Expanded Universe Initiative/Apprenticeships

[Arch]

Here’s what’s currently in development/at least had a planned platform crafted.

All the Elibe we Need:

- Elibian Nights
- Immortal Sword
- One of the FE6 remakes will get completed with so many of them
- Champion Blade (Al: The hack)
- Athos' Tale (a short hack in homeage to Nintenlord, who started something similar)

Arch’s Pipe-Dream Archanea Trilogy:

- Exalted Legacy
- Exalted Legacy II: Light and Shadow
- Exalted Legacy III: Slumber

Magvel needs a sequel:

- Depths of Darkness (tentatively titled)

The idea in presenting this as an initiative is to offer an apprenticeship opportunity to aspiring hackers - people who want to hone their skills working on a project without having to necessarily worry about the planning and coordination. Basically, we could have a cool Star Wars-esque expanded universe and then when Fire Emblem gets bought out by Disney it’ll all be declared bullshit (but enjoyable shall be it). One team could assemble to practice with an FE3 book 2 remake, or assist with a foray into FE8 hacking in developing a sequel. Participants would get direct experience with project management under the leadership of a director, and acquire the skills to craft their own ROM hacks.

Posted this on FEU, figured I'd port it over here to see if there was any interest.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxDzouVPMl-PWjROY0lZM2p1MzQ&usp=sharing

[Alertcircuit]

Quite the big idea you've got here Arch, and I like it. Would it be standardized, if so, how would you deal with the FE6 remake if multiple come into fruition? Whichever comes first? Idea behind Exalted Legacy 3 is pretty interesting too. I hope this helps more people come into the Fire Emblem hacking community!

[Kobazco]

I quite like this idea m8. As someone who is quite shitty at everything but eventing, and even then I use the emblem brigrade's event editor in browser thing most of the time, I am interested. I would love an oppurtunity fuck im bad at spellng i probs spelt that wrong, to become a better hacker.

[ghast]

gheb FE wasn't an fe8 sequel?

[Matt Snow]

Ok so I'm gonna come out and say it, am I the only one who finds this a little cheap? I mean at least once a week or so somebody who's new to the forums basically says "I have this cool idea, please make a hack based on it" and some of us try to politely tell him that he has to make it himself, that's how the site works. This is exactly the same thing except you changed the wording, you're saying "come learn to hack", while leaving out the "by make these hacks for me". I don't know it just seems hypocritical to me. .

[Fateborn]

Ok so I'm gonna come out and say it, am I the only one who finds this a little cheap? I mean at least once a week or so somebody who's new to the forums basically says "I have this cool idea, please make a hack based on it" and some of us try to politely tell him that he has to make it himself, that's how the site works. This is exactly the same thing except you changed the wording, you're saying "come learn to hack", while leaving out the "by make these hacks for me". I don't know it just seems hypocritical to me. .

You do realize he has rom hacks too?

See Elibe Nights, and Exalted Legacy. I'm sure he has more, but I can't remember which's his.

He's not asking for us to make him hacks, rather, he's offering newcomers chance to learn from him and other experts who's helping him out.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Fateborn

[ghast]

He's not asking for us to make him hacks, rather, he's offering newcomers chance to learn from him and other experts who's helping him out.

I remember when i first made my hack thread, and it was welcomed with cam's trolly posts and parr-furetchen-whatevers insanely rude posts. I get what this concept is trying to do. But if the hacking community wants to expand and evolve and stuff, it should probably start by not having people be rude just because it's the internet. But, If this concept can help shape the community into a more positive one, then yeah, that's kewl.

Edit: saw some irony in my post, lol.

Edited August 4, 2014 by XxXPierogiMaztR3pleXxX

[CT075]

For what it's worth I think this is a bad idea

[Klokinator]

gheb FE wasn't an fe8 sequel?

This may come as a shock to you, but FE8 was an alternate parallel dimension of Gheb FE. It's true.

