My first hack: Battle of the Tiers

[RandomSwordmaster]

In any case, until i have more free time to work on and figure this out, this project is postponed indefinitely. That is, unless some random person wants to do the rest of the work at which i would happily oblige.

Edited November 26, 2014 by RandomSwordmaster

[CT075]

to elaborate - nightmare is about as far removed from raw hex editing as XNA's editors will be - you're still editing data structs and the values therein, only difference being that XNA's will give you more control over the format of the struct itself (that is, you can do things like adding extra stats to units a lot more easily because C# has a compiler to handle that for you); nightmare and the XNA interface just make it easier by sticking labels on them

on a side note, anybody who says "i'm going to do xna over romhacking because xna uses coding and i know coding" is deluding themselves; from what i've seen the interfaces will be nearly exactly the same except that XNA's are in fact more complicated (due to the extra features). with all the plugins and utilities coming out for ROMhacking these days, you can make a perfectly respectable ROMhack while never opening the ROM in an actual numbers-on-a-whiteboard hex editor. new features (which is a legitimate reason to use XNA over a ROMhack) aside, pretty much the only thing i've seen from XNA that is strictly easier than it is currently with ROMhacking is the event maker, although the difference isn't nearly as big as most of the detractors would have you believe thanks to the existence of Eventiel (which has been around for years by now).

i feel like everybody missed this Edited November 26, 2014 by CT075

[RandomSwordmaster]

i feel like everybody missed this

*head explodes*

[Klokinator]

Eventiel hasn't been around for years. It's been around for maybe a single year, maybe a tad longer, but not years. I don't even know anyone who uses it, or if they do they're too ashamed to admit it?

In any case, I think you missed some points, Cam. You can open multiple editors for FEXNA and edit the same game without constantly closing the editors off when you make changes in one section. For example, I can edit class stats, character stats, item stats, weapon stats, and events all at the same time, and save all of them without overwriting anything. That's definitely easier.

Animation is also much easier too.

The editors themselves are also much more organized.

Putting units ingame with the unit placer is also easier.

Editing world map events is WAY easier.

Linking chapters together is pitifully easy.

Etc.

[RandomSwordmaster]

so.....yay? *searches up eventiel* O.O I AM SAVED!

*tries to use for 5 mins* NO FE8 ASSETS!? NO STAT EDITING!? *goes to cry in corner*

Edited November 26, 2014 by RandomSwordmaster

[CT075]

Eventiel hasn't been around for years. It's been around for maybe a single year, maybe a tad longer, but not years. I don't even know anyone who uses it, or if they do they're too ashamed to admit it?

It's been three years. I helped Cedar create it; it was released quietly on TEB while the Zhack existed but hadn't become a thing yet (which incidentally happened at FEE3 two years ago)

wrt "nobody uses it", that's exactly why i brought it up; it's an amazing tool that simplifies things by a ridiculous margin, yet nobody seems to think of it when they complain about events being too hard

In any case, I think you missed some points, Cam. You can open multiple editors for FEXNA and edit the same game without constantly closing the editors off when you make changes in one section. For example, I can edit class stats, character stats, item stats, weapon stats, and events all at the same time, and save all of them without overwriting anything. That's definitely easier.

I can do that with a ROMhack too, you just need to keep track of your editors. maybe more convenient, not really difficult

i will admit that convenience is also a legitimate reason to use XNA

Animation is also much easier too

inserting gifs is handy, sure. forgot about that one

on the other hand, unless it can magically add sound effects and guess when to drain hp (etc), it's only marginally more difficult. yes, scripting an animation is hard, but you don't need to! you can insert things frame by frame with FEditor, which won't be a whole lot different than doing it in XNA because you'll need to go through each frame of the gif to add in effects anyway!

The editors themselves are also much more organized.

what does this even mean? are the interfaces better? are they put into their folders in a more organized fashion? literally the only thing this complaint resolves to that makes sense would be that certain editors edit unexpected things, which is straight false

Putting units ingame with the unit placer is also easier.

this is events, which i admitted were easier

Editing world map events is WAY easier.

this is also events

Linking chapters together is pitifully easy.

this is literally a button in eventiel Edited November 26, 2014 by CT075

[RandomSwordmaster]

Tried to use eventiel, simple enough for me to understand, but too restricted....no fe8 assets or item editing = sad

[CT075]

yeah, lack of fe8 assets is annoying; iirc they don't exist because cedar couldn't figure out how to into fe8 events so she didn't trust herself to automate them

E:

stat editing isn't a thing because you're not supposed to do them in events (you can, but i wouldn't recommend it). i'd imagine editing items and character stats in XNA would do the same thing you're supposed to do with a ROMhack - open up a new editor

