SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[solrocknroll]

The theory that a Mii costume outrights deconfirms a character has no solid ground whatsoever. Sakurai has broken so many rules that the fandom thought were gospel before that nothing is written in stone anymore.

Do you actually believe this or do you just have Inkling bias?

Because there's zero chance that Inklings will be DLC.

[Anacybele]

Hey, do you have to be that harsh? Jave IS technically right. His favorite characters have nothing to do with anything.

[Ercdouken]

Smash Fandom: Let's make up rules that totally exist and will totally not be broken!

[solrocknroll]

Hey, do you have to be that harsh? Jave IS technically right. His favorite characters have nothing to do with anything.

I know, but unlike the rule of only two FE characters, which Roy was planned for Brawl so I don't know why that was even a rule or rule of only one character per third party, which was a mistranslation, this isn't a pattern so much as good business practice. I don't think Nintendo's scummy enough yet to do something like this, unlike Capcom. It's be unfair to those who bought the costume if K. Rool came right behind it

also I dislike k Rool so hopefully it'll stick to this rule

Edited October 3, 2015 by Franziska von Karma

[Anacybele]

Yeah, it would be kind of unfair, which is why I believe he's probably deconfirmed. But I'm not going to say something is fact when it hasn't come out of Sakurai's own mouth or the game itself.

I don't like K. Rool either though, so I do hope this raises Dixie Kong's chances over his. She hasn't been given a costume! DIXIE PLZ, SAKURAI!

Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele

[solrocknroll]

Yeah, it would be kind of unfair, which is why I believe he's probably deconfirmed. But I'm not going to say something is fact when it hasn't come out of Sakurai's own mouth or the game itself.

I don't like K. Rool either though, so I do hope this raises Dixie Kong's chances over his. She hasn't been given a costume! DIXIE PLZ, SAKURAI!

Dixie is <3

Although chibi-Robo and bandana Dee are <3est

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Wait a minute...

Do you actually believe this or do you just have Inkling bias?

also I dislike k Rool so hopefully it'll stick to this rule

Isn't...that...bias...?

ANYWAY I'm fine with both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool, I'd actually like both. But I highly doubt we're getting both, if either at all. I want K. Rool slightly more just because another heavyweight character and villain would be good, and I honestly think he'd have a more diverse set of moves. I mean...how many costumes and themes does he have in the DKC games again?

[Anacybele]

Dixie Kong is female though, and one that isn't a human (Jigglypuff is certainly female too in the game, but it can be male where it originates). Smash also lacks those. Either way though, her OR K. Rool would be a sorta unique addition.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Females:

Samus/Zero Suit Samus

Peach

Zelda/Sheik

Rosalina

Palutena

Lucina

Jigglypuff

Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Robin can also be female.

Villains:

Bowser

Bowser Jr.

Ganondorf

King Dedede

Meta Knight

Wario

Dark Pit

Some of them may not even be considered villains!

I don't think Smash is lacking in the female department, and even if it is...there are still more females than villains.

[Anacybele]

There's still a much smaller number of females than males. And almost no females that aren't human.

[IceBrand]

Has anyone here mentioned the extremely broken Diddy Kong glitch?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Having an even male-to-female ratio is really not important, at all. I think a hero-to-villain ratio, on the other hand, is much more important. What good is a fighting game like Smash Bros. if you can't use Bowser to beat up Mario for once or Ganondorf to smack the crap outta Zelda every now and then? A lot of female characters already get spotlights, Peach got her own game Samus has her own series people wanna give Zelda her own game...what about villains? Smash Bros. is pretty much the only game where people can play as Nintendo villains!

Edited October 3, 2015 by Fire Emblem Fan

[Anacybele]

Bowser and Ganondorf ARE in the game though, and I don't think there are as many notable villains as there are protagonists. It's easier to pick more females than villains, imo.

Also, Smash isn't the only game where Nintendo villains are playable. Bowser is playable in SMRPG and Super Paper Mario. Ganondorf is playable in HW. Black Knight is playable in FE: RD. Ashnard can also be used in the PoR trial maps. Dedede is playable in Kirby and the Crystal Shards (I got to use him to hammer stuff while Kirby was on his back). Wario is playable in a lot of games. And so on.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele

[Kiseki]

Has anyone here mentioned the extremely broken Diddy Kong glitch?

