I'm sure no one cares but... this happened

[Mikethfc]

Nope still up, I think
http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-162820379

When I was talking about claiming harassment, this is the sort of the thing I meant.
[spoiler=big image]

(And I guess OP enough people care about it lol)

Fruitcake plz

[Tryhard]

Nope still up, I think

It is, huh. I had to google it again, though. I guess any attempts to link to it fail, which is pretty hilarious.

(god that comment section)

I buggered it up muh bad.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tryhard

[RJWalker]

Fake harassment. That's just perfect.

Anita dear, gamers don't hate you because you are a woman. They hate you because you're a hack.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Siuloir]

As you may be aware of Zoe Quinn.

Well, she's trying to shut down a company making a game production for women because she didn't like them.

So a certain site group decided to take advantage of that opposition and supported the company, TFYC.

Image containing major of the information in the spoiler. SFW.

Links posted in image:

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/34401279/#q34402802

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-fine-young-capitalists--2/contributions/new?perk_amt=2000&perk_id=2242804

What's your thought on this?

I don't care about Zoe Quinn or about her immoral affairs, but I cared a little enough to post it here.

All of this is so circumstantial, as yet unproven, and the brainchild of the confluence of MRA, 4 chan, and pretty all the neckbearding the internet has to offer.

Also, 'her immoral affairs?" it was shown that her relationship with a reviewer happened before Depression Quest was even a thing for them to review.

It really helps if you actually do research instead of blindly post stuff you read.

The Zoe Quinn thing is massively overblown hearsay being used to justify doxxing and scorched-earth harassment. That anybody cares about her sex life is a special kind of stupid on its own, but the guys they're so stubbornly saying she slept with didn't even directly review her bloody game, at least not in the "sit down and talk about it/give a statement of its perceived quality" sense. It's a fucking free/pay-what-you-want game in the first place, how could she even get like real substantial, corrupted benefit out of- ugh. muh corruption, muh games, muh muh

If some people on 4chan want to donate to a women's game jam to spite whoever, whatever. At least they've openly said they did it to thumb their noses, at, who, Anita Sarkeesian? It's not like you can lift a foot in /v/ without stepping in misanthropic, misogynist bile, and they don't try to hide it otherwise.

This.

Fake harassment. That's just perfect.

Anita dear, gamers don't hate you because you are a woman. They hate you because you're a hack.

Despite Sarkeesian's rough start, her current stuff is rather well done, and she is mostly hated because people can't deal with the idea the things they love have flaws.

Also, if you make death threats toward ANYONE for putting forth an opinion or an analysis you don't agree with, you are basically a sociopath and need to be removed from society.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Siuloir

[Tryhard]

This.

Are you going to ignore Rehab's renouncement of his earlier posts?

As for the rest, is the evidence in this topic not enough for you? Somehow, I don't think you even read it.

I don't care what you think about Sarkeesian's content, but is the above linked image not suspicious at all to you?

Edit:

Also, if you make death threats toward ANYONE for putting forth an opinion or an analysis you don't agree with, you are basically a sociopath and need to be removed from society.

Excuse me? You seem to be assuming a lot here. Edited August 29, 2014 by Tryhard

[Siuloir]

Are you going to ignore Rehab's renouncement of his earlier posts?

As for the rest, is the evidence in this topic not enough for you? Somehow, I don't think you even read it.

I don't care what you think about Sarkeesian's content, but is the above linked image not suspicious at all to you?

Yes, I am.

And no, it is not enough.

She's no angel, for certain (she can stir up a Twitter storm like a pro), but the level of blow up over someone else's sex life is ridiculous. People hate Zoe Quinn because she's Zoe Quinn and because they have problems with Depression Quest, and are on the 'oh no feminism ruins everything I lovee' kick. The fact that this is a 'controversy' is laughable, and indicative of how deplorable the gaming community at large really is. The fact that there have been death and rape threats bandied about is inexcusable regardless. The fact that people were planning to stand outside PAX and hand out Zoe Quinn's nudes as a 'protest' is almost so dumb as to be incapable of rendering in human speech.

I don't care what you think about Sarkeesian's content,

I don't care what you think about a single thing, so I guess we're even?

[Tryhard]

You can certainly stir up a storm too, ya know? Whatever ya say, bro.

