Advice Optimizing for Lunatic+ and Apotheosis

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

I'm pretty far into Lunatic mode (Chapter 22), I have access to all DLC, and growth rates are not an issue as I have a steady supply of power-ups coming from my siblings' Streetpass teams.

[spoiler=The Original Plan]

I have picked a Female Avatar (+Mag -Str) in hopes of creating a Sorceror Morgan.

The pairings I have thus far are:

Chrom x Olivia
Ricken x Miriel
Gregor x Panne
Vaike x Sully

Children Recruited:

Vaike!Kjelle w/ Axefaire
Ricken!Laurent w/ Renewal (I derped and didn't get DS+, but at least it's a unique skill.)
Chrom!Inigo w/ Galeforce

My current plan is to do MU x Laurent for Morgan (passing down Galeforce) and then pair Morgan with Sage Noire. I have NOT figured out whether or not I want Libra, Virion or Kellam as the dad; as those three are the only three fathers Tharja can marry who will pass down the sage class to Noire AND hit a Magic stat of 60 after Limit Break.

Morgan would be running around with +5 Mt Aversa's Night and Noire slapped to his side with Limit Break, Galeforce, Armsthrift, Vantage, and Luna.

I would like to save Kellam for Nowi to make Tank Nah so that limits me to Virion and Libra for fathers for Noire.

However, I've heard no one mention anything for Virion!Noire over any other pairing (there's not a lot of love for Virion) so I am hesitating shipping them together. I also don't want to immediately do Libra!Noire as I've heard a lot of praise for Libra!Owain and Libra!Brady and I don't exactly know what I'm going to do in regards to Maribelle, Sumia, or Lissa as they all kind of want to split Henry and Libra.

Short Version (bolded is done, unbolded is planned)

Chrom x Olivia for Chrom!Inigo w/ Galeforce and Olivia!Lucina
Vaike x Sully for Vaike!Kjelle w/ Axefaire
Ricken x Miriel for Ricken!Laurent w/ Renewal
Gregor x Panne for Berserker Gregor!Yarne w/ Swordbreaker
+Mag, -Str Female Avatar x Laurent for Sorceror Ricken!Laurent!Morgan w/ Galeforce, Renewal
Kellam x Nah for Manakete Nah
Tharja x {Libra, Virion} for Support Sage Noire
Henry x Sumia for Dark Flier Cynthia?
Maribelle x ?
Stahl x Cordelia for Hero Severa?
Frederick x Cherche ?
Lissa x ?

Ricken!Laurent!Morgan x Noire

Assume all units have maxed stats and Limit Break.

Edit (2014-05-15): Well, I guess I'm going to finish out Lunatic since I'm almost done, but I'll be refining my set-up for Lunatic+ and do Apotheosis then.

1) All DLC.

2) Base/Actual Stats can be ignored upon opening up the Outrealms. I don't mind grinding and I have a system to get power-ups from Streetpass teams already in place.

3) I have some 10k+ renown (I don't really use the wireless teams that much).

Edited May 15, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[Czar_Yoshi]

Use Donnel!Kjelle and Gaius!Noire, otherwise they won't have Galeforce and that's just terrible.

Magical Morgan-M's best support is Maribelle!Lucina, followed by Sumia!Lucina, then Chrom!Cynthia and then Henry!Cynthia.

Laurent already gets Renewal. He needs a Vantage father or will be relegated to hard support.

Sorc is outclassed by Sage for Apo. Sages have more Mag, Skl, Spd, and give better pairup bonuses when in the back.

Maribelle only needs a husband without negative Mag. Virion works fine, so does Lon'qu.

Severa's Spd and natural Vengeance are her biggest strengths and Stahl takes advantage of... None of them. Virion!Severa and Lon'qu!Severa can both be Wyvern Lords with enough Spd to double any enemy in the game, and Lon'qu!Severa@Hero makes an excellent dodgetank.

Gerome's best case is having Berserker (Vaike, Gregor or Henry), and if that's not possible Bowfaire for Warrior is decent, but Fred gives neither of those.

Lissa goes with Ricken or Libra.

Just an FYI, Apo doesn't change based on your difficulty.

[shadowofchaos]

Just an FYI, Apo doesn't change based on your difficulty.

At least, except for one mook IIRC with overlooking on hackforged flags, etc.

