Got a few questions on Lunatic No Grind No Class Change for this game.

[dailyfiber]

Hey all. I beat this game on release on Lunatic, but I went pretty heavy handed with the change seals to rack up great skills, as well as using the DLC for grinding.

I want to play it again, a No Grind No Reclass run. That way it'll feel more like a traditional FE experience.

Also, I didn't use Virion the first time. I really like him now after reading his supports so I'm pretty dead set on using him as a sniper. How useful is he in Lunatic though? From what I gather most people think he's pretty useless.

I also hate to ask this here cause I'm sure it's been discussed to hell and back but I'm wondering who the best fathers for Inigo, Brady, and Laurent would be in a no class change Lunatic run. Since it's no class change I think I'll turn them into Hero, Sage, and Sage respectively. (Sage for healing ofc)

Oh also is there any sort of generally agreed upon tier list for Lunatic? Tier lists are sort of a sticky subject anyway for FE and this game makes it even more confusing. I've seen a few different lists floating around, but they all seem pretty different from one another.

[Shadow Mir]

Can't be much help on the rest, but there's no tier list for this game.

[dailyfiber]

yeah I figured as much. Seems kinda arbitrary too considering this game is so different from the others. Lots of customization and things like that, plus you can even use change seals to make everyone reach their caps.

[Czar_Yoshi]

The best fathers are Chrom or nobody. Lunatic is easiest when lowmanned, and those children (especially Inigo) aren't really worth getting. Well, Laurent would be if you could reclass him to DM, but you can't.

I tried a run like this a while ago, and all you need to do is marry Avatar to Tharja or Nowi (for Morgan's starting class) and watch the challenge turn to dust before your eyes.

Virion could be good on Lunatic+ if he got some really nice levelups at the start, but isn't worth it on Lunatic because there's no Counter to dodge.

[Tables]

Well, there are tier lists, but they all vary in scope and have generally died as people can't really agree on sensible criteria to rate units, or the criteria a tier list is working towards ends up being not interesting enough.

Virion is ehh. The main strikes against him are his bad base stats (especially speed) and bad reclass set, and you're completely avoiding one of those issues. He's probably fairly usable, if you can deal with him not doubling for a while.

For the children you mentioned: Inigo is probably not worth making exist, Olivia has better things to be doing than taking actions which get her married in a timely fashion (dancing for a specific person repeatedly being both too slow and probably not great for making the marriage), not to mention she's likely to pass down unimpressive bases to Inigo and quite late. Brady has kind of a similar issue with pairing Maribelle, but it's more possible since Maribelle has more availability and better stats, plus Brady's chapter is easier. Really any father you're using who uses magic (or has an okay MAG growth like Lon'qu or Virion) would probably work. Laurent... eh, magic father or maybe other useful stats like speed and stuff? I think there are much better gen 1 characters you could use that also give more easily usable kids, like Sumia, Sully, Tharja, Cordelia and others. But that doesn't mean getting like Inigo will be impossible, just awkward and tougher.

The best fathers are Chrom or nobody. Lunatic is easiest when lowmanned, and those children (especially Inigo) aren't really worth getting. Well, Laurent would be if you could reclass him to DM, but you can't.

When you aren't second sealing, lowmanning becomes an absurdly dumb strategy for Lunatic. You'll cap level around like chapter 10, and then things will just get tougher and tougher until you get to a completely ridiculous late game.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Tables

[dailyfiber]

That's definitely a shame. I have read that people think Tharjas pretty OP, but for some reason they don't like Henry?

Why is that? Arent they both DM and even join at a similar level?

[dailyfiber]

I have a fairly good idea for who to use to father a few of the girls, but i got stumped with the 3 boys i mentioned. Inigo seems more trouble than hes worth, but Brady is fairly easy to get. I figured marrying maribelle to someone would be ezpz since shes a mounted healer and all.

[Shadow Mir]

That's definitely a shame. I have read that people think Tharjas pretty OP, but for some reason they don't like Henry?

Why is that? Arent they both DM and even join at a similar level?

It might be because of Henry's atrocious speed base. Also, Tharja likely will have some pretty severe accuracy issues unless you stick her with wind magic.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[XeKr]

Firstly note that no reclassing changes things a lot. Parents are not that viable past the midgame, so you'll probably have to baby the children for a bit (unless you want to rig growths and turtle with Rallies). All the children should be viable, as long as their parents were trained to pass stat and skill inheritance. Especially note Lucina, who may be the only character that will significantly damage the final boss (reliably), so don’t neglect her or her parents.

Virion is okay in regular Lunatic because he can reclass to Wyvern. If not reclassing, however, he’s not that great. Hard to level at first, little payoff (he’s a parent), and can’t pass really good skills. Bowbreaker is okay for a flying child, but that’s pretty far off in no-grind runs.

The best father is probably Gregor because he can pass Sol. Generally Avatar is still a good parent because they can pass Rally Spectrum or Ignis, and Veteran means they can pass higher stats to a early joining child (you don’t have to delay their recruitment to train parents more). Also, because of how Morgan works, it’s the only way to get a Dark Mage or early Manakete (Nah comes in a late and hard paralogue) child. Note that you probably won’t get all the children in no grind runs, because it takes time to grind support points. The earlier you do get them, the easier they are to train, but they have slightly lower 20/20 potential (if not reclassing). And it's certainly worth trying to marry as many pairs as possible, for at least the Paralogue exp.

From what I've noticed: tier lists are mostly dead because veterans (especially many that would post re: tier lists, are knowledgeable about the game, and/or play Lunatic) are mostly concerned with efficient play, which typically means beating the game quickly (low-ish turncounts) and reliably (high-ish success rates). Said lists by Redwall/Miikaya ( http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40676) and PKL (http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42220 ) , are fine for this purpose though ymmv. Discussion typically stagnates on these lists until someone does another somewhat more efficient run of the game and discovers something new/different/interesting they care to argue, which very rarely happens (very few people do so, less of those care, it requires a lot of effort, and generally we’re gotten good at understanding what kinds of characters are good. So just ask.).

A few attempts at other tiering metrics ("good combat/durability" or "making things easy") have fizzled out. The arguments that typically spark thousands of posts of discussion/controversy are generally more tiering philosophy related, which people used to get really mad about but no one really cares to argue anymore (literally argued to death).

For functional purposes, Avatar, having Veteran, is dominant. Frederick+Sumia is incredible earlygame because of his bases and Sumia giving flight+Spd, though Frederick will fall off. Olivia, Libra, Anna are great for Dance and Rescue Staves, 1 turning a huge number of mid/lategame maps or still very useful otherwise. A trained Chrom or Lucina (pass Veteran) does the final boss reliably. Chrom!Morgan gets Veteran and another good skill (possibly Galeforce). Cordelia can get Rally Speed. Or you can Nosferatu/Sol/be a dragon/Wyvern avoidstack and steamroll.

EDIT: for clarity

Edited April 21, 2014 by XeKr