@Arch wow, and I thought I had a ton of projects on my plate xD

[Crixler]

Interesting that you have the Jugdrali games taking place after the Archanean ones in your timeline. Didn't Tiki make a reference in Awakening that strongly hinted that Sigurd was from 1000 years before Marth?

[Arch]

Interesting that you have the Jugdrali games taking place after the Archanean ones in your timeline. Didn't Tiki make a reference in Awakening that strongly hinted that Sigurd was from 1000 years before Marth?

Written before Awakening with only minor revisions since. Thanks for notifying me.

Ok so I'm gonna come out and say it, am I the only one who finds this a little cheap? I mean at least once a week or so somebody who's new to the forums basically says "I have this cool idea, please make a hack based on it" and some of us try to politely tell him that he has to make it himself, that's how the site works. This is exactly the same thing except you changed the wording, you're saying "come learn to hack", while leaving out the "by make these hacks for me". I don't know it just seems hypocritical to me. .

Key difference: I'm not new to the forums, and I have two quality works (one being released in a little over two weeks, one going into the full development cycle after that) to back up my own capabilities and management skills. Not just some rando spewing nonsense. I mean, fine, if you want to be blunt the phrase should probably read "come learn to hack by working with a team making these hacks I've laid the conceptual foundations for." That's the honest assessment of what I'm aiming to do. At the end of the day, participants gain connections with other hackers, input into the development process, hands-on experience and mentorship, and get to be part of producing a game for the community to enjoy. Edited August 4, 2014 by Arch

[Brendor]

It's not really teaching hacking though, it's teaching gbafe hacking which is very specific (only can really apply to 3 roms) not to mention you're talking about working on a specific set of projects. Honestly people would be better off doing their own thing and learning things for themselves. Like if people wanna help with your project ideas that's cool but the internship thing isn't really giving me a good vibe but that's just my opinion

Edited August 4, 2014 by Brendor

[Kobazco]

It's not really teaching hacking though, it's teaching gbafe hacking which is very specific (only can really apply to 3 roms) not to mention you're talking about working on a specific set of projects. Honestly people would be better off doing their own thing and learning things for themselves. Like if people wanna help with your project ideas that's cool but the internship thing isn't really giving me a good vibe but that's just my opinion

I feel as though doing something with others to help you before doign your own thing is great. Although, I guess in order to even have any knowledge of hacking in Fire emblem, you do need to play around in some of your stuff first that sounds messed up. For example, Project Juan was more of a test for me. I managed to make 1 or 2 actual good maps (curse you mountains!) and gained alot of knowledge about event editing. Although, I'm still just a noob hacker who doesnt know anything about ASM hacking, can't insert new animations unless it's over an existing one, and everything else that I need to know to hack fire emblem I'm just OK or bad at. That's why I'm very interested in this :D

[electricwolf]

Hi, long-ish term member, potentially interested in making something.

Apart from my lack of coding knowledge, the main thing preventing me from even making a concept thread is the quite frankly toxic reception given to anyone asking for help, especially in the coding department. I'm not sure if it's the lack of clear information in some of the threads or the absence of any work to show potential collaborators but it really isn't a welcoming atmosphere.

I'd question the logic behind 'hacking apprenticeships' though. If someone has no experience of coding or making games, would they not be better off planning their own game and then work on the coding when FEXNA is released? Or if they have an interest in going into the coding side, why could help not be given on a philanthropic basis? I understand that many people on these forums have limited time especially while working on their own projects but only helping people who are making games that expands your series seems like it could be perceived by some as selfish. I'm not saying that you or anyone with experience should help every "rando spewing nonsense" make their poorly planned self-insertion games, but offering help without strings attached seems like it would be met with a better reception.

And don't planning and coordination sounds like the kind of things that would be helpful for amateurs to learn? If they successfully learn to code under someone else, how do you then know if they'll be an effective manager and leader of an independent project?