[tuvarkz]

Yeah but that's tops +8 dmg +20 hit, assuming he even gets to attack you. I sometimes think we need a pinned up thing for stuff that has been overly asked to death in the Awakening forums.

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

Use Donnel!Kjelle and Gaius!Noire, otherwise they won't have Galeforce and that's just terrible.

Magical Morgan-M's best support is Maribelle!Lucina, followed by Sumia!Lucina, then Chrom!Cynthia and then Henry!Cynthia. This kind of statement does not help me. WHY these choices and not something else? A lot of the subjectivity and errors I've had trying to prepare has come from a decent lack of explanation regarding thorough explanations. I'm sure there's one somewhere, but I have not seen it.

Laurent already gets Renewal. He needs a Vantage father or will be relegated to hard support. Laurent does not get Renewal except from inheritance from Miriel. It was not my intention to give him Renewal, but that is a separate discussion.

Sorc is outclassed by Sage for Apo. Sages have more Mag, Skl, Spd, and give better pairup bonuses when in the back.

Maribelle only needs a husband without negative Mag. Virion works fine, so does Lon'qu.

Severa's Spd and natural Vengeance are her biggest strengths and Stahl takes advantage of... None of them. Virion!Severa and Lon'qu!Severa can both be Wyvern Lords with enough Spd to double any enemy in the game, and Lon'qu!Severa@Hero makes an excellent dodgetank.

Gerome's best case is having Berserker (Vaike, Gregor or Henry), and if that's not possible Bowfaire for Warrior is decent, but Fred gives neither of those.

Lissa goes with Ricken or Libra.

Just an FYI, Apo doesn't change based on your difficulty. Didn't know that. I've noticed the other DLC to be harder in Lunatic and haven't played anything else recently. It's not like optimizing for Apotheosis will make the campaign any harder though.

This is a rather long explanation, but I think explaining the decision making process step-by step is important. By doing so, it's more clear why certain decisions are being made and why other other options are preferable.

The goal here is to beat both Lunatic mode and Apotheosis. Note that Lethality and Counter are made obsolete in Apotheosis because of the number of enemies with Dragonskin. Additionally, ALL units we make will have Limit Break to be able to compete at Apotheosis level.

I want to run a Magical Morgan. For the Avatar, this makes the selection of strength and flaw simple: +Magic, - Strength. This has the added benefit of giving the Avatar something unique to do for the first couple of chapters of Frederick Emblem as most of the units you control are melee-based.

Our best chance is to marry a second-generation character to maximize both skills and stats, so this means we have to look at pairings for magical units amongst the first generation before anything else. We do however have to make sure not to gimp the other characters because Morgan will need teammates too.

(Magic) Stat Modifiers:

The biggest thing for Morgan is not skills like every other pairing, but his stats and this is because Morgan inherits 90% of the skills he/she could ever want from the Avatar.

Amongst the girls, Tharja and Miriel have the highest with +3; followed by Maribelle and Lissa with +2.

Amongst the guys, Ricken has the highest with +2; followed by Henry and Libra with +1.

We have twelve choices to pick from ((4 Choose 1) x (3 Choose 1)).

Father!Child: STR/MAG/SKL/SPE/LCK/DEF/RES

Ricken!Noire: 0/+6/0/+2/-1/+1/+1

Ricken!Laurent: -2/+6/+2/+2/-2/+1

Ricken!Brady: -3/+5/+2/+1/+5/-3/+3

Ricken!Owain: -2/+5/+0/+1/+4/-1/+2

Henry!Noire: +2/+5/+2/+2/+3/+0

Henry!Laurent: +0/+5/+4/+2/-1/+0/+0

Henry!Brady: -1/+4/+4/+1/+2/-1/+2

Henry!Owain: +0/+4/+2/+1/+1/+1/+1

Libra!Noire: +1/+5/+1/+2/-3/+2/+2

Libra!Laurent: -1/+5/+3/+2/+0/-1/+2

Libra!Brady: -2/+4/+3/+1/+3/-2/+4

Libra!Owain: -1/+4/+1/+1/+2/+0/+3

Bolded the stats that are the best out of the entire group. Note that Owain does not lead in any stat for any father.

Notes related to Skills:

Before we go and look at what all of these pairings offer, let's look at we're going to want on Morgan first. Because Morgan doesn't really care what skills they inherit from anyone that's not Chrom, Lucina (Aether), Walhart (Conqueror), or Aversa (Shadowgift): they have the Avatar as a parent.

