Choose Your Own Character Anonymafia: D3 - Ends 6/15 at 0000 GMT-6

[Rain Nijika]

Basically, my mind connected Shinori (who I found scummy yesterday, yes he was Ovan, we all know this by now) and Suzaku and in my sleepdep mind, I didn't bother checking my notes to make sure I was talking about the right person.

To clarify:

People I would actually want to lynch today:

Joey followed by Szeth.

[No Elimination]

Keeping in mind that Suzaku had two votes on him during his Ovan vote, I think it's perfectly normal for scum!Suzaku to vote for Ovan based on flimsy reasoning. It's scummy, but that doesn't mean that scum wouldn't be doing it. He probably wanted Ovan to get hammered quickly before the frightening possibility that the players might go after him instead. Considering that Ovan flipped Town, that makes him even more suspicious to me

##Vote: Kururugi Suzaku

btw what is a neighbor?

[Olivier]

Hey guys. I was out camping over the weekend and I didn`t have enough time to let elie know.

I`ve got two pages of content to look back on, so give me a bit to look at them.

[Estelle]

Neighbour is a role that comes in twos. The two Neighbours can speak to each other outside of the thread as much as they want. They differ from Masons in that Masons are also confirmed town to each other, while one (or technically both, but lol) Neighbour can be mafia.

[Olivier]

@Flurrie- That... doesn't really answer the question? You don't need to be frustrated to threaten a self-hammer, but you implied that that was what was going on at the time he first made the threat. And then you said frustration wasn't a scumtell so. A self-hammer might be anti-town, but it can be done by frustrated town.

I`m not too sure what you were asking then. If the question is still pertinent, can you tell me what exactly you want to ask me.

Anyways, I guess my name`s popping up a bit today.

##Vote: Sazuku Kururugi or whatever it`s supposed to be

Gonna go back to my day 1 wagon on this guy.

On Day 1, I really felt bothered that he was trying too hard to get votes going because of the ``I go for the scummiest thing I can find``. I find this to be an excuse to hop from wagon to wagon without trying to attract a lot of attention to himself.

His vote history includes: SilentSwordsman (RVS) to Lekaant to Joey to Ovan where he parked until day`s end.

It`s worth noting that he abandoned his vote on Joey without any reasoning and became the fifth vote on Ovan without really explaining why: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40594&page=5#entry2433227

As for his votes on Leknaat:

Kind of serious. It's about the most suspicious thing that's happened so far, in my opinion.

Pretty much nothing. I hoped I could get some sort of reaction out of him at get the ball rolling, since we might end up stuck in RVS for a long time on account of there only being 9 players.

Leknaat's genuinely giving me bad vibes now, with the observation/hypothesis/conjecture thing looking like he's contributing a lot when he's really not. It kind of reminds me of something in an offsite game too. The guy he reminds me of was scum.

Really waffly here on his reasoning. He goes back and forth on his views on Leknaat, and yeah, it`s annoying.

and then there`s Joey vote.

Can you elaborate on your last part of your reply Ovan? I don't really understand what you're trying to say there.

Now I'm a little calmer, I feel better about Leknaat. Not completely at ease, but still a little better. His points on Ovan are definitely good ones, especially lining up lynches part, which sprang to my mind as well.

Also, I'm not really fond of Joey's last post. He jumped onto my wagon pretty quickly when it was building momentum, and a lot of the statements he made about me were very generalized. He says I misrepped the post, when really I didn't. I didn't think the vote was particularly valid at the time, or scummy. He's also been awol for 24 hours (albeit I think some have been gone longer) so he needs to get in here and give reads. Same with half of the game, sadly.

##Unvote

##Vote: Joey Wheeler

K cool. He explained why he stepped off of the Lekaant wagon. I can see how Joey`s vote on Sazuku looks like ``jumping on this wagon``, but I think a lot of it has to with putting Sazuku at L-1 and trying to divert attention from himself. idk, I might totally be missing what`s going on with this vote but that`s how I read it.

Also crumbing\claiming neighbor doesn`t exactly do him any good so I`m not too sure why he did it.

Would also like Tibarn to post more because I can`t get a solid read on him.

Szeth also seems to not be providing any of his own reads, just asks people for stuff from them. Can`t really get anything on this guy either.

[Estelle]

Kay, I see you making a post, so before you submit it, you should probably go onto Szeth your anon account.

MF, to me, it read like you were stating that when Ovan made his self-hammer threat, he was doing so from anger/frustration. But you also said that that's not a scumtell. Then why is the self-hammer threat so very anti-town to you, if you don't think the reasons behind it are a scumtell?

