FE9 <2 hours 10 min

[Chiki]

[dondon151]

only watched chapter 16 for now, so just a few comments.

1. you should undeploy laguz if you're not going to use them (and don't undeploy beorc unless they really mess up X switching). if the chapter is short enough, you don't need to undeploy late transformers.

2. the cursor trick that i described earlier can also be used if ike is being rescued. if titania is in the first deployment slot (i.e., right below ike), the cursor should switch to titania if ike is being rescued if it works like in earlier games.

3. at 3:20, experiment to see if you can unequip titania while preventing the knight from blocking the door. alternatively, you can perhaps not move as far to the left so that the knight on the left can't attack you.

Edited December 21, 2013 by dondon151

[Chiki]

1. you should undeploy laguz if you're not going to use them (and don't undeploy beorc unless they really mess up X switching). if the chapter is short enough, you don't need to undeploy late transformers.

2. the cursor trick that i described earlier can also be used if ike is being rescued. if titania is in the first deployment slot (i.e., right below ike), the cursor should switch to titania if ike is being rescued if it works like in earlier games.

3. at 3:20, experiment to see if you can unequip titania while preventing the knight from blocking the door. alternatively, you can perhaps not move as far to the left so that the knight on the left can't attack you.

Yeah, I should undeploy them in 16, because there's two unneeded ones, but I guess I don't have to if there's only one unneeded subhuman, since it should be around the same amount of time in the end.

I experimented it prior to posting the video and they all go for Titania instead of Volke for some reason.

I let Ike take all the stat boosters for endgame. According to my calculations he needs 25 strength to be able to reliably kill Ashnard in 3 hits (one crit assuming he's at full health). I probably won't need to bexp dump him again.

I placed Reyson and Tanith where they are there to block reinforcements. I guess moving Ike there in a few turns takes more than dropping Reyson there and letting him transform.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Chiki

[Chiki]

I recruited Calill just in case Marcia fails to get a crit and for Chapter 22 and 25.

You can tell how much my execution skills improved since I first started.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Balcerzak]

I placed Reyson and Tanith where they are there to block reinforcements. I guess moving Ike there in a few turns takes more than dropping Reyson there and letting him transform.

Wouldn't it save time in the last Player Phase to attack an untransformed Raven, or does the time taken to X-switch cost more?

[Chiki]

Well, you'd have to consider the time of the x-switch going around the map and the time taken to attack the raven. I think it's the same amount of time or very near that.

[Florete]

I haven't calculated it myself or anything, but I would think X-switching twice and quickly going through the attack menus (Marcia doesn't even have to move, so you'd just mash A) would be faster than watching the raven transform and then attack you.

[Vykan_12]

I've only looked at your most recent video so far but why don't you use the 1 turn strat for C19? Did you time the shove train to take more time than having to wait through an enemy phase?

Also, in reply to some things dondon wrote on page one:

is there a way to turn off autocursor? autocursor generally wastes time, and it cost you a second to go from ike to titania in chapter 2.

It’s better to leave autocursor on for the consistency of having the cursor always start on Ike at the beginning of every turn. It makes planning much easier when optimizing X-switches.

does FE9 have a button that you can hold down to make the cursor go really fast? this exists in every other FE game to my knowledge. you should learn to move the cursor with that speed.

It doesn’t. I know that if you hold start in Radiant Dawn you skip the yellow triangle pointer that shows up over a unit’s head before they attack, and mashing any of start, A and Z skips exp bars and phase messages, but that’s about it.

---

I'll have a look at the rest of your videos when I have the time.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Vykan_12

[Chiki]

I haven't calculated it myself or anything, but I would think X-switching twice and quickly going through the attack menus (Marcia doesn't even have to move, so you'd just mash A) would be faster than watching the raven transform and then attack you.

Yeah you're right. I'll just kill him next time.

Chapter 22 is making me miserable. I can't use the Meteor strategy because it's too unreliable even with Tormod and Calill together.

I guess I might just have to use that strategy though, and restart every time it fails.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Chiki]

[Chiki]

This is the most reliable strategy I can make. The Spear gives Marcia just enough might to kill the boss with help from Calill, since it has 1 more might than a forged Javelin.

I can do a quicker strategy with Calill, Tormod and Reyson but that's not suitable for a single segment run. The chance of success is pretty damn low.