1) Limit Break - DLC tome skill from Rogues & Redeemers 3. +10 to STR, MAG, SKL, SPE, LCK, DEF, and RES stat caps.

2) Galeforce - Dark Flier 15 (Inherit from Female Avatar if Morgan is Male). Once per turn, If you defeat an enemy, move again.

3) Armsthrift - Mercenary 1. Upon activation, the durability of the equipped weapon does not lower. (Lck x 2) % chance to active (guaranteed with Limit Break).

There are several other skills we want: Vantage, Vengeance, Aggressor, Sol, Luna, Astra, Aether, Lifetaker, Tomefaire, Pavise, Dual Guard+, Dual Support+...unfortunately we only get two spots.

Apart from Aether and Aggressor, all of these can come from classes inherited by the Avatar (Dual Support+ may take some clever tweaking if Morgan is Male).

This is admittedly, the first thing I do not know how to handle, because I've never actually played Apotheosis (not having the confidence to do so). I can understand why Tome Selection would influence this (i.e. using Aversa's Night on a Sorceror destroys the need for Lifetaker and Sol for example as they perform the same function).

So my first response is thus:

1) Besides Limit Break, Galeforce, and Armsthrift what other skills does magical Morgan want/need in Apotheosis?

2) Why do you think Maribelle!Lucina is (Male) Morgan's best support?

3) Who is Magical Morgan's (gender unspecified) best support and why?

Edited May 15, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[Raftina]

Lucina x Morgan is the best Morgan

In no restriction Apo runs, most of the damage comes from the support character because of brave+dual strikes.

To achieve 100% dual strike, the pair must have 160 skl (only plausible with 2 snipers) or Dual Strike+ on one character. Achieving 100% DS is far more important than a few points in stats.

The only spouse for Morgan who has DS+ is Lucina. Therefore, Lucina is Morgan's best spouse.

Morgan should be the support

In player phase, a pair can kill 3 units: GF1, GF2, last action. In enemy phase, a pair can kill as many enemies as can reach the pair. Therefore, you should set up the pair for enemy phase combat.

Lucina has much lower offensive stat caps compared to Morgan. She doesn't have access to the high mt cap classes, and she doesn't have TF unless her mother is Maribelle or Sumia. Therefore, her DS isn't as good as Morgan's.

Lucina doesn't have Armthrift unless her mother is FeMU, but FeMU!Lucina can't marry Morgan. Therefore, Lucina doesn't have AT. A support unit without AT can only engage up to 7 units during enemy phase before it is in danger of having the weapon break.

Because Lucina has a much weaker DS and doesn't have AT, she shouldn't be the support. Morgan should be the support.

Other thoughts

Maxing out Morgan is a bad idea because

1. It ties up the 2 strongest units (Lucina and Morgan) into 1 pair.

2. It wastes a Galeforce boy for enemy phase combat.

3. It ruins Chrom's (the force deployed unit who can't be a staffbot or rallybot) combat abilities and makes FeMU weaker.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Raftina

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

Lucina x Morgan is the best Morgan
In no restriction Apo runs, most of the damage comes from the support character because of brave+dual strikes.

To achieve 100% dual strike, the pair must have 160 skl (only plausible with 2 snipers) or Dual Strike+ on one character. Achieving 100% DS is far more important than a few points in stats.

The only spouse for Morgan who has DS+ is Lucina. Therefore, Lucina is Morgan's best spouse.

Morgan should be the support
In player phase, a pair can kill 3 units: GF1, GF2, last action. In enemy phase, a pair can kill as many enemies as can reach the pair. Therefore, you should set up the pair for enemy phase combat.

Lucina has much lower offensive stat caps compared to Morgan. She doesn't have access to the high mt cap classes, and she doesn't have TF unless her mother is Maribelle or Sumia. Therefore, her DS isn't as good as Morgan's.

Lucina doesn't have Armthrift unless her mother is FeMU, but FeMU!Lucina can't marry Morgan. Therefore, Lucina doesn't have AT. A support unit without AT can only engage up to 7 units during enemy phase before it is in danger of having the weapon break.

Because Lucina has a much weaker DS and doesn't have AT, she shouldn't be the support. Morgan should be the support.

Other thoughts
Maxing out Morgan is a bad idea because

1. It ties up the 2 strongest units (Lucina and Morgan) into 1 pair.

2. It wastes a Galeforce boy for enemy phase combat.

3. It ruins Chrom's (the force deployed unit who can't be a staffbot or rallybot) combat abilities and makes FeMU weaker.

