How to fix FE13's terrible story.

[Faye]

I'd axe Walmart and give more screentime villainy to Gangrel and Validar. D8 The former is far more interesting than the silly lobster, and Validar is like SO MUCH WASTED POTENTIAL he could have been a more interesting villain if we didn't waste time with Valm and Walmart. Augh.

And I don't mind My Unit, they just should be given a lesser role next time.

[BrightBow]

After Plegia, the focus starts to shift more and more on Avatar and the story starts falling apart very quickly.

Solution? Get rid of the avatar. A self insert to such a huge level always does more harm than good.

I don't think that his problem is his role in the narrative. The problem I see is that everything has to resolve around him.

So we get scenes like Chrom telling Avatar how close Emmeryn and how kind she is, but we never actually see any of that.

If it wasn't for the game bending backwards to keep everything focused on him instead of the other supposed main characters, he wouldn't be much different then other living MacGuffins like Julia or Ninian.

Another problem I see with Avatar, is that he is just like your average Lord:

Somebody without much characterization, in order to be easily identifiable... except the average Lord still exist in the from of Chrom.

They should just make the Lord customizable and leave it at that.

Edited May 29, 2013 by BrightBow

[Tamanoir]

The problem isn't that there are too much focus on the Avatar, the problem is that the focus is for all the wrong reasons;

All the focus on MU is first to explain how the world works (and even that isn't explained enough...), and secondly : "Looks how awesome s/he is !".

The Avatar is an interresting character,and the focus on him is justified, but because they wanted you to believe he is a self-insert, they decided to watered dowm him/her and making the blandest character ever. In other world, it's true wasted potential. I don't feel him existed, I can't share his feelings. (something that I can do in each PMD games, who have far less character developpment. At the end of a PMD game, you're really sad to lose your trusted partner, where here I couldn't give a damn about Chrom, especially if I didn't marry him).

MU should be like in FE, another member of the Shepherd without any story importance. A simple spectator. The Supports would absolutely not change at all. (His particularity is never talked about, even with charcters that are recruited after the reveal. That's incredibly stupid...). sipports should developp both characters, else they are just useless pieces of dialogue.

So, makes Robin a fully fleshed characters (or two, as was already proposed), and makes the Avatar a simple member of the Shepherd. You can't make both a self-insert and an interresting character. You can even makes Robin (F) marry automatically Chrom, if you think it increases the story, you know...

[The Void]

Thinking about it, this game's story and setting has a habit of being vague and not that explained.

Look at Grima. it's apparently another Earth Dragon (which isn't stated ingame) and that raises further questions about it. Like how it came about what with the Earth Dragon seal.

I suspect at least part of it can be tied to wanting to leave things open enough for a follow up.

Edited May 29, 2013 by The Void

[Jotari]

Definitely should have had Virion do something in Valm. On my Lunatic play through he died the chapter I got him which made him turning up again later in the game seem completely out of place since he never appeared again and everyone apparently knows him already (the later of which I guess wouldn't be resolved if he had a bigger role later on). And yes Tiki is awesome and should have had an important role in the plot instead of being a cameo with some exposition.

[Vashiane]

Definitely should have had Virion do something in Valm. On my Lunatic play through he died the chapter I got him which made him turning up again later in the game seem completely out of place since he never appeared again and everyone apparently knows him already (the later of which I guess wouldn't be resolved if he had a bigger role later on). And yes Tiki is awesome and should have had an important role in the plot instead of being a cameo with some exposition.

Agreed on both parts (that IS kind of odd, I wish they could have accounted for that), but definitely on the bolded part.

[BlueLeafeon]

I think the main issue is a severe lack of in-depth cutscenes and Great Walls of Text which were very common in past games. NPCs that were generally existent only as plot devices and had no purpose, no mention, no existence beyond that. (The priest guy that betrayed Chrom and Co. in the mountain area, for example.) The lack of ability to have characters talk to one-another for purposes OTHER than recruiting. I should think that if Sully pops up in chapter 1, she should be able to use a Talk command with Chrom. It adds a more personal touch to the game and makes it seem less like people are just joining forces without talking.