Alright, just finished Chapter 24 at 1:44:15. I'm over 14 minutes ahead of SMK's run. I'm not even sure how much I'm ahead of Rushin lol. Probably half an hour or so.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Vykan_12]

Double posting to separate my execution and planning comments since they're both quite long.

Execution

Prologue: Do what dondon said: d-pad right then 1UL on the first move, d-pad left then 1U on the second.

Chapter 1: On turn 2 you can take the cursor off Oscar and press X to go to Ike, who is only 1 square away from Titania.

Chapter 2: Once you’re done with the initial combat, put whoever X-switches to Titania next to Ike. That way at the beginning of each turn you can move the cursor 1 space + press X and go immediately to Titania.

Chapter 4: I’d probably double X switch to Titania instead of a manual switch.

Chapter 5: Press Z + up + A to end turn instead of A + up + A. This way you don’t have to take the cursor off Ike each turn.

Chapter 6: After Titania kills the archer, do d-pad down then 1UR on the canto. On the turn where Titania attacks the boss you can hold the analog stick down then 1U to efficiently reach the boss. Now when you actually target the boss, test pressing d-pad + each of the 4 directions to see if you can target him with one d-pad press. Normally it’s faster and more reliable to target with the d-pad than the analog stick. You need to be faster on your weapon drops.

Chapter 7: Again you’re missing opportunities to take the cursor off a character and press X to switch to Ike, who is 1 space away from the unit you wanted to move (in this case, Boyd). On turn 2 you can simply end Rhys’ movement so that you could directly X-switch from Oscar to Titania (presumably). On turn 3 you should be able to X-switch to Titania, manually switching over that great a distance is never ideal.

Chapter 8: At 1:10 you can move Titania d-pad left + d-pad down. In general, you’re not taking advantage of movement boundaries to use d-pad moves when they’re the better choice. I recommend you watch my GBA cursor movement tutorial since I talk about that at great length. On the turn where Titania attacks the archer, it’s probably best not to hold B since holding B is very tricky on movement that is 3 squares or less, and usually costs more time than normal movement due to having to correct the space the cursor lands on.

Chapter 11: You can hold B when re-positioning units. I’m pretty sure you can also select empty slots like in Radiant Dawn.

Chapter 12: Drop the coin the turn after you receive it to prevent your inventory from getting clogged.

Chapter 13: Reposition Oscar and Marcia instead of the other way around. This way the cursor’s already on Oscar when you reposition him again. You might’ve made similar mistakes on your next repositions, hard to tell without booting up the game myself and testing it out. At 5:32 I’m almost certain Marcia would move to the right place by holding d-pad right then d-pad up-right.

Chapter 14: Reposition Mist and Volke instead of vice versa. I think you could hold B when repositioning here too since the units you’re moving are decently far apart. Oh, and apparently you can avoid laguz transformation animations by holding A, if someone didn’t mention that already. On Marcia’s first move I’d probably do d-pad up then 2DL.

Chapter 16: I believe you can skip the door open animation by hitting start.

Chapter 17-3: I noticed you had a 1 use javelin left, probably best to drop it after its uses dry up to free up inventory space.

Chapter 18: Your base is too damn tricky, look to simplify it. One change I’d probably make is have Ike give all then take back his steel forge. This way it makes it easier for him to take all his stat boosters. Reposition empty slot & Reyson instead of Reyson & empty slot.

Chapter 22: You really need to work on your repositioning. Same principle as always: If you can switch two characters, always start with the one you have to move again so that the cursor remains on them after the reposition.

---

So in general, your movement is quite good, although I recommend you work on the following:

1) Use the d-pad more often. I'm not sure if you used the d-pad at all in fact. Taking advantage of movement boundaries is paramount in optimizing movement.

2) Get used to taking the cursor off a character and pressing X to switch back to Ike. I call these "off-switches".

3) Z + up + A, not A + up + A to end turns

4) Optimize your repositioning

[Vykan_12]

Planning

Chapter 4: How come you drop an iron axe instead of an iron lance? You do it again when the boss drops a javelin. You mention needing it for chapter 6, why is the iron lance better there? WTA on the lone myrmidon she faces?

Chapter 5: Since Gatrie’s animation is so slow, perhaps have Shinon kill the soldier and Rhys takes away his bow to disarm him?

Chapter 7: You triggered the arrival of Gatrie on turn 1, which is bad considering Gatrie’s attacks are slow as molasses. It’s better to delay that event so Titania can take care of the enemies near Gatrie. See here for a map that shows the reinforcement lines.