[Esme]

she is mostly hated because people can't deal with the idea the things they love have flaws.

this is so hilariously wrong

people hate her because she is the personification of everything wrong with "internet social justice"

she's also a hack so there's that too

[Alertcircuit]

Yeah although I disagree with Anita's methods, I still have loads of respect for the concept of Feminist Frequency. Maybe she didn't execute it properly, maybe she put herself on pedestal in the process, whatever. It's still never okay to harass someone or send them death threats just because they believe differently than you.

[Siuloir]

this is so hilariously wrong

people hate her because she is the personification of everything wrong with "internet social justice"

she's also a hack so there's that too

You want to quantify that with words?

Anita is so hated for being Anita (and as I said, I've had plenty issues with things she's said) that when Tim Schaefer, one of the most respected developers in the industry a man who people gave millions of dollars on Kickstarter to make a game just because he is who he is, and who hasd completely abused their trust over it, vouched for her latest video on 'women as background dressing' in games, people accused him of 'betraying them' and launched attacks on him.

You can certainly stir up a storm too, ya know? Whatever ya say, bro.

I don't have thousands of twitter followers as compared to Zoe Quinn, to be fair.

I gave an opinion. Apparently it is an unpopular one around here, since the hunt in this thread seems to be firmly aimed toward the females at the center of gaming's 'latest' controversy.

My comment about death threats referred to the numerous ones Quinn (and Sarkeesian, as an aside) have received over this issue.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Siuloir

[RJWalker]

Wow dude, get real.

[Tryhard]

Well I mean we're all neckbeards, MRAs and 4channers, so why does that surprise you?

And fair enough, but I think (and hope) most of us are in agreement that legitimate death threats are completely unacceptable, but people have qualms to ones like the above if they are actually legitimate (and yes, I'm aware that they have received ones that are, and that's deplorable)

[RJWalker]

Anita is a hack. She goes so far as to lie about the game she's talking about to find sexism.

Case in point: Hitman Absolution. One mission takes place in a strip club. Now Hitman stars a Hitman (duh!) and the most optimal way to complete missions to not kill anyone except the intended target and not be seen by anyone else. But Anita lies about this and says that the game encourages you to kill the strippers and play around with their bodies despite this being false and actually harms your progress. Nevermind that you can do that to any hcaracter, male or female and it is just as bad for the playthrough.

So Anita basically went around killing and mutilating the bodies of a bunch of stippers against the advice of the game and then went around claiming that the game encourages this sexist behaviour. I think she has some deep issues. Or she's a scam artist and a good one at that.

One guy who hadn't played the game even watched around dozens of playthroughs from different people of this particular mission to see what they did. Every single one of them played using stealth. And most of them avoided the strippers completely and took a safer path to the target. And Anita still claims the games supports the 'women are a sexual object for men to play with'.

Anita's content has not improved. It has gotten worse.

[RJWalker]

As for death threats, let's put aside the manufactured death threats that Anita is creating to play the victim and address the real death threats. Yes they exist. And they exist for everything. Women in games are not being oppressed by death threats, at least no more so than everyone other famous person on the planet, regardless of gender. This has nothing to do with gaming. What about Jack Thompson? He recieved even more death threats and hate but apparently, no one cares because 'he deserves it'. Yes, the stuff he claims is bullshit but the threats were real. People are assholes. They're assholes because they can be assholes. But of course, it's easier to blame everyone who posts genuine criticism rather than dealing with valid criticism.

[Siuloir]

Well I mean we're all neckbeards, MRAs and 4channers, so why does that surprise you?

And fair enough, but I think (and hope) most of us are in agreement that legitimate death threats are completely unacceptable, but people have qualms to ones like the above if they are actually legitimate (and yes, I'm aware that they have received ones that are, and that's deplorable)

Despite my disdain, I'm actually not willing to sort the people of the thread into any of those categories. That was directed at the scandal at large.

I would hope they find them objectionable. People are still so hung up on who she slept with though, as if it has any sort of relevance to anything she's ever done.

Anita is a hack. She goes so far as to lie about the game she's talking about to find sexism.

Case in point: Hitman Absolution. One mission takes place in a strip club. Now Hitman stars a Hitman (duh!) and the most optimal way to complete missions to not kill anyone except the intended target and not be seen by anyone else. But Anita lies about this and says that the game encourages you to kill the strippers and play around with their bodies despite this being false and actually harms your progress. Nevermind that you can do that to any hcaracter, male or female and it is just as bad for the playthrough.