You mean this one?

Diddy is broken now. Literally.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlcYmSAb2w

[Fire Emblem Fan]

That is true, it probably is easier to pick females. But there are still several notable villains! King K. Rool and Vaati come to mind, and with the resurgence of Kid Icarus I'd say Medusa and Hades are pretty notable too.

[Jave]

Females:

Samus/Zero Suit Samus

Peach

Zelda/Sheik

Rosalina

Palutena

Lucina

Jigglypuff

Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Robin can also be female.

To add to this, only one of those (Samus) is the sole protagonist of her own series.

It's one of the many reasons I support Shantae.

[Florete]

I honestly don't see the reasoning here, I really don't. I don't think it matters to Sakurai if a character was already in the base game, and I really don't think it matters to him if they're both a fully fledged DLC character and have a Mii costume.

Why would Sakurai add a costume of a character if he had any plans to make that character a fighter later on? It doesn't make sense. Around the time the game released he talked about the "DLC scare" and not wanting fans to feel like content was cut from the game to be sold separately. This is a little different, but it's the same sentiment.

If the K. Rool costume was in the base game, I would consider it to mean nothing. But it was DLC released 4 months into the ballot's life span.

The theory that a Mii costume outrights deconfirms a character has no solid ground whatsoever. Sakurai has broken so many rules that the fandom thought were gospel before that nothing is written in stone anymore.

In this case, Sakurai has made several costumes for characters already on the roster, and then costumes for a bunch of characters who aren't. Yet none of these characters have been made actual playable characters. So it's not as farfetched to think that a costume probably deconfirms a character. You're right, it's not a definitely deconfirmation until Sakurai himself says it, but still.

I don't usually agree so well with Ana, but: what she said^.

Besides, this is a "rule" that, as far as I know, has only ever been "broken" once, and back in Brawl. That "rule" being that newcomers aren't shown in some role that is not playable before being revealed as playable. And that situation being R.O.B. shown as a Subspace enemy before we knew he was playable. But one situation from a previous game doesn't mean the entire idea is shot, so until we see a costume become a full-fledged fighter, I choose to believe it means they aren't coming.

I don't think Smash is lacking in the female department, and even if it is...there are still more females than villains.

The problem with this comparison is that villains do not represent half of the world's population, nor are they a demographic that is typically given the short stick in video games.

Having an even male-to-female ratio is really not important, at all. I think a hero-to-villain ratio, on the other hand, is much more important.

You have a very narrow and biased worldview if you honestly believe this.

I don't think Smash desperately needs a 1:1 male:female ratio, but it could certainly be better than it is now, and the idea that villain representation matters more than female representation is absurd and, frankly, kind of offensive.

I also haven't a clue as to why this comparison was made in the first place. What bearing does the amount of female fighters have on the amount of villains?

[Jave]

One could argue that characters added as Mii costumes are added to test the waters on those characters and see if they're worth of being added as characters.

[Knife]

Am I the only one who doesn't want newgen characters? Save some for Smash 5 please.

[Florete]

One could argue that characters added as Mii costumes are added to test the waters on those characters and see if they're worth of being added as characters.

One could also argue that Sakurai's own words suggest otherwise.

One could also argue that the ballot was made for that purpose.

One could also argue that such arguments are grasping at straws.

Plenty of these justifications have been attempted. None are very convincing. The fact that the people who make these arguments are typically a big fan of a character who was costumed doesn't help.

[solrocknroll]

While Dark Pit, Dedede, and Meta Knight are not villains, I couldn't really care about villains. Many Nintendo IPs have no characters, and if that means a ton of main protagonists or deuteronigists, I'd be fine with that.

[Jave]

One could also argue that Sakurai's own words suggest otherwise.

One could also argue that the ballot was made for that purpose.

One could also argue that such arguments are grasping at straws.

Plenty of these justifications have been attempted. None are very convincing. The fact that the people who make these arguments are typically a big fan of a character who was costumed doesn't help.

Well, it's hard to make a convincing argument against a theory that has no basis whatsoever.