[Kamina]

I only have 10 minutes so I'll just address some things quickly

Hi guys, I'm active now, sorry for not being here most of Day 1. I couldn't talk on Night 1 so here I am. Anyways, I tried to skim through the thread and figure out what was going on. It was difficult to keep track of everything in such short time but the most suspicious player I found so far is Suzaku Kururugi. He started by complaining that he dislikes meta and later seems to have assumed a player identity based on liking .hack. I'm also not liking how he voted for Ovan without a strong reason but kept it there till the end. Anyhow, I'm gonna avoid voting based on Day 1 content since it's not easy to make a sound judgment from reading 150+ posts in just a few minutes. I should be able to follow Day 2 and onwards though.

btw can somebody please explain to me what a neighbor is?

I complain about meta, but I can't help but subconsciously make the links. And I don't see how this is scummy.

With the only other wagon being myself, why would I NOT vote for Ovan? If anything I would've tried to be as on the fence as possible if I was scum, rather than attacking him before phase end.

Keeping in mind that Suzaku had two votes on him during his Ovan vote, I think it's perfectly normal for scum!Suzaku to vote for Ovan based on flimsy reasoning. It's scummy, but that doesn't mean that scum wouldn't be doing it. He probably wanted Ovan to get hammered quickly before the frightening possibility that the players might go after him instead. Considering that Ovan flipped Town, that makes him even more suspicious to me

##Vote: Kururugi Suzaku

btw what is a neighbor?

Wishy washy, and I haven't got a clue what the hell you're trying to say here.

Look up for my answer to this one.

Don't like how Flurrie's not really trying to address the votes on them either.

Tibarn's reasons for voting me seem really weak, to be frank.

I'll start making a more comprehensive post in like, five hours. I should be back by then.

[Cú Chulainn]

My point there was the only thing you talked about with Szeth was their posting style. Nothing more. Your "read" was a non-existent one and kind of just handwaved their existence. My point with the Ovan/R2D2 thing was that you were seeming to make connections there without a flip to help strengthen those chains.

My point about his post style backed up my null read – it wasn't irrelevant. Asking a lot of questions without content posts is considered scummy to most people, so I wanted to explain why I thought he was still a null read. I did clarify “null read” explicitly in my next post, so I think this is grasping.

I don't like your criticism of my Ovan/R2D2 concept. One of the central game elements is trying to deduce other people's motivations. I have several theories at any one time; if I get information that leads me in one direction, I'll become more confident in that theory. I admitted it was just a far-fetched idea at the time, so the "jumps in reasoning” criticism is a misrep.

See now, that's fence sitting. "I think this, but I could maybe be wrong." Also, I'm not 100% sure what you meant with the next bit? Even if I was scorri, I'm not aware of scorri being known for being hyper-sensitive, so I'm not even sure why you included that part since it's an attempt at meta in an anon game.

On the contrary, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I.e., “I think this, but I want to hear more from him first.” You weren't much of a presence D1; I only knew three of your reads. Since your biggest scumread was me, I thought my read on you might be biased. Regarding Scorri, I meant “hyper-sensitive” as in “very sensitive to minutiae.” She's a veteran player, so I thought a town!Scorri could be consistently misjudging me. Now that I know your other reads, and that you want to lynch an inactive, this would be a pretty big oversight.

Stuff from yesterday combined with the fence sitting on me while voting MF for similar things.

I haven't voted MF; that's a misrep.

I also sort of dislike how yesterday when you thought Ovan was scum, you said the interactions looked like bussing, and now that you know he's town you say that the interactions look like town/scum.

I haven't said their interactions look like town/scum. Now that Ovan is confirmed town, I just take his posts more seriously (i.e., like someone without ulterior/scummy motives). I think the point about him being frustrated and looking for outs is a good one, but my suspicions of R2D2 weren't based on his post. My R2D2 read has been growing for awhile, and that made it a little worse.

Sort of feels to me as if you already kind of think that R2D2 is scum and you're just interpreting things in whichever way will further that. It's not scummy exactly, just not good play IMO.

Nope. At the time of my last post, I didn't have a solid opinion on R2D2. I thought I might be biased, since I was his top scumread. I got flak from R2D2 for not taking a strong enough stance on him.