So Anita basically went around killing and mutilating the bodies of a bunch of stippers against the advice of the game and then went around claiming that the game encourages this sexist behaviour. I think she has some deep issues. Or she's a scam artist and a good one at that.

One guy who hadn't played the game even watched around dozens of playthroughs from different people of this particular mission to see what they did. Ever

BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE THING is such a common derailment tactic, and that particular talking point is the one people harp on to discard virtually everything she's said. (And yes, Hitman is a terrible example at times like this, though the level of implied/allowed violence is pretty high. The game itself expects you to play optimally using stealth.)

Her latest video has examples from numerous games that are perfectly on target (Dishonored, Red Dead Redemption, the latest GTA, the Witcher 2) that lend credence to the idea that people push the violence toward women button as an additional means of adding grittiness to a setting (which also plays off your social hardwiring that women are the weaker/fairer sex, so violence toward them is even more horrific and thus the setting is 'darker and edgier'.

As for death threats, let's put aside the manufactured death threats that Anita is creating to play the victim and address the real death threats. Yes they exist. And they exist for everything. Women in games are not being oppressed by death threats, at least no more so than everyone other famous person on the planet, regardless of gender. This has nothing to do with gaming. What about Jack Thompson? He recieved even more death threats and hate but apparently, no one cares because 'he deserves it'. Yes, the stuff he claims is bullshit but the threats were real. People are assholes. They're assholes because they can be assholes. But of course, it's easier to blame everyone who posts genuine criticism rather than dealing with valid criticism.

I'd be highly curious to see statistics that support the idea that women in the industry don't on average, receive more violent threats of death and rape. Particularly since I don't see anyone really threatening to rape male gaming industry figures.

As for Thompson, a man so delusional and obsessive he was DISBARRED for it is hardly a comparable talking point.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Siuloir

[RJWalker]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE THING is such a common derailment tactic, and that particular talking point is the one people harp on to discard virtually everything she's said. (And yes, Hitman is a terrible example at times like this, though the level of implied/allowed violence is pretty high. The game itself expects you to play optimally using stealth.)

Not 'one' thing. That was one example. Of many.

The xamples she lists are also poor. WHat about the generic mooks that almost always male? Isn't that violence against men? Isn't that an example of desensitization of violence against men? Isn't that encouraging gamers that killing men is okay? She'd be up in arms if a game came out with all female generic mooks that you had to kill. But no, apparently, killing women is more wrong than killing men.

She's looking for sexism against women and finding it. I could do the same and find sexism against men and I'd find just as many examples. But I know it's bullshit on both sides.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Siuloir]

The xamples she lists are also poor. WHat about the generic mooks that almost always male? Isn't that violence against men? Isn't that an example of desensitization of violence against men? Isn't that encouraging gamers that killing men is okay? She'd be up in arms if a game came out with all female generic mooks that you had to kill. But no, apparently, killing women is more wrong than killing men.

There's a lot more social context to it than that, actually, but considering you went for the classic 'but men are discriminated against/aggressed upon/raped/etc etc.' angle, I now know that further discussion is fruitless.

[Balcerzak]

Okay, people. Let's continue along in the nice direction we'd been going without anyone making insinuations against anyone else, okay.

[RJWalker]

There's a lot more social context to it than that, actually, but considering you went for the classic 'but men are discriminated against/aggressed upon/raped/etc etc.' angle, I now know that further discussion is fruitless.

I see that you missed the point entirely. I said I could look for sexism against men and I have no doubt I would find it. But it's confirmation bias. I won't do that because I know it's bullshit. Just like I know how looking for sexism against women will naturally result in finding it and then latching on to and ignoring everything else.

Social context my ass. If we keep hanging on to social context, there will never be any progress.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Tryhard]

Whatever opinions you have on Anita Sarkeesian's content (and to give you mine, I don't like it, shocker), this was not why I was bringing her up. While I have agreed earlier in the topic that this is overblown, it is still an issue for journalistic purposes - indeed, the only reason I even got into Zoe's sex life was to try and show how the evidence points to the ex-boyfriend's claims being true, the fact that they tried to both discredit him and censor any discussion of such a topic, the hypocrisy and "ethics" of some of the websites involved, and the way the media reacts in general. Can you explain why the evidence presented is not enough for you, when it has been confirmed by some of the men, by Zoe Quinn herself through the chat logs that they had sexual relationships? When there has been mentions from these journalists of Zoe Quinn's Depression Quest in articles? When there has been images of clear censorship? When there has been images of her character from various conflicts? The practices of people like Anita Sarkessian (for her questionable points, self-victimisation and all the instances of donations and money) and Zoe Quinn are extremely shady to say the least.

