FEWiki Suggestion/Complaint Thread

[Xenomic]

AFAIK, Tana's Manor doesn't use tabs for the growth rates (they combined the growth rates into the base stats and whatnot, which is why I didn't combine both of them together. I think Fireemblem.wikia.org or whatever the other FE wiki is does that too). The base stats aren't presented in a table due to well...it wouldn't work with the base stats what with all of the extra information in there that'd cram a table up. With growth rates, it's easier with a table and easier to compare (this is also why the FE13 Children Max Stat Modifiers are in a table as opposed to tabs as well).

But that depends on what everyone else thinks I suppose...if more people want tabs for the Growth Rates (as well as the Max Stats Modifiers for the FE13 Children), then I can probably whip something up easily...

[Xenomic]

Since the Terrain page is as done as it'll get by me (I can't do the first 3 games at all...not enough data on them I feel), I'm moving on to the Secret Shop page:

Originally, Chapter and Location were in the table as well, but there was no neat way to fit them in, so the Chapter is now a subsection, and the Location is just text. I figured this would be a good time to get all of the Secret Shops listed on one page, which I don't know why they weren't to begin with (Shops has an excuse, as all Shops should NOT be listed under one page...). This is as good as it's going to get with this too...I guess screenshots COULD be useful on this page maybe? I'll leave that up to you guys though...

[Xenomic]

Ok, so here's the question! Would you guys prefer the lists be one-by-one on a line like up above, or side-by-side like so?

EDIT - New one while I wait for an answer to the above, decided to do something about those godawful List of Weapons and Items pages, starting with FE12 since I have weapon descriptions:

Borrowed from the FFWiki as I recalled doing something like this with those tables. It'll make it easier to compare the various weapons from one game with another weapon in the same game at least! Progress! It is happening on this wiki! @_@;

Edited February 18, 2014 by Xenomic

[Otherarrow]

I think side by side looks more space efficient and thus better looking. Go for that.

The weapon table looks like it'd work nicely! Thanks a lot!

(Now, I need to stop procrastinating on template fixing. Guh. Sorry.)

[Xenomic]

Here's the problem though. While adding to my To-Do list...well, I'll show you guys:

FE1/11 (I'm pretty sure this page needs split as well right? FE1 stats aren't the same as FE11 stats?):

FE2:

FE4:

FE5:

FE6:

FE7:

FE8:

FE9:

FE10:

FE13:

Lots of different ways the tables are handled. I think the way I'm doing it though is the more efficient way (the icons would be in the Name column to the left of the names). However, we need to decide what to do with the FE1/11 weapons and the FE3/12 weapons, as I'm pretty sure the stats are NOT the same between the two games at all...

For those who are wondering what the bottom column is with the italicized text in my table, that's the description of the item. If we're going to have all data, might as well get descriptions too!

[Otherarrow]

Wow, holy shit I didn't realize how inconsistent the tables and lists for these types of pages were.

I mentioned this on the IRC, but yeah. Split them.

[Xenomic]

Yeah, I'm going to unify them all as you see for the FE3/12 page. We could do the color coded sections but that'd require a lot of custom coding that I don't really understand and whatnot so meh! We'll live without the colors for now!

[dondon151]

you guys should probably change all instances of "reblow" to physic

[Xenomic]

I'm just going with what it's called in-game in the most used version. Otherwise, calling it "Physic" in a game where it's called "Reblow" wouldn't help much, right?

[Otherarrow]

Since it's never been "Reblow" in English, we probably should change it to Physic when it shows up on pages. I've been changing such names as I've found them when doing the FE4 templates, if it helps.

...What kind of name is Reblow anyway?

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Wait, Reblow and Libro aren't the same thing, are they? I never realized how close Reblow is to Libro

EDIT: They are lol. If they're the same in japanese then it should be just one on the page. (my vote goes towards Libro)

Edited February 19, 2014 by L95

[Otherarrow]

My vote goes for Physic. :P

But jokes aside, oh wow I didn't notice that we don't even list the Japanese names for some of these items consistently. How...how did we managed to fuck up that badly?

Guh. Sorry about that.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Otherarrow

[Klokinator]

Reblow is the worst name ever, hands down. Fellatio is no joke.

My vote goes to Libro/Physic too.

[RJWalker]

Go with Physic.

[Xenomic]

Yeah, the wiki is quite the mess what with the inconsistencies it has. I'm not even sure what to do to fix up the pages that have tables already for instance (such as FE11 and FE13). I'd have to remove the Icon column and move the icons into the Name column, then have to move columns so that they appear as they would in the FE12 section so that they're consistent, and then add the bottom part to each section for the description and make sure that the tables are formatted the right way and split up accordingly like FE12's section is and...it's just a loooooot of work. FE12's Weapon page took me all day yesterday (as in, it took me 6 hours or so to do the entire page). I dread to think of how long it'll take to do that for other pages.

Here's something! If anyone can help with Awakening's item/weapon descriptions, that'll help speed things along (I don't own the game so I can't get the descriptions). There's quite a few missing from FE12 that I don't have either, and if anyone can grab the descriptions from any of the other games, that'll help a lot too! ^^;;

[Otherarrow]

Yeah, we should probably just make it policy to use the English names always. I think there was some reason we listed the Japanese name for Japanese only games, but in retrospect, what's the point? The article already lists the Japanese name. There is no point in listing it beyond that.

The name columns in those item page templates should be used when the name is actually different (mostly due to TRS I think, but I think it comes up in the FE games sometimes), not just when the game isn't translated into English.

Thinking on it a bit, those are my two cents.