Yikes. Us Brooklyn boys need to get to bed. My primary scumreads are MF and Suzaku right now, followed by R2D2. I think his case on me is pretty weak (as I've already explained), and wanting to lynch Szeth, who's been inactive for almost two days, is a huge red flag in my book. I don't like his waffly townread on MF (i.e. able to see the fence-sitting criticism, but doesn't really agree with it). My priority order right now is MF > Suzaku > R2D2. I'd still like to hear more from Szeth and Tibarn, so I don't want to put MF or Suzaku at L-1 yet. In the meantime,

##Vote: R2D2

[Estelle]

Okay, you're right, you didn't say that it was the interactions between the two you find scummy. My apologies for that. However, still feels like you're interpreting things in a certain way only. For example, if you yourself admit that your theory was a bit far-fetched, how is it a misrepresentation to say there was a jump in reasoning there? That's how most far-fetched theories occur- jumps in reasoning.

Also, R2D2's arguments against Szeth didn't have to do with her being inactive. The argument was separate from that. I don't think it's scummy to be suspicious of an inactive person or want to lynch them, as long as you don't find them suspicious BECAUSE they're inactive. For example, people found Rein and Rapier scummy in C9++ even though they were inactive after D1, for reasons other than inactivity, and they were right.

Joey vs R2D2 feels like town infighting to me. >_> The arguments on both sides seem sort of weak. Personally, I don't really want to lynch Suzaku, R2D2, or Joey. I think the scum are more likely to be between MF, Szeth, and Tibarn.

[Rain Nijika]

Beepbloopblorp

I admitted it was just a far-fetched idea at the time, so the "jumps in reasoning” criticism is a misrep.

Point me to where I said that and then we can talk.

Sorry, should've read same reasons you've said you'd vote MF. Flipped who'd voted in my head, I'll be more careful next time, wasn't trying to misrep. The point still stands though. What you did was basically what everyone's getting on MF's case for. Why isn't it scummy when you do it? MF said that they'd vote for Ovan but that they didn't want to put them at L-1 and thought they were scum but allowed them plenty of ways to back out. Isn't that exactly what your post did? Here let me show you:

[quoteI do think R2D2's been laying low; I've seen him browse the thread several times today without popping in, which makes me uncomfortable. It sounds like he's busy irl, so I can let it slide.

This thing seems scummy but he has an excuse so maybe it's ok after all.

I'm leaning scum, but I'm keeping an open mind. I think this could be Scorri being hyper-sensitive, so I'd like to hear his/her reads on SS, Szeth, and MF.

You're thinking scum, but you'll keep an open mind so that you can change my mind later on. Also then you tried to guess who I am so that you can use meta but then later if you're proven wrong you could just claim wrong meta.

In that post alone there were three different ways that you could have used later to back off your view of me as scum. How is that any different than what MF is being accused of? Why isn't it scummy when you do it?

[Kamina]

Votals

(2) Madam Flurrie: Silent Swordsman, Suzaku Kururugi

(2) Suzaku Kururugi: Tibarn, Madam Flurrie

(1) Joey: Wheeler: R2D2

(1) R2D2: Joey Wheeler

Voteless: Szeth

We have 36 hours or something to make this work.

Gonna go and reread.

[Elieson]

V-V-V-Votals!

---

---

Madam Flurrie (2): Silent Swordsman LV?, Suzaku Kururugi,
Suzaku Kururugi (2): Tibarn., Madam Flurrie
R2D2 (1): Joey Wheeler

Joey Wheeler (1): R2D2

Voteless Trash: Szeth

36 Hours (and 10 minutes) remain in phase. Suzaku Kururugi and Madam Flurrie are at L-2. 4 votes will hammer. Remember the rules, no hammer = no lynch.

P.Edit: Thank you Suzaku ;|

---Also because I have been asked by 2 players now, MYLO/LYLO/Potential MYLO/Potential LYLO will not be announced---

Edited June 10, 2013 by Elieson

[Kamina]

BEFORE I START MY REREAD opening flavor pretty much says 2 scum and 3 scum in 9p is kinda nuts anyway

but it says it is announced in the op so you might wanna change that

[Estelle]

I guess things like a Doctor having the ability to save someone might make something Potential MYLO/LYLO as opposed to just MYLO/LYLO.

Suzaku, I repeat my question. What caused your opinion on Joey to change? You found him scummy yesterday and then just switched to Ovan. And now today, you've made no attempt to follow up on Joey.

R2D2 brings up a pretty good point against Joey actually. >_>

[Elieson]

Szeth has been Prodded (1).

[Refakitty³]

I complain about meta, but I can't help but subconsciously make the links. And I don't see how this is scummy.

This argument of yours bothers me more than the actual player guesses. Subconsciously, unintentionally making those links =/= talking about them. I don't think it's particularly scummy either, unless it looked like you were discussing player identities to seem active, but your reaction seems silly.

On Day 1, I really felt bothered that he was trying too hard to get votes going because of the ``I go for the scummiest thing I can find``. I find this to be an excuse to hop from wagon to wagon without trying to attract a lot of attention to himself.