Edited November 26, 2014 by CT075

[RandomSwordmaster]

1. cedar's a girl!? :o

2. i no can use eventiel for fe8 :C

Edited November 26, 2014 by RandomSwordmaster

[CT075]

i'm not going to look down on you for waiting for fexna; there are a ton of legitimate reasons to do so

"nightmare is too hard" is not one of them

[RandomSwordmaster]

.....*unable to think of counter-argument* gg

[Brendor]

Bottom line is if you can't hack a rom, you probably can't program a game

[RandomSwordmaster]

Bottom line is if you can't hack a rom, you probably can't program a game

Probably. When I'm not being swarmed with homework and my mom decides to let me have freedom again, ill get back to figuring this out.

[Brendor]

The ultimate tutorial is always good to check out

[Klokinator]

It's been three years. I helped Cedar create it; it was released quietly on TEB while the Zhack existed but hadn't become a thing yet (which incidentally happened at FEE3 two years ago)

I see, didn't know that.

wrt "nobody uses it", that's exactly why i brought it up; it's an amazing tool that simplifies things by a ridiculous margin, yet nobody seems to think of it when they complain about events being too hard

Good point!

I can do that with a ROMhack too, you just need to keep track of your editors. maybe more convenient, not really difficult

i will admit that convenience is also a legitimate reason to use XNA

Yeah, that's a better way of putting it. I'm mainly referring to this:

Open multiple instances of this editor, point to the same project, and you never have to close off an editor, reopen, and repoint to the file again. You just save and refresh, maybe not even refresh. Much easier and more convenient.

inserting gifs is handy, sure. forgot about that one

on the other hand, unless it can magically add sound effects and guess when to drain hp (etc), it's only marginally more difficult. yes, scripting an animation is hard, but you don't need to! you can insert things frame by frame with FEditor, which won't be a whole lot different than doing it in XNA because you'll need to go through each frame of the gif to add in effects anyway!

True enough, but it's still easier when you have easy-mode buttons for realignment and the like and you don't have to edit each frame with GIMP/whatever when your animation is slightly misaligned. A real time and half-speed preview along with multiple zoom levels is also great.

what does this even mean? are the interfaces better? are they put into their folders in a more organized fashion? literally the only thing this complaint resolves to that makes sense would be that certain editors edit unexpected things, which is straight false

Organized, as in the nightmare editors go by the position of data in the ROM for the editable fields. For example...

Look at all those unknown bytes. 4 inventory slots only editable when a unit has 5? Lots of other confusing things.

Wanna edit the character name or description? Gotta open up FEditor, save the rom (To fix the header), reopen FEditor, make the change, save the rom, close nightmare, reopen nightmare, reload the rom and module, then scroll back down to the character, etc. In FEXNA you just edit the description.

More unknown bytes too, followed by base stats, wexp levels, then growths, then a wall of unknown bytes, character abilities, support bytes (No new person even knows that that means), and even more unknown bytes. Granted, FE8's modules are pretty incomplete, but still.

Then compare with character data in FEXNA.

WAY easier to pick up and learn, far less confusing.

this is events, which i admitted were easier

Nope, I'm referring to this:

Way better than using a CUE module or a text-based event editor.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Klokinator

[RandomSwordmaster]

FEXNA looks FAR easier to use than Nightmare....TIME TO WAIT FOR FEXNA....not that i would have time to work on this right now anyway.

[Brendor]

XNA is more user friendly but it's work as in there is no "create the game for me" button

[RandomSwordmaster]

I mean that its easier to use in many ways, in that its less confusing. I still know this will take time :p

[Brendor]

Mkay

Just seems like a shame to postpone a project because of stuff like that

[RandomSwordmaster]

I know :C But it will be finished eventually!

[Primefusion]

Look at all those unknown bytes. 4 inventory slots only editable when a unit has 5? Lots of other confusing things.

Nightmare displays how the data is represented in the ROM itself. You can't edit the 5th item because units cannot start with 5 items.

Several of your Nightmare complaints are not the program's fault.

[CT075]

Nope, I'm referring to this:

that is literally a button in eventiel

[Klokinator]

That doesn't matter, I'm talking about editing roms vs using fexna. Roms are inherently harder to work with, and if the data is aligned badly in the rom, it'll be aligned poorly in the editor. Meanwhile, you can alter FEXNA's editor however you want, and they come out of the box making sense.

[CT075]

"making sense" is subjective

unknown bytes is one thing, that's something that can be improved

other than that i honestly find the XNA layout to be more immediately intimidating (and confusing) because there's more information (plus miscellaneous bells and whistles) packed into a smaller space

[Klokinator]

Never mind that it has tooltips for everything.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Klokinator