[Florete]

Well, it's hard to make a convincing argument against a theory that has no basis whatsoever.

...The theory has basis in logic. You really are grasping at straws now.

If what I've already noted isn't enough, realize that Inklings and K. Rool are not the only DLC costumes. Some of these DLC costumes, such as Chrom and Heihachi, are of characters Sakurai specifically talked about and noted how he ultimately chose not to make them playable. No one thinks these characters are going to become playable, so why are Inklings and K. Rool any different?

Because people want them. At the end of the day, that's all it comes down to: people want them enough, so they choose to believe the costumes don't mean anything.

There is reasoning based on physical evidence to believe these characters aren't coming. There is no such reasoning to believe they are coming.

[Jave]

...The theory has basis in logic. You really are grasping at straws now.

If what I've already noted isn't enough, realize that Inklings and K. Rool are not the only DLC costumes. Some of these DLC costumes, such as Chrom and Heihachi, are of characters Sakurai specifically talked about and noted how he ultimately chose not to make them playable. No one thinks these characters are going to become playable, so why are Inklings and K. Rool any different?

Because people want them. At the end of the day, that's all it comes down to: people want them enough, so they choose to believe the costumes don't mean anything.

There is reasoning based on physical evidence to believe these characters aren't coming. There is no such reasoning to believe they are coming.

No, in case you haven't noticed, Chrom is different because unlike Inklings and K. Rool, Sakurai has openly stated that Chrom isn't happening because he considered him but eventually decided to go with a more unique FE rep (Robin). He has said nothing of the sort for other Mii costume characters (outside Heihachi, I think), as the only other characters Sakurai has outright deconfirmed are Ridley and the Ice Climbers.

Also, in the specific case of Inklings, recall the nature of their Mii costume reveal. They were revealed in the Splatoon direct, shortly before the release of their game, around a month after the Smash ballot itself began, so why would Sakurai shoot down a popular ballot pick so early, when there were still tons of ballot votes to be considered? THAT is what makes no sense. It's not hard to assume that the Inkling Mii costume was more of a promotional thing than anything else, and it means very little (if anything) in the sense of Smash DLC.

It also needs to be noted we haven't gotten any actual DLC characters yet. Sakurai stated Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy and Ryu were all made pre-ballot, so there was no ballot influence on them in any way. This is why I don't think the "There's no precedent in DLC Mii costumes being added later as DLC characters" argument is in any way valid. Sakurai has given us nothing so we can either make the argument or counter it.

And for the record, I don't believe that any Mii costume character will necessarily make it in. I'm just saying that anything involving Mii costumes and Characters is a kind of gray area that we shouldn't really be reaching any conclusions about. Could they not happen? Sure. But could they happen? Sure.

[Jotari]

No, in case you haven't noticed, Chrom is different because unlike Inklings and K. Rool, Sakurai has openly stated that Chrom isn't happening because he considered him but eventually decided to go with a more unique FE rep (Robin). He has said nothing of the sort for other Mii costume characters (outside Heihachi, I think), as the only other characters Sakurai has outright deconfirmed are Ridley and the Ice Climbers.

Also, in the specific case of Inklings, recall the nature of their Mii costume reveal. They were revealed in the Splatoon direct, shortly before the release of their game, around a month after the Smash ballot itself began, so why would Sakurai shoot down a popular ballot pick so early, when there were still tons of ballot votes to be considered? THAT is what makes no sense. It's not hard to assume that the Inkling Mii costume was more of a promotional thing than anything else, and it means very little (if anything) in the sense of Smash DLC.

It also needs to be noted we haven't gotten any actual DLC characters yet. Sakurai stated Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy and Ryu were all made pre-ballot, so there was no ballot influence on them in any way. This is why I don't think the "There's no precedent in DLC Mii costumes being added later as DLC characters" argument is in any way valid. Sakurai has given us nothing so we can either make the argument or counter it.

And for the record, I don't believe that any Mii costume character will necessarily make it in. I'm just saying that anything involving Mii costumes and Characters is a kind of gray area that we shouldn't really be reaching any conclusions about. Could they not happen? Sure. But could they happen? Sure.

Hear! Hear! Reasonable uncertainty, a principal in which I live my life.