His vote history includes: SilentSwordsman (RVS) to Lekaant to Joey to Ovan where he parked until day`s end.

It`s worth noting that he abandoned his vote on Joey without any reasoning and became the fifth vote on Ovan without really explaining why: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40594&page=5#entry2433227

Szeth also seems to not be providing any of his own reads, just asks people for stuff from them. Can`t really get anything on this guy either.

The reasoning here seems a bit weird, can you clarify?

The Ovan vote looks more like Not Me Over Me than anything else. Suzaku, is this assumption correct?

Well yeah, I'm not saying "so-and-so is scum" explicitly a lot, but considering that people are talking about me attacking them, I think it's generally clear from my posts when I'm suspicious of people. Or are you just saying I don't have enough reads?

##Vote: Suzaku Kururugi because nothing has changed this sufficiently since D1 and I don't think Flurrie is scum.

[Estelle]

Szeth, can you give reasoning for why MF isn't scummy, according to you? You question his reasoning as weird and then pretty much just handwave the case against him for no particular reason.

[No Elimination]

##Unvote: Suzaku Kururugi

I still want him lynched, but not so early so I want to prevent a quickhammer.

[Estelle]

Tibarn, what are your opinions on other people in the thread? Have you had a time to read the thread properly?

[Kamina]

Just woke up, reread isn't done but

Suzaku, I repeat my question. What caused your opinion on Joey to change? You found him scummy yesterday and then just switched to Ovan. And now today, you've made no attempt to follow up on Joey.

I'm not really sure on Joey anymore, and better cases have presented themselves anyway (namely all of MF, Tibarn and Szeth.) I dunno, I just don't feel the same way looking at his posts anymore, and there are way better cases to push at the moment.

Looking back at Szeth's ISO, I REALLY don't like it. The first post in an RVS vote, fair enough, but then the next is basically massively padded. While it looks like they're saying a lot about me, they're not, and the second point against me was a misrep. He then calls out Silent for "tunneling like a boss" (no really where did that come from) even though he really hasn't been. The third post is just a one liner calling Silent's reaction "interesting", without divulging why. Helpful.

Moving along and ignoring the failpost, I pretty much covered that post's content already, but Szeth just comes in out of nowhere to pull one of my posts to pieces rather than giving actual reads, which I don't like. This next post is more focusing on me, it's pretty much tunneling at this point, with a question thrown in at the end about Silent's Joey read (you haven't given one either you know.) Szeth's also being distancing himself from Ovan pretty hard, as there's only been one mention of him besides his last post of day 1. And the last post? I'm gonna get on that now.

This argument of yours bothers me more than the actual player guesses. Subconsciously, unintentionally making those links =/= talking about them. I don't think it's particularly scummy either, unless it looked like you were discussing player identities to seem active, but your reaction seems silly.

The Ovan vote looks more like Not Me Over Me than anything else. Suzaku, is this assumption correct?

Well yeah, I'm not saying "so-and-so is scum" explicitly a lot, but considering that people are talking about me attacking them, I think it's generally clear from my posts when I'm suspicious of people. Or are you just saying I don't have enough reads?

##Vote: Suzaku Kururugi because nothing has changed this sufficiently since D1 and I don't think Flurrie is scum.

How is this a scumtell? It was pretty much an afterthought anyway, and you said you were sure it was Shinori yourself here.

...Are you even reading my posts Szeth? I'm pretty sure I've justified this thing by now, and this thing really isn't helping how I'm reading you.

The only real people you've attacked are Ovan (like, twice, and not even committed to the lynch), Silent Swordsman (only earlier in the game) and me (pretty much tunneling). So by that logic, you have a total of two reads on living players? Wonderful.

And this goes to further my suspicion that you're not even reading my posts. You just say "nothing's changed", not siting any reasoning or even giving a reason why, and just handwave the case on Flurrie that I made here.

There's no time for a Szeth wagon to build today, but I know where my vote's going tomorrow for sure. If I get lynched, you all have my blessings to sheep the fuck out of this case.

[Kamina]

Also Tibarn get back in here you

[Refakitty³]

Just woke up, reread isn't done but

I'm not really sure on Joey anymore, and better cases have presented themselves anyway (namely all of MF, Tibarn and Szeth.) I dunno, I just don't feel the same way looking at his posts anymore, and there are way better cases to push at the moment.

