The Galeforce Thread

[Florete]

You are taking this way too far. There is not one way to be good at the game.

When non-tier goers complain that tier lists and the people who discuss them are just SHFGs ruining the game for everyone else, you're the person they are complaining about.

[Chiki]

They can choose to ignore the tier list if they wish. People just like to complain.

What other way is there to be good at the game?

[Florete]

It's been so long (5 years) since I've actually met someone like you I'm finding it's not easy to even find the proper response.

I consider myself pretty good at the game and I only rarely use Galeforce. Is this an oxymoron to you?

[Camilla]

When people play for fun they are usually just messing around, like when you do your first playthrough of a new game. Your main concern is seeing the characters and seeing the plot, caring about tiers and skills and best pairing matches usually don't come to mind. You're just trying to have some fun and enjoy the game.

I don't see what the problem is in not counting "for fun" playthroughs. It seems obvious.

[Espinosa]

If you want a good comparison, not every playthrough of Pokemon Yellow has to be a Nidoking solo, even if the player knows the game inside out.

Olwen's defence of Galeforce is unsurprising knowing his stance on Mia's 2 shoves in FE9; in fact, it's noticeably less extreme.

[Chiki]

If you want a good comparison, not every playthrough of Pokemon Yellow has to be a Nidoking solo, even if the player knows the game inside out.

Olwen's defence of Galeforce is unsurprising knowing his stance on Mia's 2 shoves in FE9; in fact, it's noticeably less extreme.

Lol extreme. I said she should be moved up a single position in the tier list because she can save a single turn over Zihark!

[Interceptor]

You are taking this way too far. There is not one way to be good at the game.

When non-tier goers complain that tier lists and the people who discuss them are just SHFGs ruining the game for everyone else, you're the person they are complaining about.

^ Yup, exactly.

This thread is the ultimate evidence of it, even. What's wrong with discussing the topic in one of the many places where the Galeforce argument already burns? Put down your pencils, I'll give you the answer: we don't have the Oracle OP laying down the law from atop the highest mountain in THOSE threads, that's what's wrong.

I care almost nothing for Galeforce, but I care more for that skill than I do for people who cannot possibly comprehend the problem with their One Ring™ playstyle elitism.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Interceptor

[Chiki]

Lol at the people here distorting my views. I never claimed that LTCing was the only way to play well.

I will grant that, for example, completing hard modes like FE12 H3 is a sign that a player is good, or better than casual. But Galeforce has its uses there too:

1. Killing enemies before more reinforcements come and ending the chapter.

2. Guerilla warfare (making it impossible for an enemy to kill you as you can flee after killing something).

3. Getting more exp.

4. Saving another unit from dying.

[Anouleth]

I would argue that a good team should include Galeforce striker pairings, assuming by "a good team" we mean "a team capable of beating TSON handily" as that's the only time something like "team makeup" honestly makes the slightest bit of difference. Outside those parameters any team that has okay weapons and skill setup is a "good team," which dilutes the meaning of the phrase (as that's not exactly hard to do).

Could you build a team that wins without it? Sure. Should your team be comprised entirely of characters who have learned and equipped it? Of course not; you need/want people who fill other roles that don't derive benefit from the skill. Should your team have a fair number of people who do have it? Yes, for crying out loud, it should!

But... understand what those units are for, and what the non-Galeforce units are for. Your tank is your armor/infantry, absorbing hits and drawing things in. Your support is artillery (although in some cases it's artillery that heals people) and logistics (in the form of buffs/dancing/whatever). And the Galeforce units are your air support, penetrating to do tons of damage and withdrawing and/or smashing high-value targets (things that would threaten the tank if allowed an Enemy Phase) in quick succession. Lots of skills support each role, most of them have very little overlap, and they should all be structured appropriately. You wouldn't put Aggressor on your Enemy Phase damage sponge if he's never going to use it. Likewise you wouldn't put Galeforce on him if his goal is to stand in one spot and draw stuff in.

Neither of those things makes Galeforce+Aggressor useless or "overrated." Try them together on an offense unit and you'll see clearly just how crazy it really is. But that's for an offense unit that goes in hard and slips back out unscathed. That's its role, and unlike a lot of skills Galeforce is really not optional to maximize that unit's potential. By contrast, there's a lot of ways to tank. That's what makes Galeforce such an important and interesting skill. It has essentially no analogue outside of Olivia, and Olivia doesn't produce equivalent turn advantage since she trades her turn for somebody else's where a Galeforce user just materializes a free turn out of nowhere when they win a fight.

