The Outrealms is one big Deus EX Machina.

[Phoenix Wright]

Definitely not stating fact because deus ex machina is a plot device.

well yeah, but the fact that the phrase is being used at all in this context is broadening its meaning anyway. so i feel like, again only in this context, it can just be a "fact" that the outrealm comes out of nowhere to solve problems aka the basic idea behind deus ex machina.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Phoenix Wright

[Sorin]

The Outrealms are cool because fanfiction can make it do anything.

[amadeuscho]

well yeah, but the fact that the phrase is being used at all in this context is broadening its meaning anyway. so i feel like, again only in this context, it can just be a "fact" that the outrealm comes out of nowhere to solve problems aka the basic idea behind deus ex machina.

as stated above, screw the rules, I have money better fits this context. Or better yet, bribing your way to victory.

Since it's latin, you can't just broaden it's meaning. It has a specific meaning in it. It just means "god out of the machine," which in itself doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. The meaning only makes sense in the context of literature.

I don't have a problem with the DLC. I was contently playing HMode without DLC. I got the golden pack because I couldnt beat Lunatic. But It was entirely my choice. I didn't buy any of the other DLC other than future past, which was well worth the money.

DLC is a part of gaming now. As much as I hated it before, it just is. We just have to hope our creators five us good, complete stories without DLC (like Nintendo) and not locking things purely for the sake of DLC (as with Capcom and SF X T). DLC should start development after the game is released anyways.

[WyvernSurfer]

I'm not really complaining about DLC, i'm stating that every and all problems can be solved with the outrealms.

IIRC None of the characters in the main story canonically even mention, let alone use, the Outrealms so that's a moot point.

Edited September 8, 2013 by WyvernSurfer

[CT075]

i think walhart and yen'fay are the only characters, who, in the POSTGAME (which doesn't make sense anyway... "OK WE'RE ABOUT TO GO WARP ONTO GRIMA'S BACK except no let's go search for some hidden mountain village to get this hypothetical descendant of a legendary hero") even mention the outrealms

and honestly i managed to beat the entirety of lunatic and then future past without actually using any of the other dlc so people complaining that it's required to bribe your own way to victory are just bad at FE

[Phoenix Wright]

Since it's latin, you can't just broaden it's meaning. It has a specific meaning in it. It just means "god out of the machine," which in itself doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. The meaning only makes sense in the context of literature.

I don't have a problem with the DLC. I was contently playing HMode without DLC. I got the golden pack because I couldnt beat Lunatic. But It was entirely my choice. I didn't buy any of the other DLC other than future past, which was well worth the money.

DLC is a part of gaming now. As much as I hated it before, it just is. We just have to hope our creators five us good, complete stories without DLC (like Nintendo) and not locking things purely for the sake of DLC (as with Capcom and SF X T). DLC should start development after the game is released anyways.

I don't want to get too far into this, but every word in existence has a specific meaning wherein the meanings can be broadened. Myriad is most often used to substitute "a lot." If people still spoke Latin, people wouldn't follow its rules to a "T." The fact that the phrase was used and we all understood what he meant proves, at least a little bit, that the meaning can be broadened when its not used in an academic setting.

DLC isn't even plot-based, anyway. So even in its basic form the phrase was not the wisest choice of words for this topic, yet we all know what OP meant.

And yeah those other two phrases are better, I agree. All I'm trying to say is the use of the phrase deus ex machina is validated and viable, not that it's the perfect phrase to use.

[amadeuscho]

I don't want to get too far into this, but every word in existence has a specific meaning wherein the meanings can be broadened. Myriad is most often used to substitute "a lot." If people still spoke Latin, people wouldn't follow its rules to a "T." The fact that the phrase was used and we all understood what he meant proves, at least a little bit, that the meaning can be broadened when its not used in an academic setting.

DLC isn't even plot-based, anyway. So even in its basic form the phrase was not the wisest choice of words for this topic, yet we all know what OP meant.

And yeah those other two phrases are better, I agree. All I'm trying to say is the use of the phrase deus ex machina is validated and viable, not that it's the perfect phrase to use.

the difference being between a word (myriad), and a literary device. Words can have varying definitions and can change due to our understanding, but a device is more static because it's supposed to apply to a particular context,

Yes, we all understood it. But that doesn't mean it's viable, because of what deus ex machina actually means. It's not even Deus Ex Machina because there is proof that individuals can beat conditions of Lunatic or any difficulty level without using Lunatic. Hence the concept that the deus ex machina must solve the "unsolvable problem." The problem is however solvable with the right tactics. Not to mention using DLC isn't sudden either. It's available to you from chapter 5 on and can be accessed any time before a chapter, with your own choosing. So it fails also with the definition of deus ex machina even if you extended beyond deus ex machina solely referring to plot. Calling outrealms a deus ex machina would require a complete change in the definition of deus ex machina; not just the context, but also that actual make up of the definition.

Which is why DLC is optional. People can beat the game without it, and some never use it. Some even beat the hardest difficulties without it. So therefore, it's not deus ex machina.

[Phoenix Wright]

~snip~

I agree. To clarify what I'm trying to say:

"I couldn't care less," and "I could care less" are both accepted ways to express that you could not care less. The latter is obviously wrong, but by the magic of language, both have become acceptable phrases generally speaking.

It's the same here. The use of the phrase/plot device "Deus ex Machina" is clearly incorrect here, but because language is dynamic, it's accepted. Yes, plot devices are supposed to be more static, but in a non-academic setting, it really doesn't matter.

[amadeuscho]

Yeah. I'm just stating also that I disagree with the OP as well.

DLC is a part of gaming now. You can complain about it, but its better to just support the DLC that is done right, or that you prefer. If you don't like DLC, don't buy DLC.

The inclusion of Yen'fay via spotpass actually might be Deus Ex Machina now that I think about it. But complaining about the other DLC stuff is really pointless.

[Phoenix Wright]

iirc i don't think anyone was really complaining about the dlc, right? i like most of the dlc. i'd like to see less of it, though.

[Thor Odinson]

I got the dlc exclusively for the postgame because I feel FE is piss easy as is no need to grind to make it easier (though I still have to do my L+ Nogrind run, let's see if I can do it with my standard build and no magic users and not a MU cheesesolo as usual)

So really whatever makes IS enough money to give us more FEs I'm cool with. If people want to grind for whatever reasons, that's their right to. It's there as an option. As long as the game's beatable on all difficulties without the use of it, it's fair. Don't want pay-to-win.

I do think they could've put all the improved characterisations from scramble/future past into the supports, though, instead of having the supports be one big repetitive shitty mess (for the most part) to start with.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Ezio Auditore da Firenze

[VincentASM]

I do think they could've put all the improved characterisations from scramble/future past into the supports, though, instead of having the supports be one big repetitive shitty mess (for the most part) to start with.

That's a lot of work though (as in there's LOADS of supports already) and you also have to consider that they were probably building a new engine and potentially only had this one last game to save the franchise, while on a deadline.

The Scramble/Future stuff probably wasn't even considered until they started making the first series of DLC, which itself wasn't considered until the very end of production.

Edited September 8, 2013 by VincentASM