I also can't help but feel like maybe coding isn't the thing that most people need to work on. Some of the writing in hacks seems very average, plotlines seem very similar to existing games or seem to just be a crutch for actually allowing fighting instead of just being chapters of exposition, and I'm not sure if a hack has got as far as actually adding in any support conversations (correct me politely if I'm wrong, I haven't checked out every hack). In a genre where the storyline, writing and character development are actually very important it seems like a huge amount of importance is instead placed on how many items that nobody can pronounce can be added into the game or how many self-inserts you can fit into a bland "Let's make war" storyline. If you take out much of the writing and character development then you've essentially got Medieval Advance Wars the RPG. Writing has a low barrier of entry allowing anyone to do it but that doesn't necessarily make them competent at doing it.

Also, just to clarify, this isn't an attack on any person but on the attitude that seems to prevail here.

[Siuloir]

Hi, long-ish term member, potentially interested in making something.

I also can't help but feel like maybe coding isn't the thing that most people need to work on. Some of the writing in hacks seems very average, plotlines seem very similar to existing games or seem to just be a crutch for actually allowing fighting instead of just being chapters of exposition, and I'm not sure if a hack has got as far as actually adding in any support conversations (correct me politely if I'm wrong, I haven't checked out every hack). In a genre where the storyline, writing and character development are actually very important it seems like a huge amount of importance is instead placed on how many items that nobody can pronounce can be added into the game or how many self-inserts you can fit into a bland "Let's make war" storyline. If you take out much of the writing and character development then you've essentially got Medieval Advance Wars the RPG. Writing has a low barrier of entry allowing anyone to do it but that doesn't necessarily make them competent at doing it.

Also, just to clarify, this isn't an attack on any person but on the attitude that seems to prevail here.

There are in fact, hacks with support conversations.

To be fair, Fire Emblem is also not the best example of good writing, particularly GBAFE, which seems to be most people's point of familiarity. FE7 is pretty much adored, but frankly the characterization of swaths of the cast is often awful - Lyn in particular stands out as a central character who gets one whole section of development total after her mode ends. Support conversations do a bit to fill this out, however. (FE8 actually does a wonderful job of developing its characters through supports, but the base plotline of most Fire Emblem games are of pretty mediocre execution, with exceptions like say, FE4.)

As someone who is fairly confident in their own writing, I will agree that the general writing level of the community is low, but I don't think this is really the place where you can hold writing workshops. That's something that there are resources available all over the internet for.

Apart from my lack of coding knowledge, the main thing preventing me from even making a concept thread is the quite frankly toxic reception given to anyone asking for help, especially in the coding department. I'm not sure if it's the lack of clear information in some of the threads or the absence of any work to show potential collaborators but it really isn't a welcoming atmosphere.

It's the absence of work to show collaborators primarily, and the fact that most people don't bother to develop any sort of skills other than their supposed 'hey I have an idea I need graphics, sound, hacking, etc. etc.'. I'm relatively new to hacking, and I've never encountered toxicity in asking for help, but I also went ahead and taught myself a large amount of what I needed by reading tutorials, observing others and experimenting. (That's how I started animating, for one.) This of course isn't going to work for everyone - Not everyone is an independent learner.

But once again, I will agree - The overall attitude of the community is poor. A lot of people are content with smashing ideas rather than stepping up.

[deranger]

One reason new hackers don't receive a lot of help, especially before progress is shown, is the sheer number of new hackers who fizzle out, and leave nothing to show. This has the potential to add up small efforts. If newbies decide they like hacking, and have some confidence they'll go far enough to have something to show, they can spring off into their new project. Alternatively, once newbies put in the time, I'd like to think they gain a greater say in the project's direction.

tl;dr This has the potential to produce something from short term efforts, and newbies, project managers, and the community all have something to gain from it.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Written before Awakening with only minor revisions since. Thanks for notifying me.