Except that Galeforce isn't interesting. Olivia is interesting because it forces you to deal with a frail, slow unit that can't deal significant enemy phase damage. But there's no reason not to put Galeforce on your "tank", or your "artillery", or your pet dog, or anyone who has any chance at all of killing something on player phase. Edited May 21, 2013 by Anouleth

[Chiki]

Except that Galeforce isn't interesting. Olivia is interesting because it forces you to deal with a frail, slow unit that can't deal significant enemy phase damage. But there's no reason not to put Galeforce on your "tank", or your "artillery", or your pet dog, or anyone who has any chance at all of killing something on player phase.

Personal opinion.

[algae]

Personal opinion.

With a valid point behind it. He's basically saying that there's no reason not to use it and no unit that would not benefit from having it. It's basically a free extra action with no downsides, compared to getting an extra action at the cost of fielding a unit who can barely defend herself.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Alg

[Scarlet]

I have beaten the game on Classic Lunatic.

I'll admit that Galeforce is a great skill when you do actually have it.

However, personally, my issue with it is that just like all the other Lv15 promoted skills, it's just such a damn hassle to get. I don't see a reason to go out of my way to get as many Galeforce units as possible when I can beat the game in much less time by just playing with what I already have.

Sure, once you do have Galeforce, clearing chapters becomes even easier and takes a bit less effort, but in my opinion, that doesn't outweigh the time and effort spent actually getting it.

Sure, you need Galeforce for the absolute lowest turncounts possible.

But is it fun to basically ignore half the game and just flat-out one-turn every chapter? The first time you do it, sure, because you accomplished something. Then it just becomes boring.

[Chiki]

With a valid point behind it. He's basically saying that there's no reason not to use it and no unit that would not benefit from having it. It's basically a free extra action with no downsides, compared to getting an extra action at the cost of fielding a unit who can barely defend herself.

Just because a skill isn't interesting doesn't mean it isn't broken. That's the most stupid argument I've ever heard.

Anyway, I think it's interesting. A free action leads to a lot of potential strategies. Personal opinion.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Olwen

[euklyd]

Lol at the people here distorting my views. I never claimed that LTCing was the only way to play well.

-snip-

They can choose to ignore the tier list if they wish. People just like to complain.

What other way is there to be good at the game?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that certainly sounds like claiming that LTC - or at least efficiency - is the only way to be good at the game.

And to answer your question, you can be good at the game by using strategies that are simply reliable and result in a minimum of deaths/resetting, as opposed to praying for a lucky critical/dual strike, or an enemy missing, or whatever, or rigging level-ups, and what-not.

Also, I'm gonna point out that fairly recently, you did indeed ignore the existing tier list and created your own. And I believe that there was some complaining involved.

[Constable Reggie]

Galeforce is obviously the best thing thats happened to any FE character ever. Don't even bother using chumps like Panne or Sully, those guys are absolute failures. If you do, well, you're a loser.

[Chiki]

What other way is there to be good at the game?

I was asking an honest question. I do believe LTCing is not the only way to be good at the game--that's plain stupid--but it is one of them.

Also, I'm gonna point out that fairly recently, you did indeed ignore the existing tier list and created your own.

One can make a tier list based on merely completing LM. But who cares about that? The easiest way to complete LM is to do an Avatar solo. I beat it in a couple hours on my first try. It's not worth discussing.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Olwen

[Baldrick]

Olwen thinks that the only way to be good at this game is LTCing.

Thank you for summing up my point of view.

Hm.

On-topic: I don't know what Awakening is like, but if you reach level 15 promoted by midgame in the other games, you can basically stomp all over every non-boss enemy in the game. So the need for Galeforce is minimal.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Baldrick

[Chiki]

Hm.

Lol, it was a joke. You can tell from the post that I wasn't serious.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Olwen

[Sweq32]

Boy, oh boy did this thread spike in posts from my last viewing. Guess I'll add my two cents.

Much like most people have said, Galeforce is a leisure, but not a requirement. It also acts more like a speedrun type of skill if some units are high up in levels/got good levels a lot.

