Sumia is underrated

[Vashiane]

Cordelia did not really have a better options than Sumia either

Stahl and Vaike and thats it

You forgot Gregor and Frederick.

[ZemZem]

you're preaching to the wrong choir; it looks like there's only a handful of people that get what you're saying

Preach it to GameFAQs and you'll get tore a new one.

You forgot Gregor and Frederick.

Oh yeah, Gregor's a good one, too. But he works better with say, Cherche or Nowi.

[Chiki]

You guys can pair up Sumia with Henry if you wish, but there's no reason to when you already have a perfectly good S support which allows you to kill tanky Paladins and Generals (a paired up Frederick holding a Beast Killer or a Hammer).

[Anacybele]

You guys can pair up Sumia with Henry if you wish, but there's no reason to when you already have a perfectly good S support which allows you to kill tanky Paladins and Generals (a paired up Frederick holding a Beast Killer or a Hammer).

When you prefer Sumia's other options with other women like me, there is a reason to pair her with Henry. I don't base my choices off of statistics alone. I also based them heavily off the support convos.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Anacybele

[ZemZem]

Also, it's not that I think I have to marry Fred to Sumia if I make them pair up in battle once or twice. It's that I also want to build supports between the married pairings that I DO want, like FreddyxFemale Avatar and GaiusxMaribelle. My dislike for Sumia also makes me reluctant to have her near Fred at all. xP

Now that's just downright silly. You can not like Sumia all you want, that's alright and no one can hold it against you. But neglecting one of the best pairings in the game due to positive Frederick bias and negative Sumia bias?

[Anacybele]

Now that's just downright silly. You can not like Sumia all you want, that's alright and no one can hold it against you. But neglecting one of the best pairings in the game due to positive Frederick bias and negative Sumia bias?

You forget that I play on normal mode. I don't need the absolute most powerful team to beat it, I think. xP

[Vashiane]

You guys can pair up Sumia with Henry if you wish, but there's no reason to when you already have a perfectly good S support which allows you to kill tanky Paladins and Generals (a paired up Frederick holding a Beast Killer or a Hammer).

There's plenty of reasons, but this kind of got covered yesterday.

Plus, although Frederick x Sumia is a good fail-free tactic, I like a little experimentation, and I don't mind pairing her with my Avatar for a while until I get Henry for her.

You forget that I play on normal mode. I don't need the absolute most powerful team to beat it, I think. xP

I play Normal/Classic and Hard/Casual, so I feel you. Power's nice, but I paid 50-something dollars for this game, I'm going to milk as many combinations and experiences out of it that I can.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Vashiane

[Chiki]

Just so you know Sumia isn't ranked based on your personal dislike of her, Anacybele. I am arguing that Sumia is good based on a hard mode efficiency context. Your personal opinion here is completely out of place.

[ZemZem]

You forget that I play on normal mode. I don't need the absolute most powerful team to beat it, I think. xP

That's a true point. I haven't done NM before since it seems to me that it'll be a breeze since HM after a while becomes a cakewalk, but I guess Sumia wouldn't be as important as she is on HM and above.

[Interceptor]

Nope, not incorrect. If Sumia was needed for earlygame, I would have used her.

Setting aside that you're begging the question, you just changed the criteria from "important" to "needed". Sumia is not "needed", but nobody said that except you. She is undeniably important.

you're preaching to the wrong choir; it looks like there's only a handful of people that get what you're saying

There's also another handful that gets what he's saying, but think that it's a pretty banal/useless point. Certainly there's a framework where Sumia is the second best unit in the game. Is this framework useful for anything? Jury's still out.

You guys can pair up Sumia with Henry if you wish

but there's no reason to

if you wish

Breaking news: wanting to do something isn't a reason to do it.

[Chiki]

Just for people who don't understand the purpose of this thread, consider the tier list:

Grandmaster Of Disaster:
Avatar

S Tier:
Sully
Panne
Frederick
Stahl

Lucina (Avatar)

Chrom

A Tier:
Anna
Sumia

I'm saying Sumia should be above Sully in S tier. But this thread just doesn't apply to the tier list, but to people's opinions on hard mode efficiency in general.

And there are people who don't agree with me in this context:

In terms of efficient runs, I find Sully to actually be better than Sumia, Higher Strength growth results in Lucina getting better bases. Sumia isn't giving her anything in efficiency because Galeforce takes so long to get (I've only been able to get Rally Spectrum on Lucina once in all of my drafts (though Veteran>Rally Spectrum for inheritance). Lucina doesn't want to go Pegasus Knight because Parallel Falchion is incredible, so she either has Galeforce inherited to her or she never gets it in efficiency.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Chiki

[Anacybele]

Setting aside that you're begging the question, you just changed the criteria from "important" to "needed". Sumia is not "needed", but nobody said that except you. She is undeniably important.

You guys were sure acting like she was needed by saying she's so important when she isn't.

Just so you know Sumia isn't ranked based on your personal dislike of her, Anacybele. I am arguing that Sumia is good based on a hard mode efficiency context. Your personal opinion here is completely out of place.

I never said she was ranked based on my opinion of her. I just don't believe she's as good or useful as people say. Not that I think she's a terrible unit at all. She's definitely better than some other fragile units I've used in the past. But not the best unit ever in the game, if you ask me.

