Czar_Yoshi Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Well, Cherche can transition to War Cleric pretty easily and build up her Mag there, if you have time and want her to do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Trickster gets pretty useless when you have a Falcoknight or a Valkyrie with Picklock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttocksinator Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Trickster gets pretty useless when you have a Falcoknight or a Valkyrie with Picklock. Or literally anything else for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiac Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 5.) Great Knight: It's useless for 20/20 grinding, but is an ok class tree to be in with no grind, sole partner only and for skills. It has good weapon triangle advantage making low on the list. 4.) Snipers: Skill equivalent to Assassins, both can use Bows the other has access to Sword too. 'nuff said 3.)Taguel: It's an ok class, but in most sets not the ideal final class for similar reasons of the Great Knight except it does not have weapon advantages, and skill. 2.)Merchant: You be the so weak, but you whoop my ass in Apotheosis. Fuck you Anna :'D (I will regret this.) 1.) Swordmasters: This is odd for me to say. I am absolutely in love with Swordmasters, but in Awakening. They're terrible. Outclassed in everything from the Assassin except Defensive stats. With no crit advantage to make up for this. The sole reason you use a Swordmaster is their flashy-dicey-swordmastery-crits and the fact Assassin has the same speed cap, makes their love for not being hit due to high evade and can kill things with it's crits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Nightblood Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 Noticing a lot of trickster hate here. Me, I like tricksters. They are the best Leven Sword user (well besides Grandmaster) and are good for children who were unfortunate enough to have parents who were based around magic (looking at you Owain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 DK has secondary Tomes and better Mag than Trickster while retaining the +Mag/Mov bonus, and don't forget DF. And magical units are good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeteoSage Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Just wondering, but what would you consider to count as not constrained? I simply wish that it could have dark magic. I hate going from Dark Mage using dark magic to not having dark magic. Like the Falcoknight, most don't have the strength to effectively use the sword component, and those that class change into it don't have the magic to use spells effectively, unless it's your avatar or Henry. I generally get Lifetaker and switch to another class for that reason. Edited August 16, 2014 by rhaynes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) I don't get why people think Paladins are better than Great Knights. Paladins may have better speed and res, but Great Knights have better weapon coverage, skills, strength, and defense. They're basically armor knights without their painful weaknesses (the shitty movement and speed). Besides, many possible Great Knights also have access to Aegis and Res +10. I also don't get why people say Bow Knight is worse than Sniper if they say Taguel is bad because of a lack of 1-2 range. Snipers lack close up range whereas Bow Knights get swords AND better movement. Edited August 16, 2014 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwind Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 If I had to pick three from this game specfically? 1.) Snipers: Good for Bowfaire, not much else. I like versatility in my units and barring pair up/ galeforce abuse, these guys don't really have what I want. I like bow users, but I'll stick with Assassins and Bow Knights for my needs unless I just really like the Double Bow. 2.) Swordmasters: Oh how the mighty have fallen. Without the crit+ skills, swordmasters are nothing more then inferior Assassins without bows. Sure, they get two fairly decent skills, but there's no compelling reason to not just go to one of the many other sword weilding classes that have better stats or more options once you get them. 3.) Great Knights: Speaking of good skills on a bad class, this thing has two of the better skills in the game with Luna and Dual Guard+. If you like to optimize you will be sending so many units through this bulked up abomination that you will be sick of it. I think the big reason I don't like this thing is that it's just so supurflous. If I want a high movement unit on horseback, there's the Paladin or the Bow Knight or any of the flyer classes. If I want a Tank, I've got General. Great Knight wants to do both and triest o make up for its master of none status with a complete weapon triangle, but even that isn't enough to make this class worth staying in after you grab those skills. Besides, if I want a mobile tank, I'll just use a Wyvern Lord. It's what their there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinehollow Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Besides, many possible Great Knights also have access to Aegis and Res +10. I have Frederick both Aegis and Pasive,and he works a hell lot better then he did as a Paladin.Plus,thanks for the idea of giving him Res +10 so I do't have every damn Dread