So, makes Robin a fully fleshed characters (or two, as was already proposed), and makes the Avatar a simple member of the Shepherd. You can't make both a self-insert and an interresting character. You can even makes Robin (F) marry automatically Chrom, if you think it increases the story, you know...

I agree with this. A real self-insert needs to be some ordinary person, not some genius strategic mastermind.

[Jotari]

Yeah that guy who betrayed them in the mountain chapter felt really out of place. Even if he had shown up in at least one scene before that it would have made some sense. The way it is now it just confuses me as to why the bothered to stick an NPC in there at all instead of just saying Gangrel predicted them going that way.

[solrocknroll]

FE4 bored me. I like this game's story better and this idea steals from FE4. This game at least shakes up the "Parents death" thing.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Viridi

[BlueLeafeon]

Yeah that guy who betrayed them in the mountain chapter felt really out of place. Even if he had shown up in at least one scene before that it would have made some sense. The way it is now it just confuses me as to why the bothered to stick an NPC in there at all instead of just saying Gangrel predicted them going that way.

Yeah...it's overly blatent that he's just there to be a plot device. It would have passed, had Chrom and company SAID SOMETHING about him later. Like asking where he went or at least commenting on the fact that a bandit killed him in plain sight of Chrom & Co. That chapter is overly ridiculous in how the creators made no attempt to make it seem like it WASN'T filler.

Edited May 29, 2013 by MagicLeafy

[Tamanoir]

Yeah...it's overly blatent that he's just there to be a plot device. It would have passed, had Chrom and company SAID SOMETHING about him later. Like asking where he went or at least commenting on the fact that a bandit killed him in plain sight of Chrom & Co. That chapter is overly ridiculous in how the creators made no attempt to make it seem like it WASN'T filler.

And then you have Mustapha...

Trying to makes us care and think about the reasons behind the war on one chapter. Once again, if we had at least some narration introducing him, this would have been better.

For some reasons, even Uhei didn't post as much problem as him. I'm not even sure he has special combat dialogue with other characters.

I agree with this. A real self-insert needs to be some ordinary person, not some genius strategic mastermind.

It was more about the backstory. No,e of us have lived something similar to Robin's story (If it's the case, you have a whole differnet kind of problems at hands...).

And Robin seems concequently weidly bland comparing to what happens to him.

Even if the Avatar is Chrom and the Shepherd's Tactician, at least you can project whatever you want on him.

They tried to make both a unique character and a self-insert and fell at both completely.

[Shengar]

That's why I called the game have terrible directing (also writing). Many moment that they thought should have invoked some emotions, failed miserably to do so because lack of foreshadowing. So terrible on how they handled things that story become detractment for my enjoyment. For me, I enjoyed the game most when I'm see character or backstory relevant support conversation. FE is a game with many characters, and I myself struggled to find the best form of story to make from that amount cast.

[shadykid]

That's why I called the game have terrible directing (also writing). Many moment that they thought should have invoked some emotions, failed miserably to do so because lack of foreshadowing. So terrible on how they handled things that story become detractment for my enjoyment. For me, I enjoyed the game most when I'm see character or backstory relevant support conversation. FE is a game with many characters, and I myself struggled to find the best form of story to make from that amount cast.

this may be talking about Awakening, but you could've fooled me if you said you were talking about Radiant Dawn

[mewyeon]

I didn't think the story was terrible, but I do agree it would've been nice if they'd done a bit more with characters like Mustafa or the bishop, like someone mentioned before.

[Shengar]

this may be talking about Awakening, but you could've fooled me if you said you were talking about Radiant Dawn

I never owned a Wii so er......I don't really know what you mean.

[shadykid]

I never owned a Wii so er......I don't really know what you mean.

terrible writing?

lack of characterization?

story was a detriment?

too many characters?

the only thing you said that didn't fit criticisms of radiant dawn was the emotion-evoking part

[Party Moth]

If they instead focused on the value of human life over the value of a single human life (particularly Avatar) then the story would have been improved tremendously.

