After playing Awakening, I can no longer play any of the previous Fire Emblems.

[RJWalker]

Tibarn's actions stand out even though they were already enemies. And lol @ saying FE games don't have that much grey morality.

[The Void]

And again, Tibarn and Micaiah were enemies at the time. FE Lords aren't required to cry themselves to sleep or yell at their soldiers every time they or somebody in their army kills some guy or gal in the opposing army.

And no, they really don't have that much. You know who is a good boy and who is a puppy kicker in various FE games even with characters like Camus being around.

In RD, Jarod and his army was cartoonishly evil, most of the Senators were cartoonishly evil, the playable characters from Begnion weren't, Levail and other soldiers are just following orders, various members of Team Ashera aren't from Begnion. That's not what I would call a good track record.

Edited September 29, 2013 by The Void

[General Banzai]

In RD, Jarod and his army was cartoonishly evil

oh, but this is so wrong

[The Void]

Because killing your soldiers is the actions of a man who isn't cartoonishly evil and is filled with redeeming qualities in a video game.

Can you tell me what doing that was shown to have accomplished?

[Nobody]

I don't know why people complain about flames on the blue. Like, what was the avatar supposed to do? Let the enemy army arrive and conquer the continent? It's WAR people, he should do whatever it takes to save his country. He saved Yllisse, of course the ylisseans are going to praise him.

Every lord in fire emblem decimated hundred of thousands, if not million of people at war and were praised for their actions. Same can be said about real life war heroes. I'm sure in the liberation of western europe, many german ships were sank. Were these actions supposed to not happen?

Edited September 29, 2013 by Nobody

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The problem is not the fact that he burned these people. Its the reaction.

Imagine if Micaiah burned Sanaki, and the Dawn Brigade sings her praise. The DB would look like a total bastard, thats for sure.

This kind of thing does not happen in FE10 script, but the dudes on the story outright mocked her for this. The same thing does not happen on FOB

[Nobody]

The problem is not the fact that he burned these people. Its the reaction.

Imagine if Micaiah burned Sanaki, and the Dawn Brigade sings her praise. The DB would look like a total bastard, thats for sure.

This kind of thing does not happen in FE10 script, but the dudes on the story outright mocked her for this. The same thing does not happen on FOB

Well, for a start, the people from daein didn't want to side with Begnion, so there was no reason to commemorate when Micaiah tried to burn everyone alive. Yllisse was being invaded by a much more powerful country, and had no other option other than burn the inviders alive. Of course they're going to commemorate the fact that their country is free from the invaders.

And of course people would bash micaiah for doing what she did: she was fighting AGAINST them. if she was on Ike's side, you can be sure that they would praise her had she done the same thing to the enemies, that being the last resort. Also, nobody from the dawn brigade complained about her actions, even the more questionable, like sidinh with begnion.

As I said, it's war. If the tactician is able to defend their country, they're going to be praised regardless of what it took.

How is the avatar being praised from saving his country from being invaded any different from Marth saving his country from being invaded, if in both cases they had to kill hundred of thousands?

Edited September 29, 2013 by Nobody

[The Void]

FE games don't really dwell on the whole killing people thing as far as the Lords goes.

Oh sure, one of the Lords might complain about it in a chapter or more. But beyond that? Eh.

Did Sigurd get upset that much for all the soldiers who died against members of his army who weren't also fellows that he actually knew that much like Eldigan?

[BrightBow]

FE games don't really dwell on the whole killing people thing as far as the Lords goes.

Oh sure, one of the Lords might complain about it in a chapter or more. But beyond that? Eh.

Did Sigurd get upset that much for all the soldiers who died against members of his army who weren't also fellows that he actually knew that much like Eldigan?

It bothered him enough that he was going to go back to his king to convince him to pursue a peaceful solution with Shagal after getting called out by Levin. Despite Shagal keeping Eldigan prisoner at the time.

[The Void]

Sigurd and Lewyn were talking about Agustria's civilians (which has noncombatants).

And he certainly isn't shown to be all that upset in Chapter 4 (where he's interfering in another country's civil war) and Chapter 5 (where he's fighting his own countrymen).

Edited September 30, 2013 by The Void

[Dark Sage]

Personally I thought it was weird how Fredrick, Avatar, Chrom, and Lissa were able to jump into the water and then get back on a boat and survive, even though they should either burn to death or sink like stones and drown, because they wear armor/dresses/heavy robes and jumping into the ocean is dumb.

[The Void]

Personally I thought it was weird how Fredrick, Avatar, Chrom, and Lissa were able to jump into the water and then get back on a boat and survive, even though they should either burn to death or sink like stones and drown, because they wear armor/dresses/heavy robes and jumping into the ocean is dumb.

