Nobles Only Run of Awakening - Now in Progress

[Anacybele]

If you're basing this off of people who are of noble birth, then the Avatar doesn't count. He/She wasn't BORN a prince/princess since Validar becomes king of Plegia later. :P

The Grimleal being nobles is debatable since there's no evidence indicating that they are or aren't.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Anacybele

[mercilesscharizard]

If you're basing this off of people who are of noble birth, then the Avatar doesn't count. He/She wasn't BORN a prince/princess since Validar becomes king of Plegia later. :P

The Grimleal being nobles is debatable since there's no evidence indicating that they are or aren't.

You're definitely right about that, but here's what I was thinking earlier: if Tiki is a direct descendant of Naga, that would, in a sense, make her nobility among dragons, whereas Grima is a dark god among the dragons, meaning if the avatar IS Grima, that would make him a "noble scion" to the dark dragon, which, if I have this right, equates to being born to a dark side of nobility. Also, the avatar IS a main character, so I thought that would add up to something (even being required for chapter 23), but either way...

Edited September 4, 2014 by mercilesscharizard

[Anacybele]

True, I guess that makes enough sense. It's your call anyway. lol

[mercilesscharizard]

I'm still heavily debating on putting Sumia in even though I don't think she's exactly of noble birth, but I can't find anything that says or hints otherwise and Nintendo doesn't like to provide detailed BACKSTORY!! *ahem* Sorry about that. Also, for Sully, it's still a big debate since I feel that being an Ylissean knight doesn't really mean being a scion of nobility, but if this is the middle ages where royal knights counted as nobles, then I might plan on it (if I add Sully back in, that might give me incentive to add Frederick, but I wouldn't know if he was born a knight or what). Either way, I'm trying to keep the basis on a higher standard of royal blood. Looking closer, I can kind of see it, but I don't want to leave anything to chance nor do I want to enter a character with holes in logic. In retrospect, however, filling them in does fill the gender ratio gap, but, we'll see. It probably won't be decided for another week.

[Anacybele]

We do know that Frederick was born into a family that served the Ylisse royals for generations. He says so in a DLC convo with Virion. This is another reason why I think he is from a noble family. A common family that lives in a village deep in the hills couldn't have possibly served Ylisse royals as closely as he does for so long. xP

And this doesn't even need to take into account how doting he is. He clearly attends meetings with Chrom too because he is not present in the Shepherds' garrison at the time Chrom meets with Emmeryn at the beginning of the game. And Freddy seems to know Emmeryn pretty well.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Anacybele

[mercilesscharizard]

...I think I need to take a breather before my brain starts to hurt. #toomuchinformationallatonce

[Anacybele]

Ah, dang, I'm sorry then lol. Being a big fan of Frederick, I went and learned a lot about him, so yeah. Didn't mean to overwhelm you. XD

[mercilesscharizard]

Ah, dang, I'm sorry then lol. Being a big fan of Frederick, I went and learned a lot about him, so yeah. Didn't mean to overwhelm you. XD

Haha! It's fine. I just wanted a small respite from the information dump. I'm fine now. Still hoping I can find some more intel, though. May have to search deeper in.

[Anacybele]

Ah, kay then. Research is always a good idea for things like this, definitely. :)

[mercilesscharizard]

Well, one last update before I turn in (this must be a new record), but I thought of a theory that COULD work for Sumia, because I couldn't find much more information (even her endings didn't shed a whole ton of light). One thing I thought was possible is that she might be under the same scenario as Ricken where her family fell on hard times and she's trying to help restore it. Like I said, this is only a theory that more than likely isn't true since it isn't expressed in any part of her dialogue, BUT some characters have a foggy backstory, so it is still a possibility that was never brought up to the surface. Once again, it might be very far-fetched, but it's something I've pondered for a little while. If she IS highly implied to be a noble, the theory has at least a 38% chance of being plausible, mostly due to her endings only revealing that she traded her weapon for a field to raise pegasi.

[Roivann]

Since most of the doubt on who "might be" not a noble comes from varying knightly traditions from various historical cultures, would it be easier to just throw out any of the characters who are of uncertain nobility? If you're grinding and/or using legacy characters, hard mode is definitely doable without Frederick, Sully, Kjelle, etc.

Edit: Speaking of legacy characters, I kind of sort of put together a list of the bonus team characters who are of noble birth.

Prince Marth

Caeda

Linde? She's pontifex miloah's daughter.

Nyna

Minerva

Tiki? The discussion earlier in the thread.

Alm

Celica

King Marth

Hardin

Sigurd

Deirdre

Quan

Ethlyn

Ayra

Jamke

Raquesis

Lewyn

Arvis

Seliph

Julia

Larcei

Ulster

Arthur

Fee

Ced

Ares

Altena

Julius

Ishtar

Travant

Leif

Nanna

Raydrik

Roy

Lilina

Zephiel

Eliwood

Hector

Lyn?

Ephraim

Eirika

Innes

L'Arachel

Lyon

Elincia

Geoffrey

Ashnard

Micaiah

Leonardo

Sanaki

Sephiran

Oliver

Edit Part 2: Re-edited: I did some research as to Linde's case for noble status. The title of pontifex comes from Ancient Rome. The pontifices were high-ranking priests, and the Pontifex Maximus was the highest and rankingest of them all. Ancient Roman social hierarchy has two major groups, determined by family wealth and status: the plebeians (the lower class, drawing parallels with commoners) and the patricians (the upper class, drawing parallels with Warriors, the best class in Fire Emblem nobility). The pontifices belonged to the patrician class, mostly. And that's the problem with this thought process: while there is a high ratio of patrician pontifices to plebeian ones, a plebeian joining the ranks of pontifices is not entirely unheard of, especially in later Roman periods, because these two social classes were not as rigidly defined as those found in Fire Emblem and the feudal Western Europe it takes heavy inspiration from. So, I guess Linde's nobility is a toss-up.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Rollertoaster

[Buttocksinator]

If you're basing this off of people who are of noble birth, then the Avatar doesn't count. He/She wasn't BORN a prince/princess since Validar becomes king of Plegia later. :P

The Grimleal being nobles is debatable since there's no evidence indicating that they are or aren't.