Scroll I get after grinding on that map filling up my inventory space. Edited August 16, 2014 by Shinehollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Something that really bugs me about the Snipers in this game is the huge Defense buff they have, in both class base and class caps. They're Snipers. They're meant to be offensive. They're not even meant to be seen, let alone get attacked. Edited August 16, 2014 by Woodshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I have Frederick both Aegis and Pasive,and he works a hell lot better then he did as a Paladin.Plus,thanks for the idea of giving him Res +10 so I do't have every damn Dread Scroll I get after grinding on that map filling up my inventory space. Heh, no problem! Frederick looks quite sexy as a Dread Fighter too, if I do say so myself. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinehollow Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Heh, no problem! Frederick looks quite sexy as a Dread Fighter too, if I do say so myself. ^^ Yeah.I did that once.Felt really bad about changing him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTwerewolf Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I'm another one that's always been a fan of swordmasters, but in this game they're just not good. Tricksters are another one where i wish was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) I simply wish that it could have dark magic. I hate going from Dark Mage using dark magic to not having dark magic. Like the Falcoknight, most don't have the strength to effectively use the sword component, and those that class change into it don't have the magic to use spells effectively, unless it's your avatar or Henry. I generally get Lifetaker and switch to another class for that reason. Fair enough. To me they're just Grandmasters on wheels with much better distribution and defensive pairup boosts. Outclassed for Apo, but near the top of the stack for Lunatic(+) no DLC postgame. I don't get why people think Paladins are better than Great Knights. Paladins may have better speed and res, but Great Knights have better weapon coverage, skills, strength, and defense. They're basically armor knights without their painful weaknesses (the shitty movement and speed). Besides, many possible Great Knights also have access to Aegis and Res +10. I also don't get why people say Bow Knight is worse than Sniper if they say Taguel is bad because of a lack of 1-2 range. Snipers lack close up range whereas Bow Knights get swords AND better movement. Dunno if you want that to be answered, but... GK has -the worst- Skl in the game. Even with weapon triangle control, they're plagued by Hitrate, DS and proc rate deficiencies (including Aegis). And they have the second lowest Spd in the game, so Spd really is an issue for them (they're even slower than Manaketes!)- especially since the one unit who's both physically oriented, has enough Spd to overcome their deficit, and has a niche in playing normally slow classes, Lon'qu!Severa, doesn't even get GK. Weapon Triangle is nice, but it doesn't matter postgame when you're using a Faire, because you won't want to drop your Faire type. Thanks to their dual Beast/Armor weakness, they're also vulnerable to three common different physical effective weapons, which doesn't help them as tanks. In terms of pairup bonuses Paladin curbstomps them, they have a 1 Str/1 Def/1 Mov edge on Paladin, but Paladin has a +4 Spd/Skl edge on them. The +Mov doesn't really matter either because it's better to have a 6/8 Mov team than a 7/7 Mov one. BK has a couple of niches, but the big difference in terms of general usage is that BK has the second lowest total stat caps in the game (beaten by... Wait for it... GK! Which is funny because General has the highest total stat caps in the game, not counting Manakete's Dragonstone boosts), while Snipers both have Longbow access (there are a couple of bosses in Apo that can be a pain to take out without help from these, especially for new players) and are the best Dual Strike boosting support in the game. Being 2-range locked isn't purely a bad thing either, it makes you immune to Counter. Taguel has no ranged options, and thus will get hit by it every time even on Player Phase when a ranged unit could take it down safely. Edited August 17, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Dunno if you want that to be answered, but... GK has -the worst- Skl in the game. Even with weapon triangle control, they're plagued by Hitrate, DS and proc rate deficiencies (including Aegis). And they have the second lowest Spd in the game, so Spd really is an issue for them (they're even slower than Manaketes!)