I honestly think that, while it isn't necessary, having it around for post-game content is VERY rewarding, mostly for TSON. Given that it may seem pointless in the main story, and it can be in my eyes, there are plenty of uses for it in DLC maps, and I've come to love it for that. I try to pass Galeforce on to everyone possible most of the time, and most of them who can't get it end up having to act as my tanks (usually Sorc tanks, considering the sheer game-breaking ability of Nosferatu and Aversa's Night, especially with Vantage and Armsthrift).

All in all, Galeforce deserves special mention in most skillsets, but is in no way required.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Those going on about how "playing for fun" isnt valid enough to discuss, ummm...yeah arent we all playing this game to enjoy ourselves? In fact, if im doing a "funzies" run, im grinding and getting Galeforce on as many guys as possible. Cuz i think minmaxing is pretty fun. A LTC run would cut out grinding, so the only peeps really getting it are possibly:
Sumia

Cordelia

FeAvatar

And them getting the skill before midgame without grinding is lol. (talking HM and up. Avatar could get it relatively early though.)

I really dont understand why people are arguing this in the first place. Let people play the game the way they want, OP.

[Chiki]

Those going on about how "playing for fun" isnt valid enough to discuss, ummm...yeah arent we all playing this game to enjoy ourselves? In fact, if im doing a "funzies" run, im grinding and getting Galeforce on as many guys as possible. Cuz i think minmaxing is pretty fun. A LTC run would cut out grinding, so the only peeps really getting it are possibly:

Sumia

Cordelia

FeAvatar

And them getting the skill before midgame without grinding is lol. (talking HM and up. Avatar could get it relatively early though.)

I really dont understand why people are arguing this in the first place. Let people play the game the way they want, OP.

Why don't I just play with the characters who show cleavage for the most fun in my next playthrough? That clearly means I'm better than someone good at playing the harder modes or LTCs.

[algae]

Just because a skill isn't interesting doesn't mean it isn't broken. That's the most stupid argument I've ever heard.

Anyway, I think it's interesting. A free action leads to a lot of potential strategies. Personal opinion.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with that, just saying that he has a point. It's not interesting in the sense that its only weakness is that you might not get it to activate every turn. I read that post as him saying that it isn't interesting because of how centralizing it can be, and how little reason you have to choose it over something else.

For what it's worth, I like the skill, but I can see why so many people have problems with it. It's incredibly useful in some situations, and absolutely useless in others.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Alg

[Sweq32]

Those going on about how "playing for fun" isnt valid enough to discuss, ummm...yeah arent we all playing this game to enjoy ourselves? In fact, if im doing a "funzies" run, im grinding and getting Galeforce on as many guys as possible. Cuz i think minmaxing is pretty fun. A LTC run would cut out grinding, so the only peeps really getting it are possibly:

Sumia

Cordelia

FeAvatar

And them getting the skill before midgame without grinding is lol. (talking HM and up. Avatar could get it relatively early though.)

I really dont understand why people are arguing this in the first place. Let people play the game the way they want, OP.

People seem to always consider using "it's fun" as a legitimate argument for anything, since it's very subjective. However, it is true that MOST of us play for fun (although I know a couple of people who play the game in a different light), myself included. Playing the game the way you want is pretty much how all Fire Emblems have been, since the entirety of the games is about making decisions that stick with you. Although to be fair, only pairings and the choice of letting characters die are permanent choices, I believe.

[Redwall]

Those going on about how "playing for fun" isnt valid enough to discuss, ummm...yeah arent we all playing this game to enjoy ourselves? In fact, if im doing a "funzies" run, im grinding and getting Galeforce on as many guys as possible. Cuz i think minmaxing is pretty fun. A LTC run would cut out grinding, so the only peeps really getting it are possibly:

Sumia

Cordelia

FeAvatar

And them getting the skill before midgame without grinding is lol. (talking HM and up. Avatar could get it relatively early though.)

I really dont understand why people are arguing this in the first place. Let people play the game the way they want, OP.

I don't think Olwen is saying that leisurely play is not worth discussing. Playing for fun certainly makes for valid discussion; however, when it comes to deciding which skills should be ranked above others, it is more objective to eschew our intuitive notions of what makes a character good in favor of well-defined, falsifiable ideas like turncounts or reliability.

[Constable Reggie]

I don't know about you, but I play videogames to validate myself to all the internets people. Fun is for bad players.