Looking back at Szeth's ISO, I REALLY don't like it. The first post in an RVS vote, fair enough, but then the next is basically massively padded. While it looks like they're saying a lot about me, they're not, and the second point against me was a misrep. He then calls out Silent for "tunneling like a boss" (no really where did that come from) even though he really hasn't been. The third post is just a one liner calling Silent's reaction "interesting", without divulging why. Helpful.

Moving along and ignoring the failpost, I pretty much covered that post's content already, but Szeth just comes in out of nowhere to pull one of my posts to pieces rather than giving actual reads, which I don't like. This next post is more focusing on me, it's pretty much tunneling at this point, with a question thrown in at the end about Silent's Joey read (you haven't given one either you know.) Szeth's also being distancing himself from Ovan pretty hard, as there's only been one mention of him besides his last post of day 1. And the last post? I'm gonna get on that now.

How is this a scumtell? It was pretty much an afterthought anyway, and you said you were sure it was Shinori yourself here.

...Are you even reading my posts Szeth? I'm pretty sure I've justified this thing by now, and this thing really isn't helping how I'm reading you.

The only real people you've attacked are Ovan (like, twice, and not even committed to the lynch), Silent Swordsman (only earlier in the game) and me (pretty much tunneling). So by that logic, you have a total of two reads on living players? Wonderful.

And this goes to further my suspicion that you're not even reading my posts. You just say "nothing's changed", not siting any reasoning or even giving a reason why, and just handwave the case on Flurrie that I made here.

There's no time for a Szeth wagon to build today, but I know where my vote's going tomorrow for sure. If I get lynched, you all have my blessings to sheep the fuck out of this case.

Can you explain your Tibarn case?

Explain how my second point against you was a misrep. I don't recall you clarifying this.

I thought it was clear enough that I didn't like SS's reaction because it seemed like he was simplifying my argument against him and using it to attack me with little basis.

What would you consider "actual reads"? I would think pulling someone's post to pieces is, again, generally a reasonable indication of what kind of read one has on them. I knew I had no Joey read but the way he said he didn't understand the wagon, I wanted him to comment on what he actually thought of Joey even if it was just to say he had a nullread as well.

I said pretty clearly that it wasn't you making player guesses that was scummy. It was the way you made it sound like you were doing it totally involuntarily, which is silly.

Something like that, yeah. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Um, I don't see how I'm tunneling on you, attacking you constantly, and then I haven't explained at all why I suspect you. And yeah, I read your case on Flurrie. What do you want me to say about it?

Eh, seems like a reasonable amount of time for a wagon to me, considering that no one's at more than L2 and several people have expressed suspicion of me. I think you don't want to unnecessarily tie yourself to a mislynch.

[Elieson]

Derp

Edited June 11, 2013 by Elieson

[Cú Chulainn]

A lot has gone on so far in D2, and I want to update my reads. I'll try to whip something up later tonight or tomorrow (probably tomorrow at this rate). A few people beside R2D2 have asked me questions, so I'll respond to them too.

@R2D2: For starters, I think it's weird that your reply was almost entirely to my last R2D2 null read post, and not my response (where I updated the read). You stopped your analysis at this post, and it seems like you're trying to paint that null read as a waffly fence-sit.

Point me to where I said that and then we can talk.

Beside clarifying the misrep, this sentence was your only reply to my last post. I don't like that the one thing that piqued your interest was something semantic. If you want a quote, your words were “You were seeming to make connections there without a flip to help strengthen those chains.” I interpreted this as “You made jumps in reasoning without conclusive proof.”

This thing seems scummy but he has an excuse so maybe it's ok after all.

Nope. As I said earlier, I didn't have a clear read on you. You weren't around much D1. I still wanted to hear where you stood on MF, SS, and Szeth. I asked the same thing of Szeth. This isn't a waffle. MF's stance on Ovan was “Eh, I can see both sides.” Mine was “Hey, you haven't been around. I'd like to know your reads.”

You're thinking scum, but you'll keep an open mind so that you can change my mind later on. Also then you tried to guess who I am so that you can use meta but then later if you're proven wrong you could just claim wrong meta.

Those are baseless claims. I was at a null read because I didn't know how you felt about half the game. You were almost as much of a non-entity as Szeth. The only lynch you pushed was me, and I thought I could be biased. In terms of my meta, I didn't use that comment to push your lynch. I thought you might be a town!Scorri being overtly cautious. At the time of this post you're stuck on, I still had a null read on you.

[Rain Nijika]

Right. That was my point. My point was you were doing exactly what you were getting suspicious of MF for. You were saying all these things that made it seem like I was scummy, but not actually pushing it. Instead, you were saying that you still had a null read. That is fence sitting, plain and simple. You're pointing out all these things that you were implying were scummy, but then not actually committing to a read.