Anyone ever notice?

[Torva]

It's always bothered me that one of the most powerful abilites in the game, Ignis, kind of resembles a Nazi symbol.

And no, I'm not here to try to call FEA racist or anything, and it's one of the few games that's ever come under fire for this sort of thing. I just couldn't help but see it, though.

It bothered me even more when the first person who got this (on my playthrough, anyway) was Morgan (What? I didn't train my guy that much...), and when she uses Ignis while using a tome, she holds out her hand that kind of looks like a Hitler solute.

Again, I am NOT calling this game racist, and I bring this up out of intrest, because no one else seems to have noticed that. Pokemon has had a similar situation, and it didn't take long to have it noticed. Why this one is still seemingly undetected is beyond me, but whatever.

And yes. I DO know that the original symbol was a symbol for peace and good luck. I am fine with this the whole way, and I do believe the actions that took place during WW2 were simply evil.

So, what do you guys think? I am prepared for hate comments and thread locks.

[Knight]

The manji is a more popular symbol in Japan, it's a Buddhist symbol that resembles the Swastika, but I always thought it was just a generic swirl of fire. Also Hitler solute? I very much doubt it, just raising your arm doesn't count, there's a posture and angle you have to get and I think most spellcsaters just point their arm at the target they want dead. (haven't seen the specified animation though) It's not as bad as Registeel.

I think you may be putting to much thought into it, believe it or not, most game developers aren't neo-nazis.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Knight

[Torva]

The manji is a more popular symbol in Japan, it's a Buddhist symbol that resembles the Swastika, but I always thought it was just a generic swirl of fire. Also Hitler solute? I very much doubt it, just raising your arm doesn't count, there's a posture and angle you have to get and I think most spellcsaters just point their arm at the target they want dead. (haven't seen the specified animation though) It's not as bad as Registeel.

The pose she takes is her holding out her arm, with her fingers pointed outword. It's not the same thing, but it DOES resemble the salute.

[Knight]

The pose she takes is her holding out her arm, with her fingers pointed outword. It's not the same thing, but it DOES resemble the salute.

By that logic, me waving hello to my friends makes me salute Hitler. (or Julius Caesar technically)

[Torva]

And I'm not calling anyone a Neo-Nazi, I'm simply pointing something out I found of intrest.

[Knight]

And I'm not calling anyone a Neo-Nazi, I'm simply pointing something out I found of intrest.

I was just joking, but I very much doubt this was their intention.

[Torva]

I doubt so too, and as with many other games, they were accidents.

[Skynstein]

I doubt it was the devs intention. Once, I waved my hand on the street to my black friends and a bum said I was doing the Nazi salute (I'm blonde), which was obviously not my intention since they were my friends from college. Misinterpretations do happen.

What did you see in Pokémon that was Nazi related? I thought only the Christians had problems with the game (Houndoom being satanic, for example).

EDIT: Oh it was Registeel sprite. Well, Registeel can't move his arm in any other way...

Edited June 18, 2014 by Bird Jesus

[Torva]

I doubt it was the devs intention. Once, I waved my hand on the street to my black friends and a bum said I was doing the Nazi salute (I'm blonde), which was obviously not my intention since they were my friends from college. Misinterpretations do happen.

What did you see in Pokémon that was Nazi related? I thought only the Christians had problems with the game (Houndoom being satanic, for example).

EDIT: Oh it was Registeel sprite. Well, Registeel can't move his arm in any other way...

I dunno, those things look a lot like Tangaroth's arms...and if any Pokemon can move, it's Tangaroth.

[AMCC4728]

You're seeing things that aren't there. All spellcasters have that animation and ignis' symbol is a spiral of fire.

[RJWalker]

Fuck the Nazi's for corrupting our ancient Hindu symbol.

[Dragonslayer9x]

Symbols and gestures only have the values that people and cultures impart on them. As an example the "V" for victory hand gesture is an extreme insult in some cultures (if I remember correctly Australia) as it stems from a time when enemy soldiers would taunt the opposition by showing that they still had the fingers required to shoot a bowstring (it was common to have those fingers cut off if you were ever captured).

The symbol you are recognizing has a different cultural meaning in Japan.

[bookofholsety]

It bothered me even more when the first person who got this (on my playthrough, anyway) was Morgan (What? I didn't train my guy that much...), and when she uses Ignis while using a tome, she holds out her hand that kind of looks like a Hitler solute.

this is the part that stands out to me as the most baffling part of the claim (and considering the entire thing is baffling, that's saying something)

what's the most obvious criterion of any salute, including the nazi one, that makes it distinct from unintentionally and briefly flashing whatever pose it entails? the pose is held for a few seconds. it's pretty obvious that whatever morgan/any grandmaster does, it's not that. the motion done in fe13 has far more in common with briefly throwing or waving as some kind of activation of the whole ignis magic thing, and isn't even remotely close to the sustained straight arm-holding of a nazi salute. hell, i'd argue the angle of the arm-rise is all wrong, in much the same way nobody would ever construe an arm raised to hail a taxi or bus as a nazi salute

[Loki Laufeyson]

Fuck the Nazi's for corrupting our ancient Hindu symbol.

and ancient runes. Ill never ever forgive what they did to Othala. D:<

OP, i just...i dont even understand what you are getting at. I dont even see the manji when i see Ignis. I see blue flames. When Ignis procs, the imagery is all cherry blossoms. So i just..