Ugh, you're killing me with that last bit.

Okay. If Morgan is not the starting point for Optimizing for Apotheosis, who is?

Edited May 15, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[Raftina]

Actually, it's either Sully or Olivia, because the setup depends on Vantage. Olivia is better for obvious reasons (you can fit GF in Lucina's build).

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

Actually, it's either Sully or Olivia, because the setup depends on Vantage. Olivia is better for obvious reasons (you can fit GF in Lucina's build).

Other thoughts
Maxing out Morgan is a bad idea because

1. It ties up the 2 strongest units (Lucina and Morgan) into 1 pair.

2. It wastes a Galeforce boy for enemy phase combat.

3. It ruins Chrom's (the force deployed unit who can't be a staffbot or rallybot) combat abilities and makes FeMU weaker.

if Morgan isn't where I should start for this, who is? Because a lot of the work I've done was based around Maxing out Morgan.

Edited May 15, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[Czar_Yoshi]

Actually, it's either Sully or Olivia, because the setup depends on Vantage. Olivia is better for obvious reasons (you can fit GF in Lucina's build).

Lucina doesn't get Vengeance and shouldn't lead in any sort of Vantage setup.

1) Besides Limit Break, Galeforce, and Armsthrift what other skills does magical Morgan want/need in Apotheosis?

2) Why do you think Maribelle!Lucina is (Male) Morgan's best support?

3) Who is Magical Morgan's (gender unspecified) best support and why?

Alright, let me explain in more detail.

There are three ways you can go about Apo: killing everything on Player Phase using Galeforce, Luna and Rescue staves (easier, but with an RNG factor), killing everything on PP using Vengeance as an offensive proc instead of Luna (more dangerous but more effective) and killing everything on Enemy Phase with Vantage + Vengeance + 100% DS.

Because magical Morgan is the most powerful male unit in the game who has both Vantage, Vengeance and Galeforce, he makes the ideal husband for Lucina to VV with. He can do other things, he's best at everything, but VV is the hardest thing in the game to be best at so it's generally the best use of his time. Even if he doesn't want to do VV, Lucina has Aether and DS+ which still make her the best female skirmisher so it makes sense to pair her with the best male unit. That's why Morgan x Lucina is preferred.

Generally, his best set is LB/Vantage/Venegance/Tomefaire/Galeforce. Armsthrift is a fine training skill, but it rarely actually helps in Apo (it's the hardest map in the game, what else are you saving your weapons for?). If you don't want to do VV, give him Agg and either Vengeance, Luna or Ignis instead as an offensive proc.

VV is also the reason I recommended giving Laurent a Vantage father, he already has Vengeance and a high Mag mod. He lacks Galeforce though, which can be swapped for Agg or something.

As for Lucina's parentage, Maribelle gives her her highest Mag mod as well as Sage, which both has and gives the highest Mag in the game. Sumia!Lucina still has Sage and has a +5 Spd mod as well for skirmishing, but doesn't have as high of a Mag mod.

Female magical Morgan's best support is usually either Owain/Brady (especially if she's Lucina!Morgan- Avatar can fill much the same role as Morgan can when paired with Lucina, and Morgan gets Aether for skirmishing).

Edited May 16, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Raftina]

Lucina doesn't get Vengeance and shouldn't lead in any sort of Vantage setup.

You vastly underestimate how the asymmetry of support vs lead benefit from stat mods affect Morgan x Lucina.

Ricken!Laurent!Morgan (+mag/-def) sage support

LB/TF/AS+2/Mag+2/AT

46 (base)+10 (mods)+10 (LB)+2 (AS+2)+2 (mag+2)+5 (TF)+10 (rallies)+2 (tonic)+4 (Celica)+5 (forge)+2 (proficiency)=98 mt

Olivia!Lucina dark flier lead

LB/V/DS+/AS+2/GF

42 (base)+1 (mods)+2 (AS+2)+10 (LB)+10 (rallies)+2 (tonic)+4 (Celica)+5 (forge)+2 (proficiency)+3 (pairup)+6 (sage pairup)=87 mt

Lead character has a tome. Therefore, the most dangerous opponent is an Aegis+ target. The most durable moving enemy is the 99 hp, 55 res berserkers on wave 5.