Chapter 9: Titania finished with 2 hp with plenty of enemies left to attack her, so this strat is too risky for single segment. You’ll need to heal her somewhere, even if it means losing a player phase attack. I also recommend you look at the rescue chain strat used in the TAS since I’m pretty sure you can save a turn even with Marcia’s recruitment.

Chapter 10: Surely there must be a way to efficiently stealth this chapter without waiting out the first few turns?

Chapter 12: BEXP Ike to 20 and he should be able to double & ORKO the ravens with the laguzslayer

Chapter 13: Do you have to send Astrid so far away from the enemies? Best to move the least distance just out of enemy range.

Chapter 14: How come you didn’t use the 2 turn strat?

Chapter 16: Shouldn’t you wait to get enough BEXP to make Marcia lv 20 in one shot or do you desperately need the extra point of strength right away?

Chapter 19: As I said before, try out Krad's 1 turn strategy. After having watched it I’m almost certain 1 turning is faster.

Chapter 20: I assume Calill would’ve finished the boss with a siege tome had Marcia not crit?

Chapter 21: It’s probably faster to kill the 3 soldiers who chase down Tanith than to leave them alive. And can’t you disarm Ike on the 2^nd to last turn?

[Chiki]

Chapter 4: How come you drop an iron axe instead of an iron lance? You do it again when the boss drops a javelin. You mention needing it for chapter 6, why is the iron lance better there? WTA on the lone myrmidon she faces?

Yes. Though since I updated my strat since then I won't need the Iron Lance anymore.

Chapter 5: Since Gatrie’s animation is so slow, perhaps have Shinon kill the soldier and Rhys takes away his bow to disarm him?

That would make it necessary to give Shinon back his bow later. Two trades probably aren't worth it. I have Titania kill him instead now.

Chapter 7: You triggered the arrival of Gatrie on turn 1, which is bad considering Gatrie’s attacks are slow as molasses. It’s better to delay that event so Titania can take care of the enemies near Gatrie. See here for a map that shows the reinforcement lines.

Then there'd be no one to take care of the thief + mage and soldier from the southwest + mage and soldier from the south reinforcements when they come. Titania would have go to take care of the enemies near Gatrie, then go back south to kill them (no one else can), then go back north to deal with the boss. It'd take at least a couple minutes longer.

Chapter 9: Titania finished with 2 hp with plenty of enemies left to attack her, so this strat is too risky for single segment. You’ll need to heal her somewhere, even if it means losing a player phase attack. I also recommend you look at the rescue chain strat used in the TAS since I’m pretty sure you can save a turn even with Marcia’s recruitment.

I just have her use a Vulnerary which costs just a few seconds.

Chapter 10: Surely there must be a way to efficiently stealth this chapter without waiting out the first few turns?

No, it's what Braster himself did.

Chapter 14: How come you didn’t use the 2 turn strat?

Marcia doesn't have to fight any enemies; neither do Lethe and Mordecai and whoever else I'd need to bring for the 2 turn.

Chapter 16: Shouldn’t you wait to get enough BEXP to make Marcia lv 20 in one shot or do you desperately need the extra point of strength right away?

I was already in the bexp screen and Marcia gets less exp in general if she's a higher level for 16 and 17. I think it saves a bit of time.

Chapter 19: As I said before, try out Krad's 1 turn strategy. After having watched it I’m almost certain 1 turning is faster.

That video is misleading. He skipped the base and he already prepared for the chapter. I already tried it out and the strategy takes a minute longer.

Chapter 20: I assume Calill would’ve finished the boss with a siege tome had Marcia not crit?

Yes.

Chapter 21: It’s probably faster to kill the 3 soldiers who chase down Tanith than to leave them alive. And can’t you disarm Ike on the 2^nd to last turn?

As you can see there are Generals which block Ike's path. And I'll probably kill them next time.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Chiki]

SMK's normal strategy doesn't work here, because my fixed mode Marcia is a lot more fragile. So I simply have her hold Ike's Iron Sword instead to give her WTA on turn 1, and her chance of survival is very high.

I tried out a bunch of other strategies involving Reyson and such, but they all failed because they just triggered the CRK's appearance on turn 4.

In Chapter 24, I don't need to use Reyson to 4 turn the map. But Reyson is necessary if you want to get to that magic spot to avoid the battle animations on turn 1.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Vykan_12]

As you can see there are Generals which block Ike's path. And I'll probably kill them next time.