Trust me, this is far more than "feminism is ruining the thing I like, oh nooo!"

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tryhard

[RJWalker]

Most sane people have moved on from the sex. Naturally, sex was what brought in the initial attention. Everybody pays attention to a potential sex scandal. But in light of the Wizardchan issue and the TFYC shutdown as well as the blanket censorship by all major 'news' sites insisting that this was just a bunch of angry male misogynists and their hypocrisy when it comes to ethics are now the main talking points. The only people who keep bringing sex back into the discussion are the ones defending her and sticking with the 'just a bunch of angry male misogynists' line.

[Mikethfc]

All of this is so circumstantial, as yet unproven, and the brainchild of the confluence of MRA, 4 chan, and pretty all the neckbearding the internet has to offer.

Also, 'her immoral affairs?" it was shown that her relationship with a reviewer happened before Depression Quest was even a thing for them to review.

It really helps if you actually do research instead of blindly post stuff you read.

This.

Despite Sarkeesian's rough start, her current stuff is rather well done, and she is mostly hated because people can't deal with the idea the things they love have flaws.

Also, if you make death threats toward ANYONE for putting forth an opinion or an analysis you don't agree with, you are basically a sociopath and need to be removed from society.

So, I'm going to go straight ahead and post this whilst ignoring the ad-hominems and the erasure of women in the anti-media side

Now we can also mention that they gave coverage of her attempted game-jam, after she sabotaged two previous ones, one of which being a charity event, and also that her rebel jam has no start date AND the donate button sends you to her private paypal.

Next we've got you still trying to make it about her sex-life, even though it never really was.

As far as Tim Schafer goes, whilst I'm not defending what he did, that was one person, and he was condemned by people on /v/ but carry on tarnishing the anti-media group because of one person who a) may not even be involved with /v/

Also defending Anita, who completely disregards context.

e.g Dixie Kong, who has a somewhat established character when you take into account the limitations of the SNES and how nobody except Cranky Kong has more than 1 or 2 lines in the entire thing, but apparently she's a Ms. Male Character for wearing pink and having earrings, says Anita, whilst wearing earings and a (partially) pink shirt.

Also the Hitman one is said so frequently because it's the most obvious example of her being willfully dishonest. Not trusting somebody who has been known to lie and twist the truth isn't de-railing, it's common sense.

And of course he said it happens to the men in games too, because Anita has been trying to shrink it down to a gender issue to fill her narrative.

Look at the women as background objects, where she shows the female prostitutes from Fable 2 and Dragon Age Origins, neglecting to even mention that they both have male prostitutes too.

There's a lot wrong with her work, and unless I'm misreading one of your points, if you want to say she or Zoe gets this much hate, (which is inexcusable,) then you need to do a quick google Jack Thompson, or remind me of all the bile any of these women get

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mikethfc

[Tryhard]

Here's another article that is hilarious:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

(I think these are as important to link)

In regards to feminism, there are feminists that are against Zoe Quinn and such, so I don't think feminism as a whole is the problem when it comes to defending people like this.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tryhard

[Mikethfc]

Here's another article that is hilarious:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

(I think these are as important to link)

In regards to feminism, there are feminists that are against Zoe Quinn and such, so I don't think feminism as a whole is the problem.

I think the master-list is here

Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over. Exclusive - Leigh Alexander

https://archive.today/l1kTW

We Might Be Witnessing The 'Death of An Identity' - Luke Plunkett

https://archive.today/YlBhH

The End of Gamers - Dan Golding

https://archive.today/L4vJG

A Guide to Ending "Gamers" - Devin Wilson

https://archive.today/2t93l

The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them - Casey Johnson

https://archive.today/i928J

It's Dangerous to Go Alone: Why Are Gamers So Angry? - Arthur Chu

https://archive.today/9NxHy

Gaming Is Leaving “Gamers” Behind - Joseph Bernstein

https://archive.today/jVqJ8

An awful week to care about video games - Chris Plante

https://archive.today/rkvO8

[Julius Nepos]

Here's another article that is hilarious:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

This article deserves special mention for being a self-fulfilling prophecy. It argues that, whether it's true or not, gamers are seen as sexist and misogynist and whatnot by the rest of the world. The irony is that it is press just like this article that have created and maintain this image.