Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Okay so if scum really do have a kill then I'm confirmed town. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 But if I have to believe Schtolteheim there's apparently a Doctor, Tracker, Rolecop and Jailer in play, all on Town's side. Maybe Manix is trying to say "screw role speculation," but then this is bastard of the highest degree and appropriate warning would have been pleasant. So... I have to consider that there can be no way Town has both a Jailer and a Doctor, especially when the Doctor has such weird rationale for picking his N1 target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 hot wheels did you roll arsonist again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Seriously, Hot Wheels is my #1 choice for any sort of ITP at this point due to the miller claim. I could very easily see him #YOLOing it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You're not, Insane Techniques. I targeted you night 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemu Kurotsuchi Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 sorry I meant hooker target reinbach why did you vote dragonite on d2 after inspecting him as vanilla? Don't know if you heard, but vanilla scum and vanilla town scan the same. I am a rolecop, not an alignment cop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Yeah but I also picked up on your crumb and wouldn't have realistically been sent on the kill. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizen Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Cut by about 20 posts... Beethoven: At some point I realized that the only thing I really had as a case on him was that ED1 empty votehop, and while that's bad, his play balanced it out. Then I asked myself who I thought was scum, asked myself who they would kill, and protected that person. More thoughts coming later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I wouldn't be totally surprised if scum have a tailor and Reinbach is legit. Even if Shiki is town, Manix hates rolespec and it could cast doubt on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Nijika Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hnngh is it possible for Reinbach to be a scum rolecop and Grillmaster is actually his buddy whom he cleared because it's LYLO? I mean ... we can't ALL be town so someone has to be lying about something. And trying to figure out the jailer-doctor-roleblocker interaction is giving me quite a headache. Also why the fuck did we have miller tracker without an alignment cop unless this is Manix's way of saying "stop rolespeccing"? >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 but actually that's just the part of me that wants to be right about scum!fluffy talking. IDK really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Yeah but I also picked up on your crumb and wouldn't have realistically been sent on the kill. <_< But how would you know I was a Jailer at the time? I didn't claim that until after night phase ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 You crumbed it pretty heavily before the start of D3. Like "said your target had to be the killer or the kill target" crumbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Yes, which means even if you picked up on my target crumb there's nothing that should have dissuaded you from actually going on the kill if you were Mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Let me make that clear: If you understood my first violin/second violin post as being a target crumb at night (being the ballsy fucker I am), and let's say you were scum, WHY SHOULD THIS MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN? ALL you knew at the time we were allowed to change targets was "Beethoven will target me tonight." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 because you claimed you jailed your n1 target, which means if scum sent on the kill knew you'd target them, they'd change the scum actions to have somebody else kill instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemu Kurotsuchi Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hnngh is it possible for Reinbach to be a scum rolecop and Grillmaster is actually his buddy whom he cleared because it's LYLO? I mean ... we can't ALL be town so someone has to be lying about something. And trying to figure out the jailer-doctor-roleblocker interaction is giving me quite a headache. Also why the fuck did we have miller tracker without an alignment cop unless this is Manix's way of saying "stop rolespeccing"? >_> If we were scumbuddies, why would I not claim alignment cop? This would not only allow me to get an actual clear, but would be more easily accepted considering the existence of millers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Insane Techniques, yeahno. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44441&p=2778718 Look at the timestamp. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44441&p=2778068 Look at the timestamp. There's 3 hours and 13 minutes left in the phase, and I am not going to be around again. If neither host is present, talk as much as you want. Actions can't be changed after deadline, however. There were over 3 hours and 30 minutes between that post and the post in which I claimed my night action. Therefore, A Scum Insane Techniques could not have changed their actions despite catching on to my crumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 it'd be pretty easy to just argue grillmaster as godfather if anybody was that convinced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 hot wheels did you roll arsonist again idk did you get cult recruited again? (also arsonist by itself couldnt cause lylo) insane is confirmed town fhpov (other than just via his role pm) because you jailkeeping him means either that you blocked a kill on him or grillmaster blocked a kill on him. plus what he just said I guess. this is what I don't get: if the purpose of this setup is to punish rolespec, then why is there no cop claim? like if I were manix designing this type of setup, after the double millers and tailor, I would give mafia or cult leader or whomever the anti-town is a cop fakeclaim. but there's just no cop at all, so what's the point of the double millers and tailor in the first place? manix would have to know that most experienced players getting those roles would all claim asap and that generally would cause less chance of a mislynch even with an early CC. reinbach, scum goons are way less common than town vanillas and there's no evidence that that even played into your thought process. but I guess your point that you could have claimed cop is a good one. you were the last player to claim and knew 100% there wasn't a town cop even if manix hadn't given it as a fake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 @Beethoven: I did not see that modpost or know people were prevented from changing their actions :X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Nijika Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Okay. I'm going to try to make sense of IT, Grillmaster, and Beethoven's roles and actions. N1: IT => Dragonite; Grillmaster => IT; Beethoven => Grillmaster N2: IT => Fluffy; Grillmaster => IT; Beethoven => IT Assuming all three are legit and not lying about their actions and their actions were successful (and that scum can kill), IT could not have been the source of the no-kill on N1 because Dragonite is confirmed town. Beethoven would have stopped Grillmaster from carrying out his action, which would leave Beethoven as the source of the no-kill. On N2, both Grillmaster and Beethoven targeted IT. IT blocked Fluffy, but if Beethoven's actions are legit and succeeded then IT cannot be the source of the no-kill because he was jailed. However, if scum tried to kill IT then Beethoven's jail would have stopped it. (Jail also stops doctor, but whatever.) Beethoven would again be the source of the kill, one way or another. No matter how hard I look at it, if scum can actually kill then someone has to be lying about something because the current claims and actions say that Beethoven is the only one who could've stopped a no-kill if his action was successful on N1 and scum either tried to kill IT or is IT on N2. And since we're not informed of successes or failures or if we got redirected or stuff like that this is even more annoying to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Nijika Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 If we were scumbuddies, why would I not claim alignment cop? This would not only allow me to get an actual clear, but would be more easily accepted considering the existence of millers. Ugh ... that's a good point ... I don't even know what to think anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Might Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 jailer is normally just hook + doc, not hook + omniguard. jail wouldn't have blocked the doc, though both would have blocked a potential nk on insane. ugh this setup doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 it's not a good point lol, rolecop is better evidence for grill's towniness because godfathers exist i think grill is scum on rolespec whatever. tailor!fluffy for his buddy because tunneling is cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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