Lucina lead, Morgan support:

2*int(int((87-55)/2)/2)+4*(int(98-55)/2)=100, > 99

if Morgan isn't where I should start for this, who is? Because a lot of the work I've done was based around Maxing out Morgan.

It's fairly straightforward.

Your most powerful tool is DS+, because it guarantees a dual strike occurring. This lets you guarantee a result. You have 2 units with DS+: Chrom and Lucina.

Chrom is a bad rally bot because he only has Rally Skill. He's a bad staff bot because he can't use staves. If you make Chrom marry a wife who is bad a combat, then he will be a mobile convoy. He's force deployed, so one of your slots is a force deployed mobile convoy.

Using 2 with guaranteed results is better than using 1 unit with guaranteed results, because you can now use them to hold enemies in 2 directions instead of 1.

You have 3 strong reasons pointing to this: Your starting point is to use both Chrom and Lucina as combat units.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Raftina

[Czar_Yoshi]

You vastly underestimate how the asymmetry of support vs lead benefit from stat mods affect Morgan x Lucina.

I'm not underestimating anything, I'm using Vengeance, which is more effective and requires less specific pairings.

Avatar (+Mag/-Def), Libra!Owain or any Vantage Laurent (LB/V/V/TF/filler) x Maribelle!Lucina (LB/DS+/TF/GF/All+2)

Avatar's Atk: 46(base) +4(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +5(TF) +2(tonic) +9(Sage) +11(Celica's) +42(Vengeance) =139 -58 /4 =20 x2.

Lucina's Atk: 46(base) +3(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +5(TF) +2(All+2) +2(tonic) +11(Celica's) =89 -58 /2 =15 x4.

20+15+15+20+15+15 =100 as well, however I'm a) attacking the one on the throne, and b) any +Mag Avatar, Libra!Owain, and any Vantage Laurent work here- no need to waste Morgan's Galeforce on being hard support. Libra!Inigo also works though he needs to run All+2 in the last slot (Owain can use Galeforce). In Avatar and Laurent's cases, All+2/Mag+2 give them enough wiggle room with Vengeance's setup to have up to 7HP left and still work.

[Raftina]

I'm not underestimating anything, I'm using Vengeance, which is more effective and requires less specific pairings.

Ah yes, the classic fallacy of "more damage=more effective." But you've failed to address 3 points:

1. You are using Maribelle!Lucina as the support, which is less effective than Morgan as the support.

2. The narrowness of the pairing is irrelevant, because I proposed having Lucina lead specifically in answer to what makes the best Morgan. The best Morgan is unquestionably one that is married to Lucina.

3. You can't ORKO the throne berserker reliably with that setup. You must drop GF.

(64*3+65)/2+30=158

43 (base)+3 (mod)+10 (LB)+10 (rally)+2 (tonic)+2 (AS+2)=68 skl

45 (base)+5 (mod)+10 (LB)+10 (rally)+2 (tonic)+2 (AS+2)=72 luk

(68*3+72)/2+80 (Celica)+15 (forge)+5 (proficiency)=238

238-158=80

0.8^4=41% chance to ORKO,

Edited May 16, 2014 by Raftina

[MelonGx]

Extension:

Olivia!Lucina Dark Flier lead

LB/V/DS+/GF/filler

42+1(mods)+10(LB)+10(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+11(Celica)+3(General Pairup)=79 ATK

41+3(mods)+10(LB)+10(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+3(General Pairup)=69 SKL

45+2(mods)+10(LB)+6(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+3(General Pairup)=68 LCK

(69*3+68)/2+95+15(Dual Support)=247 HIT

(If no Rally Skl, then 247-4*3/2=241.)

VS Berserker: 247-128=119 (If it's Throne Berserker, then 119-20=99.)

VS Anna: 247-137=110

VS Sniper: 247-135=112

VS Sorcerer: 247-139=108

VS Lck70-Sorc: 247-117=130

Vaike!Gerome!Morgan General support

LB/Axefaire/All+2/AT/Hit+20

50+11(mods)+10(LB)+10(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+18(Brave Axe)+5(Axefaire)+2(All+2)=108 ATK

41+3(mods)+10(LB)+10(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+2(All+2)=68 SKL

45-1(mods)+10(LB)+6(Rallies)+2(Tonic)+2(All+2)=64 LCK

(68*3+64)/2+75+20=229 HIT

(If no Rally Skl, then 229-4*3/2=223.)