In the video both generals attack Ike from below. If one attacks from below and the other attacks from the left/right, Ike should still have a clear path to the throne. In fact, he’ll have a clear path so long as they don’t position above and to his left, respectively.

I tried out a bunch of other strategies involving Reyson and such, but they all failed because they just triggered the CRK's appearance on turn 4.

Can you elaborate on this? According to this map, the trigger for the CRK is rather far (the green line).

Edited December 22, 2013 by Vykan_12

[Chiki]

In the video both generals attack Ike from below. If one attacks from below and the other attacks from the left/right, Ike should still have a clear path to the throne. In fact, he’ll have a clear path so long as they don’t position above and to his left, respectively.

I'll try it out. If it doesn't work it'll probably be because the AI behaves differently when someone is unequipped (for example, in 16, the AI behaves differently when Titania is unequipped).

Can you elaborate on this? According to this map, the trigger for the CRK is rather far.

Marcia needs to reach a magic spot on turn 3, where the enemies don't block both Ike and Marcia's path to Petrine. The only ways for that are as follows: the method in the video, where Marcia is right above the ballista; where the archer is standing (impossible); or the point with the CRK trigger.

I'm now contemplating on whether to bexp dump Elincia. The bexp dump will only be needed for 26 and 27, because I figured out a reliable 2 turn for Endgame without needing it. 3 turning 26 seems impossible under speedrun constraints.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Balcerzak]

On the bridge, wouldn't it be better for Marcia to use a stronger sword turn 1, so she cleanly kills the cavalier etc, and the priest doesn't waste time healing them? Or does that not work/take more time with dying animations/trading sword back to Ike?

[Chiki]

On the bridge, wouldn't it be better for Marcia to use a stronger sword turn 1, so she cleanly kills the cavalier etc, and the priest doesn't waste time healing them? Or does that not work/take more time with dying animations/trading sword back to Ike?

She has a very low sword rank, and I don't think it's worth forging an Iron Sword just for that.

[Chiki]

I HATE this chapter. The time can wildly vary depending on how lucky you get with crits and with enemy stats; even more so than 27. I have an attempt where I got sub 1:51 in 3 turns. It should be easier with Laguzslayer Ike, though.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Vykan_12]

She has a very low sword rank, and I don't think it's worth forging an Iron Sword just for that.

Actually he has a point. You leave 2 enemies alive that would've otherwise died to the forge, who get to move 2 extra turns and are both physic healed. The time to make the forge is easily less than that.

By the way, you're still making the same execution mistakes as before in your most recent video. I'm hoping that's only because this is a testrun and you're being lazy. Even if that's the case, it's definitely worthwhile getting used to d-pad movement, especially for straightaway movement (ie fully left, right, up or down).

[Chiki]

Well, if I have the money to forge I'll do it.

Wow, I didn't even know you could move to the d-pad. It's so fast it literally makes me dizzy. It's really hard to use for anything that isn't straight movement though; it's much easier for me to use the control stick for that.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Chiki

[Vykan_12]

Wow, I didn't even know you could move to the d-pad. It's so fast it literally makes me dizzy. It's really hard to use for anything that isn't straight movement though; it's much easier for me to use the control stick for that.

Did you even read the post I made about execution? >_>

The general fundamental is you use the d-pad for most straight moves (ex going full movement range left) and movements where you can take advantage of movement boundaries (ex/ holding d-pad left then d-pad up when there's a nearby wall to the left). The analog stick is used for movements where the d-pad doesn't work well, particularly diagonal movements. If I had to guess, I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of my movement in RD speedrunning uses the d-pad.

It's important you get used to using both since you will constantly be switching from one to the other, depending on movement. I even use the d-pad sometimes to correct a movement that was one square off using the analog stick, but that's a somewhat advanced trick I only learned recently.

[Chiki]

I didn't see it. Probably because I didn't expect a double post. That's helpful, thanks.

I haven't been serious with the execution yet because I'm only doing strategies for now. Though I'll work on the execution once the videos are done.

Using Elincia for Rescue is not viable here, because she gets wrecked by the enemies. It's necessary to give Elincia the Full Guard and Marcia the Laguzguard so both have a decent chance at surviving enemy attacks.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Chiki

[Chiki]

Well, this chapter sucks. Marcia has a low but important chance of dying, but that should be okay if I give the second Seraph Robe to her as well. Ike doesn't really need it. Tanith has a tiny chance of dying if Bolting hits several times, but that's very unlikely.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Chiki