[Aethel]

Got no maths to back me up now, so my post will be mostly based on personal criteria. I've used Sumia in all my runs, and she's never dissapointed me. I don't expect her to be a flying general, so I found her defense flaw quite reasonable. Plus, the pair-up system and those fancy tonics cover up for that lack of defense, I'm no pro, and play mostly for the sake of completing the games on every difficulty (yet to clear Luna+ & DLCs), but I must say Sumia is a great unit in my book. Flying makes the difference in many chapters, plus access to Luna, the dreaded Galeforce... Made a fine Dark Flier in my runs (knight Sumia is OP at first).

As said before, got no maths, nor the experience in highest difficulty to talk, but I just wanted to cheer Sumia a little :D

I do find the character cute, but does not qualify to rate her, so never mind that.

[Vashiane]

Got no maths to back me up now, so my post will be mostly based on personal criteria. I've used Sumia in all my runs, and she's never dissapointed me. I don't expect her to be a flying general, so I found her defense flaw quite reasonable. Plus, the pair-up system and those fancy tonics cover up for that lack of defense, I'm no pro, and play mostly for the sake of completing the games on every difficulty (yet to clear Luna+ & DLCs), but I must say Sumia is a great unit in my book. Flying makes the difference in many chapters, plus access to Luna, the dreaded Galeforce... Made a fine Dark Flier in my runs (knight Sumia is OP at first).

As said before, got no maths, nor the experience in highest difficulty to talk, but I just wanted to cheer Sumia a little :D

I do find the character cute, but does not qualify to rate her, so never mind that.

That bolded quote doesn't need to be strike-throughed, that is a fact of life. Knight/General Sumia is a BAMF.

But nice post. :)

[darkkfan]

Sumia is very good, especially on the higher difficulties, but I'd hardly say she is better than everyone except Avatar no matter what difficulty you are playing on. I agree that Sumia is better than Sully, but I also think that Sumia vs. Cordelia would be a much better and more relevant debate. It would also be easier to gauge since less variables are involved.

And I love how Interceptor is pointing out all the flaws in your logic. Seriously, it's actually pretty funny, not to mention the fact that he's right!

Edited May 30, 2013 by Walhart

[Vashiane]

Sumia is very good, especially on the higher difficulties, but I'd hardly say she is better than everyone except Avatar no matter what difficulty you are playing on. I agree that Sumia is better than Sully, but I also think that Sumia vs. Cordelia would be a much better and more relevant debate. It would also be easier to gauge since less variables are involved.

Someone's doing a debate about this in the debate forum, I can't recall who...

[Chiki]

Sumia is very good, especially on the higher difficulties, but I'd hardly say she is better than everyone except Avatar no matter what difficulty you are playing on. I agree that Sumia is better than Sully, but I also think that Sumia vs. Cordelia would be a much better and more relevant debate. It would also be easier to gauge since less variables are involved.

Well.. Sumia's gonna be married to Frederick by the time she comes, so the debate doesn't even exist. She has superior availability, supports and stats overall by the time Cordelia comes.

[secondworld]

You guys were sure acting like she was needed by saying she's so important when she isn't.

People were stressing how important she is, no one said anything about her being needed, nor did they act like she was.

I believe you're jumping to conclusions.

[Anacybele]

People were stressing how important she is, no one said anything about her being needed, nor did they act like she was.

I believe you're jumping to conclusions.

If she's not needed for it at all, how is she as important for it as you say? That's what confuses me.

[Fairlee]

My first gameplay have Sumia became the best after avatar.

She's totally RNG bless. Her stat growth is awesome. It seems like she has invisible aptitude.

Without even much babying, with her speed, she's so easy to train in NM.

I did marry her with Chrom and she easily outclass Chrom.

For when pair up I prefer her as the main one.

Yes. I guess Sumia is underrated.

But is it really because she arrived weak?

Pretty sure some past FE characters arrived weak and they're not underrated at all.

Maybe too many dislike on her, I guess.

So many don't even bother to use her.

@Ana: she helps a lot in earlier chapter. So she's important.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Fairlee

[secondworld]

If she's not needed for it at all, how is she as important for it as you say? That's what confuses me.

You mean other than the fact that she contributes a lot more than many of your other units?

Saying she isn't needed isn't saying much when the same can be said about any other character on hard mode.

[Anacybele]

But when my other units contributed just as much without her around, that means diddly squat.

[Mighty Kamina]

Sumia is amazing if you can get her going, which is quite a bother on Lunatic as I found most of the enemies one shot her even with a Frederick pair up. Hell I find Virion easier to use than Sumia on higher difficulties.

Granted on Hard or Normal there is no real reason not to use her aside from personal preference.

[IfOnlyIHadAMemoryEraser]

If she's not needed for it at all, how is she as important for it as you say? That's what confuses me.

If you haven't done an efficient Hard mode playthrough at all, how can you be forming an argument about this? That's what confuses me.

[Anacybele]

If you haven't done an efficient Hard mode playthrough at all, how can you be forming an argument about this? That's what confuses me.

Firstly, I don't appreciate people mocking me. Second, I formed an argument because people seem to be saying I should be using Sumia in earlygame anyway even though I play normal mode.