[Tamanoir]

Makes Excellus reveals that he was Grima all along. Chapter 20 will then be Cervantes and Wallhart with the remnant of the valmese army against Excellus!Grima and his army of Risen. Then he takes over the Hierophan-t body under defeat...

[arvilino]

And then you have Mustapha...

Trying to makes us care and think about the reasons behind the war on one chapter. Once again, if we had at least some narration introducing him, this would have been better.

For some reasons, even Uhei didn't post as much problem as him. I'm not even sure he has special combat dialogue with other characters.

I'd disagree with the Mustapha point, it would have ruined it if there was narration introducing him or building him up more. It'd only serve to put a spotlight just on him(basically a whole Camus thing where one guy's feeling/relationship are made to appear more important than the army he's commanding) when really the point is that a lot of the Plegia army in general is reasonable and sympathetic to Ylisse and not just that one honorable general we learned all about and feel sorry for but not his troops Mustapha.

[Tamanoir]

I'd disagree with the Mustapha point, it would have ruined it if there was narration introducing him or building him up more. It'd only serve to put a spotlight just on him(basically a whole Camus thing where one guy's feeling/relationship are made to appear more important than the army he's commanding) when really the point is that a lot of the Plegia army in general is reasonable and sympathetic to Ylisse and not just that one honorable general we learned all about and feel sorry for but not his troops Mustapha.

But the focus is already only on Mustapha. We see absolutely noboyelse with a redeemable aspect. They are either loyal, or chaotic. like Vasto.

Even the Plegian who joins your team (Tharja and Henry) aren't the most positive characters !

The only point here is Mustapha was a great guy and Emmeryn is Jesus.

We don't have any example of nice plegians before. Actually, the ost sympathetic Plegian we have (Excluding Henry and Tharja) is Gangrel, who is a crazy hatefull lunatic.

[arvilino]

But the focus is already only on Mustapha. We see absolutely noboyelse with a redeemable aspect. They are either loyal, or chaotic. like Vasto.

Even the Plegian who joins your team (Tharja and Henry) aren't the most positive characters !

The only point here is Mustapha was a great guy and Emmeryn is Jesus.

We don't have any example of nice plegians before. Actually, the ost sympathetic Plegian we have (Excluding Henry and Tharja) is Gangrel, who is a crazy hatefull lunatic.

That's not what I'm talking about, I mean like the conversation between the generic Plegian Soldier and Mustapha in the battle. That 's what I mean by the Plegians as a whole being sympathetic and Mustapha's claim that Emm's words may(did) reach others.

I'm saying I like that a single Plegian character isn't hoisted far above the rest as if the rest of the army didn't matter (like a Camus figure), because a lot of the time an example of a nice [insert Fire Emblem country] character is treated by the plot(even if unintentionally) as being sole nice one and your suggestion of building up Mustapha would have made the plot point fall into the exact same trap.

Edited June 2, 2013 by arvilino

[Tamanoir]

That's not what I'm talking about, I mean like the conversation between the generic Plegian Soldier and Mustapha in the battle. That 's what I mean by the Plegians as a whole being sympathetic and Mustapha's claim that Emm's words may(did) reach others.

I'm saying I like that a single Plegian character isn't hoisted far above the rest as if the rest of the army didn't matter (like a Camus figure), because a lot of the time an example of a nice [insert Fire Emblem country] character is treated by the plot(even if unintentionally) as being sole nice one and your suggestion of building up Mustapha would have made the plot point fall into the exact same trap.

Yeah, I kind see your point.This could have still have been done better.

And that's still mainly about Emmelyn's effect on them.

[KnightOfCalc]

Here's an idea I thought of.