VS Berserker: 229+10-128=111 (If it's Throne Berserker, then 111-20=91.)

VS Anna: 229+10+15-137=117

VS Sniper: 229+10-135=104

VS Sorcerer: 229+10-139=100

VS Lck70-Sorc: 229+10-117=122

Damage=[(79-55)/2]/2*2+(108-64)/2*4=6*2+22*4=100>99

(If tanking Throne Berserker, then damage=[(79-58)/2]/2*2+(108-67)/2*4=5*2+20*4=90<99.

In other word, we need both Str+2 and Barrack's Str+4 on VGM to 6HKO the Throne Berserker.)

(64*3+65)/2+30=158

Throne's Avo boost is +20. Edited May 16, 2014 by MelonGx

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ah yes, the classic fallacy of "more damage=more effective." But you've failed to address 3 points:

1. You are using Maribelle!Lucina as the support, which is less effective than Morgan as the support.

2. The narrowness of the pairing is irrelevant, because I proposed having Lucina lead specifically in answer to what makes the best Morgan. The best Morgan is unquestionably one that is married to Lucina.

3. You can't ORKO the throne berserker reliably with that setup. You must drop GF.

(64*3+65)/2+30=158

43 (base)+3 (mod)+10 (LB)+10 (rally)+2 (tonic)+2 (AS+2)=68 skl

45 (base)+5 (mod)+10 (LB)+10 (rally)+2 (tonic)+2 (AS+2)=72 luk

(68*3+72)/2+80 (Celica)+15 (forge)+5 (proficiency)=238

238-158=80

0.8^4=41% chance to ORKO,

You forgot True Hit. Since Lucina is also 1 damage over target, a 4/20 Celica's can be used instead, and Thrones are only +20 Avo. Assuming listed Hit is 95, True Hit is 99.55%. That's a 98.21% chance to ORKO. If for whatever reason you need more than that, Thronie doesn't move so it's pretty easy to have Chrom stand around with his Charm.

Morgan works for this set too, in case you hadn't noticed.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Raftina]

Throne as 20 avd would be 90 hit, not 95 hit. Charm would only boost it to 95.

If Morgan is used to satisfy a shortcoming, then versatility is no longer an advantage.

Here is where Vantage alone is superior to VV: Drink elixir. Tank a hit. ORKO with 4 strikes. Back to below 50% hp with no loss of effectiveness.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Since Lucina is also 1 damage over target, a 4/20 Celica's can be used instead, and Thrones are only +20 Avo.

I transferred 1 point of mt on Celica's into +Hit, so it's now 95.

Against non-boss enemies, Vengeance won't make much of a difference on killing power, true- but it's not much of a hindrance either.

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

It's fairly straightforward.

Your most powerful tool is DS+, because it guarantees a dual strike occurring. This lets you guarantee a result. You have 2 units with DS+: Chrom and Lucina.

Chrom is a bad rally bot because he only has Rally Skill. He's a bad staff bot because he can't use staves. If you make Chrom marry a wife who is bad a combat, then he will be a mobile convoy. He's force deployed, so one of your slots is a force deployed mobile convoy.

Using 2 with guaranteed results is better than using 1 unit with guaranteed results, because you can now use them to hold enemies in 2 directions instead of 1.

You have 3 strong reasons pointing to this: Your starting point is to use both Chrom and Lucina as combat units.

All right, well for starters, they're going to want Limit Break...and Aether...and Dual Strike+...and Rightful King. They're all really nice skills...

Lucina is going to want Galeforce if we can give it to her. Which means Sully is not her mom.

Chrom is going to want Luna, I guess since he doesn't really have anything better to do...besides Pavise. And it's probably easier to just keep him out of harm's way than letting him tank stuff.

Of all of Chrom's classes, Paladin and Bow Knight have the best mobility, and Paladin has nice support bonuses so I guess that explains what he's doing in all of his.

Chrom - Paladin: Limit Break, Dual Strike+, Rightful King, Aether, Luna.

Lucina - ???? : Limit Break, Dual Strike+, Rightful King, Aether, Galeforce

So, from there the question would be Sumia, Maribelle, or Olivia for Lucina's mother; and Lucina's final class.

Edited May 17, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[Czar_Yoshi]

RK isn't actually that good, particularly if you only have one proc. Replace it with Agg on Chrom and Luna on Lucina and watch both their average damage output skyrocket.

