessary to the story, we generally have someone else control the character.

[Phoenix]

I couldn't vote for either since I'm at a point where I really don't find stats 'fun' by any means. I prefer them but that's it really. Basically if I've got to choose either risking involvement in non-statted fights that drag on too long/devolve into OoC competitiveness or choose hyper builds and occasional bragging/moaning, I'm going with the latter. This is different if it's just one person writing a fight between two characters they control, but if it's one rper vs another, I'd rather not even have to read or hear about it, ever lol

[Snowy_One]

I'm curious and this seems like a good place/time to ask. How would you guys feel about a forum wars/tactics type RPG? Basically every player takes control of a small kingdom and armies as well as a plot of land and vies for control of a world? It would be stat-based, allow for deaths, and allow for valid roleplaying as well (since diplomacy would be very key in not getting curbed). I have some mild past experience and possibly an old sign-up/intro topic floating around somewhere to make things easier if such a thing were to happen.