- especially since the one unit who's both physically oriented, has enough Spd to overcome their deficit, and has a niche in playing normally slow classes, Lon'qu!Severa, doesn't even get GK. Weapon Triangle is nice, but it doesn't matter postgame when you're using a Faire, because you won't want to drop your Faire type. Thanks to their dual Beast/Armor weakness, they're also vulnerable to three common different physical effective weapons, which doesn't help them as tanks. In terms of pairup bonuses Paladin curbstomps them, they have a 1 Str/1 Def/1 Mov edge on Paladin, but Paladin has a +4 Spd/Skl edge on them. The +Mov doesn't really matter either because it's better to have a 6/8 Mov team than a 7/7 Mov one. BK has a couple of niches, but the big difference in terms of general usage is that BK has the second lowest total stat caps in the game (beaten by... Wait for it... GK! Which is funny because General has the highest total stat caps in the game, not counting Manakete's Dragonstone boosts), while Snipers both have Longbow access (there are a couple of bosses in Apo that can be a pain to take out without help from these, especially for new players) and are the best Dual Strike boosting support in the game. Being 2-range locked isn't purely a bad thing either, it makes you immune to Counter. Taguel has no ranged options, and thus will get hit by it every time even on Player Phase when a ranged unit could take it down safely. I honestly didn't really care if anyone answered me or not. :P I wasn't expecting THIS long of an answer if someone did though. lol I get what you're saying, though. Still, I don't think Great Knight and Bow Knight are really as bad as some people say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 BK isn't, as long as you know what you want to do with them. Despite having very low stats, they're tied with several others for the highest +Skl pairup boost in the game (different from Sniper's DS boost) and the only one to give that big of a boost that also gives +Mov. They're often superior to Snipers for acting as Sage supports as well, thanks to not wasting a Str support (mostly Chrom does this), though only Archer -> Bow Knights have that niche (Merc -> BKs also have Hero, which has higher Str and Skl with the same Skl/Spd boost). They're also the only 8-Mov bow user, which is very useful for Lunatic+, as well as hunting down thieves without nuking a large amount of enemies that you could feed to your weak units instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheosis Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 It's true that tricksters have excellent mobility, but when it comes to battle, they're pretty useless. I don't really see why you'd want a Griffon Rider since they're just weaker Wyvern Lords that don't have the capability to use lances. Bow Knights have an excellent choice of weapons but are pretty lacking in stats. Finally, my one major peeve; Dark Knights. They can't use dark magic... dark knight, dark magic. See the issue? Why would you upgrade a dark mage into a dark knight when the dark knight just drops their dark magic ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTwerewolf Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I only ever use griffon riders to get swordbreaker for my manaketes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Why would you upgrade a dark mage into a dark knight when the dark knight just drops their dark magic ability. To give them a shirt? I only ever use griffon riders to get swordbreaker for my manaketes. That's Wyvern Lord. Griffon gives Lancebreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The Sniper hate in here. Tsk tsk. Did 3 Range Procs and Dual Strikes along with the highest Skl cap, the great Hit +20, and great pair up bonuses suddenly become not awesome or am I just blazed? Bow Knights and are pretty cool too. They're like Assassins but with 2 more Mov and slightly less kickass pair up bonuses. They're stats aren't even that bad. 40 Str/43 Skl gets the job done well. They're defense can be a really big issue in main game though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Isn't Dual Strike+ from the Lord class though, which only Chrom and Lucina have? And I'd think they'd be better off staying Great Lord because Falchion. People told me that Lethality is bad even though Rightful King helps it and more people can get Rightful King than Dual Strike+. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Isn't Dual Strike+ from the Lord class though, which only Chrom and Lucina have? And I'd think they'd be better off staying Great Lord because Falchion. People told me that Lethality is bad even though Rightful King helps it and more people can get Rightful King than Dual Strike+. :/ Both of them are better off as Bow Knights or Paladins actually if you want Falchion. Pally is basically G Lord with better movement, better pair up bonuses and better Res. More so for Lucina since Chrom doesn't get his weapon until what, 2 chapters left?Lethality can be pretty clutch but I don't see someone getting that RFK combo mid game. That's Lucina going from Lord to G Lord to Assassin and Inigo Merc to Hero to Assassin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Isn't Dual Strike+ from the Lord class though, which only Chrom and Lucina have? And I'd think they'd be better off staying Great Lord because Falchion. People told me that Lethality is bad even though Rightful King helps it and more people can get Rightful King than Dual Strike+. :/ Being a Great Lord has no bearing on whether or not one can weild Falchion. That's by character, only Chrom, Lucina, and the various Marths can weild it, in any class that uses swords. Lethality's okay in theory, but by the time a unit can activate it with any inkling of consistently, they're most likely ORKOing the majority of their enemies anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Oh, I thought only the Lord and Great Lord classes could use the Falchion. o.O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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