Dragon Quest

[Tangerine]

Don't get me wrong. The game is quite good but the amount of crypticness and item hunting and the insane amount of grinding needed to just be able to survive some bosses gets ridiculous really quickly. Then there's the fact that you stop getting job points once you hit a certain level until a certain point in the game so grinding too much can get you into hot water.

I think this has more to do with you not knowing much about the game than anything else. DQ7 doesn't require grinding, people have beaten it with only basic job progression in low level games, solo games, monsters only and various other challenges. You have a choice in how to play DQ7, you can either grind a lot and overpower things or you can learn what bosses do and what classes are ideal for handling them (this is obviously a turn off for people who don't like not being able to beat a boss the first try). Even the basic jobs have skills that are worth using at various points in the game, if you have a solid class plan and fight every battle you get into, you are generally not going to have issues. It's not for people new to class-based RPGs, but the classes are pretty straightfoward and anyone familiar with that type of system will have a general idea of what they should focus on first.

My only real issue with the level/class system is the early-game before they're unlocked, because you really don't want to overlevel or fight too many battles without having gotten your classes yet.

It can be tough to figure out what to do sometimes, but you have to be in the mood to play DQ7 anyway. It doesn't hold your hand and tell you where to go, you have to explore, talk to people and figure it out yourself. People who use guides for everything and don't do this are the ones who feel like they have to grind, because they basically end up doing a low level challenge; the game was never intended to be rushed through, it wants you to figure things out and takes that into account with the enemies and bosses lategame.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tangerine

[Nightmare]

What you're saying basically confirms Ein's point though. He never denied the quality of the game, but it sounds to me like it's a game that's not very user-friendly and accessible. There's the whole "it's good if it does what it intends to" which is true, but I think on a grander scale you'll find it has a niche market because it's so specifically tailored and that the rest of the series never followed suit. Kind of like IWBTG, actually.

[Tangerine]

How does it have a niche market? It outsold FF7 in Japan when FF7 was at the height of its popularity on PS1, by over 1 million units no less (Also the best selling game in that entire console generation in Japan..). It's the 3rd best selling DQ game of all time, behind only VIII and IX. That's not niche.

It doesn't hold your hand, and using a guide to get around this quickly is generally why people feel they have to grind to get past certain areas. I don't see how not telling you exactly what to do (despite having obvious clues if you talk to people or use the fortune teller, but people don't talk to NPCs in RPGs anymore lol) is a slight against the game, it's just a different style. I didn't find it ridiculous; I got it on release when I was like 12 and I was able to beat it without a guide or even knowing how to get the hidden classes.

It's not easy and it requires at least some thought in class progression and equipment options. Some parts of the story can be obtuse, but overall it's not that difficult to get through unless you are impatient and not in the mood to explore or talk to people**. It's also one of the hardest games to 100% without a guide, but I don't see that as an issue as long as the story can be completed without one. I would consider it one of the most balanced entries in a series where most of the games are either way too easy (DQ3, 4, 5, 6, 9) or questionably difficult (2, 1 gets a pass for being so old and the first in the genre). 7 is hard if you try to play it like the easy games, and presents a decent-but-not-impossible challenge if you play it like it was meant to be.

** Which by the way I am honestly confused about being considered "not user friendly". There's a difference between "game doesn't tell you where to go" and "game gives you information required to figure out where to go on your own". Maybe I just grew up playing games that expected me to be involved in the game I'm playing, but I honestly don't see the issue in this case. There are specific times when the clues are too vague and you definitely need to use the fortune teller, but that doesn't speak of the game's progression as a whole. Dragon Quest is deeply rooted in traditional gameplay and storytelling. Very few of the games are linear, and a lot of them progress similarly to DQ7; the difference with DQ7 is that it is so massive that not being spoonfed can often lead to you getting lost if you don't pay attention, because despite being fairly non-linear once you have access to the world, the game still expects you to complete certain objectives at some point, and if you didn't figure out what those objectives were then you're not going to know what you missed without doing a little backtracking.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tangerine

[Nightmare]

How does it have a niche market? It outsold FF7 in Japan when FF7 was at the height of its popularity on PS1, by over 1 million units no less (Also the best selling game in that entire console generation in Japan..). It's the 3rd best selling DQ game of all time, behind only VIII and IX. That's not niche.

My bad. That was meant to be a general statement, but I can see how you'd think it applies to this. Poor phrasing on my part. But of course, a popular series like DQ will sell and of course, also because it's not that great of a departure from the rest of the series. I don't think selling more than FFVII in Japan is an especially great accomplishment though, since DQ was always the more popular series over there.

It doesn't hold your hand, and using a guide to get around this quickly is generally why people feel they have to grind to get past certain areas. I don't see how not telling you exactly what to do (despite having obvious clues if you talk to people or use the fortune teller, but people don't talk to NPCs in RPGs anymore lol) is a slight against the game, it's just a different style.

Exactly. It's a different style, and that's why it turns some people off (like you mentioned in your next paragraph), hence why I mentioned accessibility and user-friendliness on a grander scale. Myself, I enjoy games of this ilk (if they're not overly impenetrable like some old exploration games), but I can see how some people would find it a drag.

I don't think it's fair to call any other sort of game a "hand holder" though. Maybe in comparison, but...

[Tangerine]

Most RPGs do hold your hand at this point. Even DQ9 was so linear that you really have no option but to go to the next area when you're done with the previous. People have gotten so accustomed to being told what to do that going back to a game like DQ7, where you're expected to explore and talk to townsfolk to learn what to do next is a shock.