If we want more timeline shenanigans, http://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Archanea,_Valentia_and_Jugdral, seems like a reasonable theoretic timeline? (It is speculative, though and of course)

Oh, and Arch, if you need more dark magic users for the player cast in FE2, make Hark playable :B

Edited August 4, 2014 by L95

[CT075]

if you ask me, if people are having problems with the technical side of things, they're better off just going for it and asking for help after trying everything they can think of than getting a mentor during a different project (since that's sort of a crutch)

Edited August 4, 2014 by CT075

[Arch]

The idea is to teach all aspects of project development by immersing yourself with...a project. For people who lack the skills or/and resources necessary to produce a large-scale hack but are interested in doing so, I'm seeking to create a structure that allows individuals to simultaneously develop those skills and connections through the time-tested art of doing. I know that Brendor's had trouble commissioning sprites in the recent past - someone could get assigned to coordinate those commissions and connect with spriters.

"Internships" often get a bad rap. As the successful recipient of a $17.50/hour in-college job, I'd say that they are what you take out of them. Fortunately enough I landed in an environment that wanted me to develop as an individual and as a professional. That's what I want this initiative to offer: the opportunity to take what you want from the experience. Or hell, if one of these proposals just piques your interest you'd be welcome to just join for the project.

Keeping in mind also that the list of projects is just what I've conceived and developed, and this program is more than open to helping produce the ideas of others - if someone wants to form a team, develop and concept and says "hey, we've got this idea and we'd appreciate the assistance" that'd be perfectly fine.

But basically, this is how things look in my head timeline wise (regarding my concepts).

Phase 1:

• Elibian Nights (Coming out by month's end)
• Exalted Legacy
• FE8 Sequel

Phase 2:

• Exalted Legacy II: Light and Shadow (?)
• Exalted Legacy III: Slumber

FE8 getting a sequel has been on my priorities list for as long as I can remember, but nothing's ever really materialized. It seems like there's decent interest in making that a reality, so that one's higher up on the priorities list.

I'm also considering the FE3A project's placement - I'm looking for a good pilot project to sort of test the waters with. After Blazing Shell is ready for project development, I'm porting Exalted Legacy (it's already sort of begun for the FEE3 demo) to build the "Exalted Engine," and either developing FE3A concurrently with Exalted Legacy (which I aim to have more-or-less resource-complete by year's end) or doing it alongside the third entry further down the road.

[sirmola]

It's not really teaching hacking though, it's teaching gbafe hacking which is very specific (only can really apply to 3 roms) not to mention you're talking about working on a specific set of projects.

If people wanted to learn to hack other roms, they'd probably join a more general community like rhdn or something. Also, many skills are transferable. I suspect most general hackers got at least decent at one game before diversifying.

Edited August 4, 2014 by sirmola

[Brendor]

But these are all your ideas and things you want to get accomplished. I'm sure people just want to do their own thing. Perfect example, I wanted and still kinda want to make a gba version of fe3 book 2 but the idea of doing it this way isn't appealing to me because it wouldn't be my own, if I worked on it here I'd feel like I'm working for someone and that I have a boss to satisfy. ROMhacking is a hobby, it's a way to escape bs like jobs and school. That's just how I feel about it, if people want to do this and can get something out of that then more power to you but for me personally the notion isn't appealing

[Tryhard]

But once again, I will agree - The overall attitude of the community is poor. A lot of people are content with smashing ideas rather than stepping up.

There was a discussion about this once. I'm not often around the hacking section, but it is a pity if we can't follow through with the things said in this topic.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Tryhard

[Siuloir]

There was a discussion about this once. I'm not often around the hacking section, but it is a pity if we can't follow through with the things said in this topic.

Why would you ever expect people to? It's an easier high to make someone feel bad than to hold yourself to standards, or to create in your own right - The former is too tiring for some people, the latter forces you to deal with your own demons.

[arkel]

Joined the forum so I could post here. I really like this idea. I have wanted to work on a FE GBA hack for a few years now but haven't mustered up the courage. My strengths lie in music composition, concept development, and script writing, but I'm no good at the actual 'hacking' of the rom. This opportunity is great for someone in a position like mine. Please let me know if I can contribute in any way!