What if, after the Plegian War, the game cuts to Walhart battling the Chon'sin and encountering Risen over there (Much like FE7 switching from Lyn mode to Eliwood/Hector mode). Walhart would be the main lord for 7 chapters or so, with Cervantes, Excellus, and a couple of the other generals as playable characters. This arc would end with Excellus blackmailing Yen'fay and making plans with Aversa (However, unlike current story, Walhart doesn't know). After that, the two years between chapters 11 and 12 and it is Chrom's time to shine once again. The story continues similarly to how it is now, but Chrom is grieving a little bit more than now over his sister. Everything goes according to the current game story until Chrom gets to Walhart. Walhart is defeated the first time. However, instead of the Southern Dynasts joining up with Chrom, a large wave of risen appears. Walhart, having encountered the foul risen before, leads the remainder of his men against the risen as NPCs in this chapter. It turns out that it was Excellus who had planned this ambush of risen with some Grimleal.

After this chapter, seeing that Chrom is aiming to fight against Grima as he was planning to do, Walhart grudgingly agrees to help Chrom for a time. Again, Walhart would be something of another Lord.

Again, this is just an idea.

[Ragnell]

Frankly, I think people are getting too focused on this game's story. The story itself makes its purpose very clear: the bonds between characters are more important than anything else. This idea expands to gameplay in the form of Pair Up and Dual actions, and in the story is expressed by... well, not having a super detailed story. This is a character-driven story, rather than a more plot-driven one. Past FE games have had massive amounts of dialogue before and after chapters written to get across their complex plots. Heck, that has been a common criticism of FE games: they read like a book. Awakening's writers clearly focused their time writing the mounds of support conversations between individual characters rather than pre-battle dialogue.

Did the plot get a little bland as a result? Yeah. But I thought it served its purpose. It gave you enough reason to keep playing to view the real meat of the writing: the supports. I would have very much appreciated a little more backstory to Grima and Chrom (what's this about a murderous father?), I wished we could see more average people to better immerse us in the world, and the priest guy who betrayed them was laughable, but I don't care that much because the support writing is so darn good.

A better choice system which altered dialogue based on your Avatar's behavior/personality could have made him much more interesting, but again, the writers only have so much time, which they obviously devoted most of to the supports. The only real flaw in Awakening in my eyes is that it was too ambitious. More writing could have definitely made it feel more real. But I'm pleased enough with how things turned out.

[Shengar]

Frankly, I think people are getting too focused on this game's story. The story itself makes its purpose very clear: the bonds between characters are more important than anything else. This idea expands to gameplay in the form of Pair Up and Dual actions, and in the story is expressed by... well, not having a super detailed story. This is a character-driven story, rather than a more plot-driven one. Past FE games have had massive amounts of dialogue before and after chapters written to get across their complex plots. Heck, that has been a common criticism of FE games: they read like a book. Awakening's writers clearly focused their time writing the mounds of support conversations between individual characters rather than pre-battle dialogue.

Did the plot get a little bland as a result? Yeah. But I thought it served its purpose. It gave you enough reason to keep playing to view the real meat of the writing: the supports. I would have very much appreciated a little more backstory to Grima and Chrom (what's this about a murderous father?), I wished we could see more average people to better immerse us in the world, and the priest guy who betrayed them was laughable, but I don't care that much because the support writing is so darn good.

A better choice system which altered dialogue based on your Avatar's behavior/personality could have made him much more interesting, but again, the writers only have so much time, which they obviously devoted most of to the supports. The only real flaw in Awakening in my eyes is that it was too ambitious. More writing could have definitely made it feel more real. But I'm pleased enough with how things turned out.

I'm pretty much agree with your post here, with some note of course. While I agree the main focus of the game is the bond between unit, the main story of the game is still the Avatar and Chrom defeating Grima, which heavily plot driven. It is the side stories, the interaction between characters that is heavily character driven. They exposed the story through Chrom, Avatar, and plot-related character(s) not, their interaction so many side characters feels pretty much outside of story after their introduction.

While not all the support (and characters) have the best quality, some of them are excellent and pretty amusing. What frustate is that the main story feel like a detriment to my enjoyment because the support conversation. I wished it though that the main story is more character driven, so the support conversation not feel like a separate entity, and become a supplement to the main story instead.

Yeah it needs massive writing to be done. Awakening is pretty ambitious, while the team done all of that under pressure of being the last of their work. It still surprising that much of the support conversation and the gameplay element managed to overshadowed the flawed story it had.