Since Chrom doesn't have Galeforce, he also has utility staying as a hard support, in which case he needs no procs- All+2 and Charm are suitable replacements. Chrom's best use of procs is as a Sniper, thanks to his Aether/Luna (and DS+) he's one of the best Double Bow users in the game. He's still useable as a main combatant, but he's only a hair above all the other galeforce/VV lacking males.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Raftina]

How to optimize Chrom and Lucina

Use Chrom as hard support

Chrom does not have impressive tools for the front, because he doesn't have Galeforce, Vantage, or Vengeance. He can be the front character for the second action because he has Aether and Luna, but that is not particularly impressive and does not take advantage of his rare strength of guaranteeing dual strike without double sniper/assassin. When Chrom is in front, the loss of 2 applications of Aggressor means his mean damage output isn't really higher than a Luna wife.

Aether+RFK is a poor combo for 3 reasons: 1. It does not synergize with the guaranteed result theme DS+ offers. 2. It has lower mean damage than Aether+Luna. 3. It's not reliable even if we don't demand 100% results.

The solution is to configure Chrom for hard support and give up using him in front.

Use sniper or GK for support

As a magic user, Chrom lacks Tomefaire, and dread fighter has a mag cap of 38. It's a very poor support class.

Chrom's highest str class is GK, but he doesn't have any of the Faires, putting his mt at 48+other modifiers. Sniper with Bowfaire is at 46+other modifiers. GK has very low skl cap and will most likely need to run Hit +20 in the Bowfaire slot, and you don't give a skl bonus to the front character.

Your choice is between +2-3 mt and +1 mov for GK or +5 skl for sniper. Personally, I prefer the sniper route because it improves the front character's accuracy.

Use Chrom x FeMU

As I mentioned before, your ability to kill during enemy phase is far higher than your ability to kill during player phase, provided that you can get a setup that is capable of killing during enemy phase.

Chrom does not have very high support damage output, because he has only +1 str, +0 mag, and not much in the way of high str/mag classes or Faire access. This means it falls to his wife to have good front damage output.

If you want reliable enemy phase combat with a low damage output support, then the front character has to run Vantage+Vengeance. That leaves only 1 wife: FeMU.

Setup:

Chrom: sniper, Brave Bow (5/15), LB/DS+/BF/AS+2/Agg

FeMU: dark flier, Celica's Gale (5/15), LB/V/V/TF/<free> I prefer GF in the last slot.

Enemies that this pair cannot kill:

Enemy phase: 64 def/55 res berserkers, 70 def/46 res sniper (4 total, all round 5)

Player phase: boss berserker (you can use this pair to kill the boss berserker if you wish. Just have Chrom use a range 3 bow)

Because you have 4 enemies that you can't kill during enemy phase but can during player phase, I prefer running Aggressor and Galeforce over skills that would marginally improve VV.

Effect this has on Lucina

Lucina has access to VV and can lead. This leaves a few possibilities:

1. Lucina marries an AT user. This allows you to not worry about having your weapon break on you.

2. Lucina marries a high mod Gerome, Laurent, or Yarne. This allows you to have a pair that is comparable to Lucina x 3rd gen Morgan without committing Morgan to Lucina.

Effect this has on the rest of your army

You will have 1 gen 2 male who can't marry because FeMU married gen 1. This is fine.

FeMU marries gen 2:

You deploy up to 7 gen 2 pairs. You have 2 rally bots and 3 staff bots (+2 staff bots per combat pair you choose to skip). You have Chrom force deployed as a mobile convoy and possibly Olivia as a dancer for your best player phase pair.

FeMU marries Chrom:

You deploy up to 6 gen 2 pairs and Chrom x FeMU. You have 2 rally bots and 4 staff bots (+2 staff bots per combat pair you choose to skip). You have possibly Olivia as a dancer for your best player phase pair. Chrom is still available as a convoy.

Chrom x FeMU means you have a better combat component because you have 2 pairs with VVDS+ (100% dual strike and 100% damage proc for guaranteed results). You also have a better support component because you can deploy 1 more staff bot (replacing Chrom).

Other thoughts

Regarding support bonuses, in general, +str/mag as a pair bonus is not as important as having a higher str/mag cap on the support character itself. This is because 1. brave effect allows the support character to attack twice as often as the front character and 2. dual strikes bypass pavise/aegis. Paladin is a poor class choice for Chrom because he can get better mt as a bow knight, which turns out to give similar damage on the pair. This means the higher skl/spd and mov bonus on the BK is better.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Raftina

[4Dam PKMN Master Nappa]

Aether+RFK is a poor combo for 3 reasons: 1. It does not synergize with the guaranteed result theme DS+ offers. 2. It has lower mean damage than Aether+Luna. 3. It's not reliable even if we don't demand 100% results.