[Xenomic]

Well, I was referring more to the List of Weapons pages moreso than the actual item pages (like say, Physic's page), where on that page I kinda agree. Though you COULD always take after the FFWiki's style of how they handle recurring equipment pages (they don't use tables at all though for the most part. It's all just text).

[Otherarrow]

Well, I was referring more to the List of Weapons pages moreso than the actual item pages (like say, Physic's page), where on that page I kinda agree. Though you COULD always take after the FFWiki's style of how they handle recurring equipment pages (they don't use tables at all though for the most part. It's all just text).

I was referring to both really. For example, referring to Physic as "Libro" or whatever on the non-item pages (whether it be list pages or on the character pages or so on) is just confusing to readers who don't know the Japanese name and thus don't know that they are the same item, while listing it on the sections of the Physic page is redundant because that article already stats what the Japanese name is and that has never changed (It never stopped being Libro in Japan, the same way it was always Physic in English). If I am making any sense.

If it's all just text, how do they deal with the equipment's stats though?

Edited February 19, 2014 by Otherarrow

[Xenomic]

Well, keep in mind that the wiki in GENERAL is aimed for the English audience, so it's safe to assume that anyone using the ENGLISH FE wiki, is looking for the ENGLISH names of stuff. So if Physic is called Reblow in FE3 in the English patches (probably using the most commonly used patch, which is probably from here), it should be named as such on the pages that it's on for FE3. That's how the FFWiki handles it too. Back when Final Fantasy III didn't have an English release, it used the fan translated names instead of the Japanese names, and then once the English version was released, it used that version's name instead of the fan translated one (if applicable or needed). It's so that the English users that's using a patch to play the Japanese version can find what they're looking for without having to figure out what it might be from the Japanese version (imagine you playing FE3, you get a "Reblow", which is yes, Libro in the Japanese version or Physic in other versions. You want to know more on the staff, so you go to look up Reblow on the FE3 Weapons list, but you can't find it because it's named something else. Granted, they COULD look on the actual page itself, assuming everything redirects there, but it's the principle of the matter here).

That's just my two cents on that. Dunno if anyone else agrees though.

Example from the Ultima Weapon page:

That's how they handle recurring weapons (note, they don't have a page for every weapon, as that'd bloat that wiki up with unnecessary data that can be handled on the List of pages.

[Otherarrow]

Oh, so they literally just write it out in text. Huh. Well, I guess that's one way to do it, and I guess it works, but something about that doesn't sit well to me. I can't capture why (as I am bad at explaining anything) but I don't think that would work on the FEWiki. I prefer the templates. Makes comparing stats between games easier too.

[Xenomic]

Understandable. It's less appealing to the eye is probably what you're thinking of. Originally, the FFWiki was using tables like that too, but it just didn't...look right on there at all and made the page look more cluttered than it should've. Perhaps if the templates used on the weapon/item pages were done in a way where...they didn't seem to be as cluttered? Perhaps reusing the FE4/13 templates and modifying them so that they're smaller and more compact?

Also, did we ever decide on what to do with the Class Infoboxes? I know we were going to use tabs in there (so that we could compare classes from the Infobox itself), though that'll leave the page awfully empty. Hmm...

[Balcerzak]

Well, keep in mind that the wiki in GENERAL is aimed for the English audience, so it's safe to assume that anyone using the ENGLISH FE wiki, is looking for the ENGLISH names of stuff. So if Physic is called Reblow in FE3 in the English patches (probably using the most commonly used patch, which is probably from here), it should be named as such on the pages that it's on for FE3.

Isn't that what "You have been redirected from Reblow" type things are for?

[Otherarrow]

Cluttered? What do you mean? I guess we can make/update the item templates and work with tabs with that?

Didn't technical issues with the tabs stop us from doing the character template upgrade?

I guess we should explain, since I don't think it came up here: We were planning on revamping the Class templates to have tabs, with the first tab showing general information, basically what is there now and the rest to show the base stats and stuff like skills and such for each game. However, this didn't get past the planning stages.

Anyway, to be fair, what would be going into the templates is something the wiki doesn't have yet anyway...

[Xenomic]

@Balcerzak: That's what I was referring to when checking on the actual weapon's page with "Granted, they COULD look on the actual page itself, assuming everything redirects there, but it's the principle of the matter here)." I'm more referring to if they were to go to the weapon page itself. Weapon pages for specific game should still stick to the name given in the English version (since it's an English wiki and all). Redirects work fine for when going to the actual page themselves (though even on the actual pages, the English given name should still be kept I feel).

@Otherarrow: Well, think of how compact and nice looking the FE4/13 templates look in comparison to how long the templates are on the other pages, like say Physic. Would you prefer the templates to be super long like that? Or would you prefer the data be compact and easier to read?

The technical issues with the character template upgrade was due to the wikia's cache not caching up for some reason. So it's not really due to the templates itself so much as the wiki (which is weird, since the FFWiki doesn't have any issues so...).

[Otherarrow]

@Otherarrow: Well, think of how compact and nice looking the FE4/13 templates look in comparison to how long the templates are on the other pages, like say Physic. Would you prefer the templates to be super long like that? Or would you prefer the data be compact and easier to read?

The technical issues with the character template upgrade was due to the wikia's cache not caching up for some reason. So it's not really due to the templates itself so much as the wiki (which is weird, since the FFWiki doesn't have any issues so...).

Ah, yes. I understand you. In which case, yeah, I see your point on making the templates for the item pages more compact and such. Not only would it make it look less cluttered, it'd be better to look at in general.