General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) So there was some discussion in this draft: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47891 about a draft that would include Seth in some shape or form. Honestly, as broken as he is, Franz and Vanessa get so many levels they become his equal (or better in Vanessa's case) in a relatively short amount of time, so it might be fair? Idk. Here's some stuff that was said for easy of access: Doing some quick research, a killer Franz can reduce the count to ~12 turns. Not that much but it all adds up. I have been wondering how Seth being free for a while would affect the balance of the units. Compared to FE7, which has HNM as the standard, a lot of early units come in the second chapter, a lord who can handle being on his own better, and many free training chapters, it seems strange that Marcus is the Jeigan that's free. I think having Seth as a draftable unit that can start being used in chapter 9 would be fair, because whoever doesn't have Franz/Vanessa just gets slaughtered in that chapter. Joshua is really good against the sniper too, but I guess he can't lure him very well. He wouldn't be any stronger than Franz at that point and would be worse than Vanessa. Maybe even usable in chapter 8. That still shafts the 4th pick though, although if you're 4th pick in a standard FE8 draft, you're pretty much SOL anyway. The problem with having free Seth for the first 10 chapters is it's like half the game where people are going to have similar turn counts, and it doesn't prevent Franz and Vanessa from stomping, they do even better with Seth. ^ Call me crazy, but even if Seth were draftable and useable for every map, I would still 1st pick Vanessa. I suppose drafting Seth means that you get a non Saleh/Artur/Lute warper, and no flier (maybe Cormag I guess). Maybe a test is in order? Although 4th pick still gets boned. 4th pick is always boned. Clearly Franz and Vanessa should be draftable twice or something. I think free Seth would just make first and second pick stronger, so unless someone has a convincing arguement for that, it's not a good idea. I don't think Marcus should be free in FE7 either, it actually devalues Florina a bit as a first pick (or any of the fliers really, good early units, especially Lowen become fairly attractive alternatives in this case) Seth as a draftable unit starting use in chapter 9 would be an ok idea I think, but I think people would still prefer to take someone like Artur or Tana before him, they might do more overall, and does it really change the fact that the first two picks have a huge advantage? The fact that Hawk King says he'd still take Vanessa suggests that Seth wouldn't be totally broken to be a draftable unit - he's shown that he's very competant at the game so his words should have some meaning - but there's still the scenerio of having 4th pick be really weak, since there'd only be three early mounts. SB suggested that having Franz or Vanessa be draftable twice might help remedy this, but it also makes 4th pick a bit stronger relatively speaking, but I think it actually balances things out fairly nicely? I've drafted up a set of rules that I think are worth discussing: Personally I think Seth would still be broken, but you never know unit you try I guess. Drafting:1. This draft is for 4 players.2. Eirika/Ephraim, Orson, Tethys, and Myrrh are free for all to use.3. The game will be played on Hard Mode. 4. One of Franz/Vanessa/Seth is avaliable to be drafted for the fourth draftee. They can choose not to select them, but that'd be some new meta drafting strategy. 5. One unit will remain undrafted, unless I suck at counting. Rules:1. Undrafted units may recruit characters, rescue undrafted units and NPCs, trade, visit Shops and Armories and dig up items in the desert.2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, building Supports, and opening Doors or Chests.3. Map shopping is allowed.4. Skirmishes/use of the Tower or Ruins is disallowed, with the exception of the training of trainees. Skirmishes that are blocking your path may be activated and immediately fled from.5. Defend chapters count the last played Player Phase for turns if the timer is waited out. 6. Amelia can be trained to level 10/1 in the tower, Ewan can be trained to 10/5 because he's a chump. Penalties:1. Undrafted units have a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter.Teams:eclipse: Vanessa, Lute, Kyle, Gerik, Natasha, Knoll, Rennac General Horace: Seth, Artur, Garcia, Gilliam, Innes, Joshua, Syrene ZM: Franz, Tana, DA BOULDA, Colm, Neimi, Dozla, Amelia Mar Mar: Vanessa, Saleh, Ross, Forde, Duessel, L'Arachel, Ewan MarisaCormag If you have any suggestions, throw them out there. Edited June 1, 2014 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) I suck at FE8 drafting, but I'm in~! EDIT: Hit me over the head via PM if you decide to use me, and it's my turn. Edited June 1, 2014 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I'm kinda retired from drafting in general and kinda don't want to play Vanilla Fe8. But I'll be following this for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Gotta take advantage of all the drafts now before they start to disappear again, in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 In! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 So everyone's cool with the rules? I forgot to include the trainee training, Amelia to 10/1, Ewan to 10/5. Cool? if anyone has any complaints, yell! (man this draft filled up fast like the old days) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Maybe we should let 2 people get Seth for the sake of this draft, since we're experimenting with him? Idk your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 We could allow the 4th person to have a choice of Franz/Vanessa/Seth, I think that might be a little too strong to have though. It is a test draft though, lets allow it! you totally said that because you're 4th pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Ah, I remember when we got yelled at for having way too many drafts started. Good times. I had the idea of Seth being draftable and can be used from Chapter 9 on for a while, but I never said anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I was pretty much assuming that I'd wind up with Franz regardless because the 2 Seths and Vanessa/2 Vanessas and a Seth would go first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I should have been more clear on the double seth/vanessa/franz rule they all must be drafted once before the second one can be drafted, so more or less 4th pick gets a choice of who they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 WOW! Thanks, Horace~! Grabbing Vanessa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 I'll take the one and only (?) Silver Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I have a question. What if I didn't pick Franz and wanted someone else? I have an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 So, is Seth only available after C9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Also, with the current rules, the one that has Franz by default can pick him as last pick if he so desires. EDIT: welp. Double post. Saw "new reply added" so i figured i wasnt double posting. Guess I was wrong. Edited June 1, 2014 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 stop making me think >.< I'd say that if you didn't take Franz, it'd leave the 4th pick open to take Franz and either Seth and Vanessa. Seth's avaliable for the whole game PKL. It's probably broken, but I expected him to go first so that the rest of your team would be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Whoa, what? >_> I thought that if I didn't get Franz and Marthipan does, then I'd be the one that could pick between the three. Forgive me, I just wanted Tana. ._. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 but I want Vanessa and Tana... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Whoa, what? >_> I thought that if I didn't get Franz and Marthipan does, then I'd be the one that could pick between the three. Forgive me, I just wanted Tana. ._. I think having a guaranteed Franz/Nessa pick even as last is kinda OP. Franz/Nessa going like Ewan here. Last of last. Edited June 1, 2014 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Marth Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I think Horace intended on having the 4th drafter pick Franz/Nessa first round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 1. I misread the rules (thought Seth would be usable after Chapter 8). 2. . . .but I figured since I'm not the best at FE8, I might as well make someone else's life hell by nabbing Vanessa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) OK THINGS I THINK ARE SETTLED OUT I DIDN'T THINK OF POSSIBLE EXPLOITS The fourth person in the first round has a choice of Franz/Vanessa/Seth. If they don't take them then, they lose their opportunity. If one of Franz/Vanessa/Seth hasn't been drafted by the time their turn rolls around, they can take whichever one hasn't been picked (like if ZM wanted Tana, Mar Mar could take Franz and one of Seth/Vanessa). Edited June 1, 2014 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) I think Horace intended on having the 4th drafter pick Franz/Nessa first roundYeah, that's what I figured. But I thought it'd be cool if I could nab Tana, you pick who you want, then I'd nab Seth/Franz/Vanessa on the way back up. But from what I'm seeing, if I did that, then you'd get Franz AND Seth/Vanessa, which would be crazy OP.So...should I just take Franz and move on? Edited June 1, 2014 by ZM© Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Since this is a semi-experiment draft, do you mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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