In any case, I didn't take issue with someone not liking the style of DQ7, I took issue with bad game design being implied when it is clear that laziness on the side of the player is largely the cause of the problems he presented.

insane amount of grinding needed to just be able to survive some bosses

wait what People actually want DQ7? Have they not played it before? Because that game is the epitome of looking a guide to know exactly what to do to not get dicked half way through the game just because you missed an important item required to beat the game or not grinding the right jobs to get decent offensive skills and access to the other better jobs with better skills needed to actually heal and deal decent damage.

>_>

Not even gonna bold anything in this one because I covered pretty much this entire post.

Bosses are much more easily dealt with using your equipment options intelligently and picking decent class combos than grinding. For the rest, you can easily rely on the fortune teller, she will almost always point you pretty accurately to the next shard (the only items required to beat the game).

[Ein]

the fuck happened here

I don't understand how having good/right equipment to deal with bosses is a good thing considering just how expensive everything tends to be in DQ games.

any who

Currently doing the Dragovian Trials and Vermilion Dragon is not being nice.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Ein

[Ϲharlie]

I was never a big fan of Dragon Quest. I bought a copy of Dragon Quest VIII after its price had been reduced. I did not care much for it, although Yangus was kind of cool. I did kind of like what little I played of Dragon Quest III. I might revisit that one if I get bored enough.

[Celice]

the fuck happened here

I don't understand how having good/right equipment to deal with bosses is a good thing considering just how expensive everything tends to be in DQ games.

One of the things I like about the DQ game is the pricing. Most DQ I've played it's a nice marker of your advancing in the game, and more than that, it's balanced in such a way that your purchases are more meaningful, so long as you think through what you can afford and what will be most helpful.

In other RPGs you just clear shop every new store you find and become stronger in a predictable manner.

[Dai]

I kind of gave up buying gear in Dragon Quest V because I always felt inclined to buy the best possible gear for everyone I was currently battling with. I do pretty well with some basic stuff anyway. I buy only when I feel like it.

[Tangerine]

the fuck happened here

I don't understand how having good/right equipment to deal with bosses is a good thing considering just how expensive everything tends to be in DQ games.

any who

Currently doing the Dragovian Trials and Vermilion Dragon is not being nice.

You don't think that equipment being meaningful and significant outside of how much att/def it gives is a good thing?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Tangerine

[Topazd]

You don't think that equipment being meaningful and significant outside of how much att/def it gives is a good thing?

This.

Also, DQ games in general tend to do grinding really well IMO. Level ups always have a significant impact and the exp requirements scale upward nicely.

The same applies to purchasing gear; by the endgame, the best equipment available is ridiculously expensive. If you take the time to get it you basically win the game, although it is by no means necessary. Prioritizing the usage of your resources is one of the strong "strategic" (I use the term "strategy" when referring to video games very loosely) aspect of the series, IMO at least.

[Lann La Mirah]

I really liked DQ III and VIII, but wasn't that huge on V. Still, I'd like to give IV, VI, and VII a try. It's too bad X never made it over, though. D:

Has anyone played DQ Monsters Joker for the DS, btw? I got the game, but I didn't make it very far. I got wrapped up in something else, I think. XD

[Magical Glace]

I really liked DQ III and VIII, but wasn't that huge on V. Still, I'd like to give IV, VI, and VII a try. It's too bad X never made it over, though. D:

Has anyone played DQ Monsters Joker for the DS, btw? I got the game, but I didn't make it very far. I got wrapped up in something else, I think. XD

DQIV is pretty cool. However Chapter 3 (The one about Torneko Taloon) is pretty dumb.

Have you played IX? I have heard it summerized as DQIII with the DQVIII skill system. And it's accurate, tbh.

[Celice]

I really liked DQ III and VIII, but wasn't that huge on V. Still, I'd like to give IV, VI, and VII a try. It's too bad X never made it over, though. D:

Has anyone played DQ Monsters Joker for the DS, btw? I got the game, but I didn't make it very far. I got wrapped up in something else, I think. XD

I liked the Joker 2 more than Joker 1, since you move so slow in the latter (there are cheatcodes to speed up moving at least!). Joker 2 Professional didn't come out internationally, and featured more monsters and story quests. There is a fan translation patch available for it, however.

The DQ games look amazing on desmume with the native resolution hack. Sucks the DS has such low resolution...

And an animated comparison of native resolution to 4x:

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg405/KazoWAR/hires_zpsa5c11f8b.png

[Topazd]

I liked the Joker 2 more than Joker 1, since you move so slow in the latter (there are cheatcodes to speed up moving at least!). Joker 2 Professional didn't come out internationally, and featured more monsters and story quests. There is a fan translation patch available for it, however.

The DQ games look amazing on desmume with the native resolution hack. Sucks the DS has such low resolution...

I might try getting into Joker 2 Professional, since I didn't really like Joker 1 all that much for just that specific reason.

Yeah, the resolution is even worse if you try to replay DS games with a 3DSXL. Emulators are basically mandatory at that point unless you have veeery low standards for graphical quality.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Topazd255

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I've bought DQVI and rebought IX for DS today.

So I want to ask, which part should I play first.

Is there a huge difference in the diffculty between VI and IX and is there any relation in the story between these parts?

[Celice]

I'd say IX is easier than VI. No real story, though IX had some cameos from earlier games, mostly through it's Wi-Fi service stuff I think.

VI is more story driven and its gameplay centers around that. There is a class system, and characters come with their own strengths and faults. You will gain and lose party members as the story decides.

IX is more a classical DQ where you get generic characters that you can create and then give them whatever classes you like, and can grow them into powerful characters. The story is episodic like DQVII and VIII, and lends itself more to gameplay as being the main interest.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Thanks!

I'm newcomer to this series so I needed a few information, what I have to expect in this series.