The solution is to configure Chrom for hard support and give up using him in front.

RK isn't actually that good, particularly if you only have one proc. Replace it with Agg on Chrom and Luna on Lucina and watch both their average damage output skyrocket.

I listed both Aether AND Luna. With RFK and consuming a Skill Tonic/Tiki's Tear pre-battle, Chrom has 53 Skill as a Paladin reaches a 36% of Aether going off, followed by a 40.32% of just Luna (64% of Aether not proccing, 63% of Luna proccing) for a total of 76.32%

As a Sniper, Chrom hits 61 Skill from a Skill Tonic/Tiki's Tear. 40% chance for Aether, 42.6% of Aether failing but Luna Activating, 82.6% of either activating, 17.4% of both failing.

Both of these are assuming Limit Break and Rightful King. I don't know how the damage from these compares, but I don't think that even at his highest damage Chrom can hold a candle to Owain, Brady, Inigo, and Morgan-M all of whom are running around with the Trifecta of Galeforce, Limit Break, AND Aggressor.

I agree that Chrom is not your main source of damage and that should be made to favor mobility because 1)Him dying is Game Over 2)He is at least useful as a convoy but LB and DS+ are tied pretty hard to his success as a support. I don't think tailoring him to combat in Apotheosis is the best idea, even if it can be pulled off. That would mean making him competitive for general L+ play, which has generally lower standards. Chrom basically just needs to be able to move and be there.

...I guess it depends on whether or not Chrom is leading or supporting. If Dual Strikes do hit through Pavise+ and Aegis+, and Chrom is supporting, he has no need for the the Sol part of aether and the higher proc rate of Luna is preferred so you could drop Aether.

LB, DS+, Luna, Aggressor, <insert fifth skill here>

Edited May 17, 2014 by 4Dam PKMN Master Nappa

[tuvarkz]

I listed both Aether AND Luna. With RFK and consuming a Skill Tonic/Tiki's Tear pre-battle, Chrom has 53 Skill as a Paladin reaches a 36% of Aether going off, followed by a 40.32% of just Luna (64% of Aether not proccing, 63% of Luna proccing) for a total of 76.32%

As a Sniper, Chrom hits 61 Skill from a Skill Tonic/Tiki's Tear. 40% chance for Aether, 42.6% of Aether failing but Luna Activating, 82.6% of either activating, 17.4% of both failing.

Both of these are assuming Limit Break and Rightful King. I don't know how the damage from these compares, but I don't think that even at his highest damage Chrom can hold a candle to Owain, Brady, Inigo, and Morgan-M all of whom are running around with the Trifecta of Galeforce, Limit Break, AND Aggressor.

I agree that Chrom is not your main source of damage and that should be made to favor mobility because 1)Him dying is Game Over 2)He is at least useful as a convoy but LB and DS+ are tied pretty hard to his success as a support. I don't think tailoring him to combat in Apotheosis is the best idea, even if it can be pulled off. That would mean making him competitive for general L+ play, which has generally lower standards. Chrom basically just needs to be able to move and be there.

...I guess it depends on whether or not Chrom is leading or supporting. If Dual Strikes do hit through Pavise+ and Aegis+, and Chrom is supporting, he has no need for the the Sol part of aether and the higher proc rate of Luna is preferred so you could drop Aether.

LB, DS+, Luna, Aggressor, <insert fifth skill here>

Yeah, but with his pairup pretty much having Galeforce all the time, chrom is best setup as LB/DS+/Agressor/Hit +20/All+2 if Brave Axe DF or Bowfaire if Sniper

[Czar_Yoshi]

Your Chrom is a Paladin with LB/DS+/Aether/RK/Luna. He doesn't have Agg. I can't find my calculator or I'd do a quick damage comparison, but the basic idea is that for a 10% boost to Luna's activation to outdamage a permanent +10 damage, your foe would have to have 200 Def, and even then it would be an average and Agg is both more reliable and distributing that boost over many enemies is better than having it target just one, randomly. Even if the boost applies to both Aether and Luna, the Def threshold for it to be worth it is well over 100.