You got a point with Frederick, but not all of those characters are normal humans.

[BrightBow]

And again, Tibarn and Micaiah were enemies at the time. FE Lords aren't required to cry themselves to sleep or yell at their soldiers every time they or somebody in their army kills some guy or gal in the opposing army.

And no, they really don't have that much. You know who is a good boy and who is a puppy kicker in various FE games even with characters like Camus being around.

In RD, Jarod and his army was cartoonishly evil, most of the Senators were cartoonishly evil, the playable characters from Begnion weren't, Levail and other soldiers are just following orders, various members of Team Ashera aren't from Begnion. That's not what I would call a good track record.

I would call Radiant Dawn's track record quite a good track record in that regard.

For one thing, the fact that Jarod is shown to kill his own man shows that the Begnion soldiers have little choice but to oppose the guys on the game's cover and therefore deserve a certain degree of sympathy.

Micaiah also wasn't to hot about the whole poison plan. Though admittedly it's not quite clear if she opposes it on moral grounds or on the same grounds as Sothe, who is merely afraid that the plan could backfire.

Then in part 2, it's a civil war in Crimea. The people fighting against Elincia are shown as being merely misguided.

In Nephenee's chapter, she and Brom are shown subduing the rebelling villagers without killing them and the game rewards you with bonus exp should you reflect that in actual gameplay.

And after Lucia finds evidence for Ludveck's involvement, Elincia immediately deploys the Royal Knights against them... and then does cry herself to sleep after Geoffrey and Lucia leave and she is alone with Leanne and Nealuchi.

Elincia:...Why does this happen?! My people fight, brother against brother... And no matter what I do, I can't stop it! I'm a miserable failure. I just want to crawl into a cave somewhere. How can anyone believe in me now?

She is also shown to let the retreating rebels escape later on.

And in Geoffrey's chapter, he will demand from his men to spare the enemy soldiers when possible. Naturally you get BEXP like in Nephenee's chapter.

Part 3 with Micaiah going Robin on Ike should go without saying. We are obviously supposed to sympathize with both of them.

Then in Part 4, the game makes clear that the Order opposes Team Ike because they consider the Apostle a fraud and Micaiah the dark god. In other words: the bad guys. To Sanaki's visible distress.

The party also shows disgust about Ashera reanimating their dead bodies.

Also, the whole point of the game was that the worlds creator was judging her creation and punishing them all equally for killing each other all the time. It didn't matter to her against who they were fighting. Not to mention that when Ike confronts her, he requests a last chance instead of actually disagreeing with her judgment.

Edited September 30, 2013 by BrightBow

[RJWalker]

My point is that Awakening has no sense of grey morality. Avatar's actions are presented as something to sing praises of. There is no sense of disgust or even the slightest discomfort over the strategy. In RD, both sides are disgusted, obviously one more than the other. No one praises Micaiah for her actions. Even the fandom decries her for this.

So yeah, I call total bullshit on anyone claiming that previous FE games didn't have much grey morality.

[General Banzai]

The Japanese version of the game also makes Ludveck seem much more justified in his actions, and his final speech with Elincia is even somewhat convincing

[MasterJP28]

The Japanese version of the game also makes Ludveck seem much more justified in his actions, and his final speech with Elincia is even somewhat convincing

In all honesty I do agree with Ludveck about Elincia not being experienced, but had he taken a different approach rather than trying to instigate a civil war, well we wouldn't have had part 2 and Greil Mercenaries awesomeness at the end of part 2. So screw it, to war baby!!!

[BravuraLevi]

Awakening DOES have areas of grey morality.For instance, when Emmeryn is about to die, you have to choose to tell Chrom, your best friend, whether or not, whether or not Emmeryn (his sister.)should be given up. Of course,it reaches the same conclusion, but it's still grey. in the very next chapter, Mustafa and his men don't want to fight, the only reason he fights is so Gangrel doesn't murder his family, and the soldiers fight for him, because he's a good man. The Plegians were likely also misguided, as they leave when they see/hear of Emmeryn's death.Next, in flames on the blue, I think people are forgetting this is a game where burning people (with fire magic) is a normal thing. It was less honorable then straight up fighting them, but there's a difference between fighting and suicide. In the end, it turned out in 'killing' Gangrel and Walhart, he helped Validar, the death of the former caused confusion, which was the only reason villagers (NORMAL villagers in Plegia) joined the Grimleal, showing that they were not all evil,just misguided. Walhart was full on trying to attain peace, and stop Grima. Also Henry and Ricken's supports.