[Logience]

Wow, you're ridiculously sensitive. I bet you'd probably be unconfortable with FF's Holy being called Holy instead of Pearl.

[shadowofchaos]

Yeah, I don't see it.

If you squint, that shading... maybe?

But damn... seeing what you want to see.

When Ignis procs, the imagery is all cherry blossoms. So i just..

Kanji:

華炎

華 - Usually associated with cherry blossoms/beauty/magnificent

炎 - Flame/blaze

and when she uses Ignis while using a tome, she holds out her hand that kind of looks like a Hitler solute.

Really?

...you really need to stop seeing what you want to see.

Edited June 18, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Elieson]

Yeah, I don't see it.

If you squint, that shading... maybe?

But damn... seeing what you want to see.

...you really need to stop seeing what you want to see.

I'm with Rey on this one.

Holding your arm straight outwards does not make one German.

Ignis looks more like a swirling...i dunno, fan/pinwheel to me then a swastika

[Interceptor]

It's always bothered me that one of the most powerful abilites in the game, Ignis, kind of resembles a Nazi symbol.

If it actually resembled a swastika, they would have changed it in the German localization, considering that it's illegal to display them there. It'd take you less than a minute to look for a German LP, and note that they haven't changed either the symbol or the animation.

/fin

[Chiki]

You see this often in Japanese-made things.

[Torva]

Wow, you're ridiculously sensitive. I bet you'd probably be unconfortable with FF's Holy being called Holy instead of Pearl.

My god, you people are overreacting. For some reason, when I point this out, people just assume I'm calling this game racist, which, for about the third time now, I am not. For the last time, this is something I noticed, and found as interesting.

this is the part that stands out to me as the most baffling part of the claim (and considering the entire thing is baffling, that's saying something)

what's the most obvious criterion of any salute, including the nazi one, that makes it distinct from unintentionally and briefly flashing whatever pose it entails? the pose is held for a few seconds. it's pretty obvious that whatever morgan/any grandmaster does, it's not that. the motion done in fe13 has far more in common with briefly throwing or waving as some kind of activation of the whole ignis magic thing, and isn't even remotely close to the sustained straight arm-holding of a nazi salute. hell, i'd argue the angle of the arm-rise is all wrong, in much the same way nobody would ever construe an arm raised to hail a taxi or bus as a nazi salute

Also, she holds her arm out in a straight position that is almost flat, but tilted slightly upwards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the Hitler solute. And I am NOT saying she is doing it, I'm saying it looks like it.

People are overreacting way too much over all this...

[Chiki]

I agree that the Japanese should be more sensitive of symbols like this. It looks ridiculous to us when Ichigo is fighting with a swastika.

[Logience]

My god, you people are overreacting. For some reason, when I point this out, people just assume I'm calling this game racist, which, for about the third time now, I am not. For the last time, this is something I noticed, and found as interesting.

No one in the thread said that we think you're assuming FE13 is racist. What we ARE assuming, however, is that you are oversensitive and are purposely trying to find something to take offense at in everything you possibly can.

Look at the image posted here: http://perezstart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/level3-300x255.gif

Does it look like a swastika? Yes. Is it harming anyone? No.

Then there's the weapon from FE4, called the Swanchika. Does it sound like swastika? Yes. Is it harming anyone by being called that? No.

Then there's this little image here:

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/e/e7/Spr_4d_379.png

Yes, it looks like a Nazi salute. But it's not. It's just an unlucky coincidence. The only people who could possibly be harmed by them are people who deliberately TRY to take offense at it. Hell, I would have never noticed the similarity if the internet didn't take notice. And now that I do, I actually make even less of a deal over it. It's just a pose.

Overzealous persons like you who take offense to every little aspect of everything are the reason why racism and prejudices exist. Just ignore it, and no one will get hurt.

You know what I see in Ignis' symbol? A cool spiral. You know what I see in their prep animation? A cool handwave. Nothing more. I don't need to think about it. Nothing is telling me to. LET. IT. GO.

[Skynstein]

My guess is that the OP would have a heart attack if he/she played Wolfenstein.

(Ok, not really, but there's nothing harmful about the Ignis symbol)

[Moira]

I just don't think its entirely necessary to point out, because it's so trivial. Of course, forums are home to many trivial things.

[Integrity]

If it actually resembled a swastika, they would have changed it in the German localization, considering that it's illegal to display them there. It'd take you less than a minute to look for a German LP, and note that they haven't changed either the symbol or the animation.

/fin

This should have closed the thread, tbh. It's not a swastika, and Morgan's little jig doesn't even look like a Nazi salute. Honest.

EDIT: I'll go into a little detail:

Germans are really sensitive about that stuff. It won't make it through their system, not even as a fluke. It's pretty clear-cut that if the German ratings board didn't consider it Nazi imagery, it is not Nazi imagery. Anything else is just one's mind seeing what's not there.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Integrity