You're forgetting that Plegia is a Theocracy dedicated to Grima. Validar is the Grimleal equivalent to the Catholic Pope, and at one point the Pope had as much (or more) power as a king. A noble is someone with high social standing, not necessarily a prince or princess.

If you want to get technical, Virion and Ricken can't be classified as nobles during the course of the game because Virion lost his lands to Walhart and Ricken's house fell into disrepair (i.e. out of social standing). They were still born noble though. As for Sumia, no, not unless it's specifically stated otherwise (and to my knowledge it is not). I agree with Rollertoaster though, if their nobility is in question just don't use them.

[eclipse]

Different angle for Sumia: How common do you think literacy is in Ylisse, for non-nobles? She mentions lots of reading and writing, which means that someone sat her down and taught her how to do that.

On the other side, there's the Robin/Sumia S, which sort of implies the opposite. Your run, your call~!

[Anacybele]

Geoffrey is noble birth. House Delbray. :P And I believe he has Spotpass.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Shouldn't Micaiah be on the list of SpotPass characters as well?

It is discovered at the end of the game she's Sanaki's sister and was meant to be the true Apostle.

[Roivann]

Geoffrey is noble birth. House Delbray. :P And I believe he has Spotpass.

Shouldn't Micaiah be on the list of SpotPass characters as well?

It is discovered at the end of the game she's Sanaki's sister and was meant to be the true Apostle.

Okay, adding them to the list. Sorry, the Tellius series is the two FE games I'm least familiar with, so if anyone catches any more nobles I missed from those games, or anyone not from those games, for that matter. Edited September 5, 2014 by Rollertoaster

[Anacybele]

Also, actually, Ashnard WAS born into royalty, it's just that there were a bunch of other family members ahead of him in line for the Daein throne. He just went and killed all of them off with a Blood Pact.

It's kinda spoilery, sorry... But it's helpful info.

[mercilesscharizard]

Right now I'm still trying to decide on a verdict for some characters, but I'll need to discuss it a bit more with some people, mainly the people who had shown me the supports for Sully and Sumia. I'd prefer PM, but if I need to do Skype, wait until about 6:30 since that's when I usually get home.

Edited September 5, 2014 by mercilesscharizard

[mercilesscharizard]

After enough conversation and bouncing around a few theories with Sangyul and Thor Odinson, I've finally reached a verdict for both Sully and Sumia:

Through one support, as I'm sure you all may already know, it is revealed that Sully is born to a family of knights. She also makes a point that the title of knighthood is earned by his/her duties and not from inheritance, which is why she works hard. Another thing that helps her case is her relation to Chrom: they have been friends since they were kids, so if Chrom is the soon-to-be-exalted prince, it could be implied that Sully's family could very well be one of Ylisse's high-standing houses, similar in a sense to Ricken if you leave out the part where his family's name was put into rubble.

Sumia's case was hard to decide (me and Sangyul talked a good deal about her situation--of course he knew WAY more than I did so most of this is his findings). Through all intensive purposes, none of her backstory is revealed. AT ALL. Not her parents, not her social standing, nothing. There is evidence that swings both ways for her, though.

Proof Supporting Nobility: A few support conversations and a few DLC lines speak in favor of her having noble blood. For example, in Gauis and Sumia's C-support, bee larvae is said to be a favorite delicacy among high society in Ylisstol. If it were true, her knowing this for a fact helps her case. Another support between her and Sully states that she bought a rare blend of tea from a merchant which could have been of high monetary value due to how hard it is to find. Now let's compare her Summer Scramble dialogue with Maribelle in accordance with supports between Maribelle and Olivia. Maribelle tends to refer to everyone of low social standing as a commoner of some worth (look at Chapter 5 for some extra proof). However, she doesn't refer to Sumia in the same manner and calls her a friend during the second part of the Summer conversation AND she was willing to help Sumia improve on things such as posture or, more to what seems to stick out, self-confidence. Jump back to Robin and Sumia's S-support conversation. Robin never reiterates his low social standing to either Lissa or Maribelle who are obviously nobles by birth. This is only revealed to Sumia in their S-support, which could imply that she comes from a rich family and in the old days, typically if you were rich, you were a noble.

Proof Against Nobility: All of Sumia's endings aside from two reveal that she exchanges her weapon for a patch of land to raise pegasi and she does flower fortunes which are pretty much beloved by all Ylissean townsfolk. If I'm right, nobles in real life haven't always had their own plantations for livestock or anything close to what could be called pets in this particular case. Also, referring back to the S-support mentioned, the "princess" part isn't much stock if he was talking figuratively. Another thing to consider is her line in the Golden Gaffe. The "That's all I have" part could mean she doesn't have easy access to the funds to pay for any accidents normally. However, Lissa's small nest egg of three gold could mean that Sumia doesn't really harbor money brought from home or she just pays a lot to repair any fixes.

Judging by the evidence on both sides of the balance, it's still not clear for both ways, but depending on how you look at her past (however you decide to make it) she could or could not qualify. To me, the majority of the evidence seems to point her out as a noble (54-58% if I can do numbers right) so I've decided to as her in along with Sully and Kjelle and Cynthia. I can understand any disagreements that people may have on the subject, but I'm pretty sure about my facts, not to mention I needed A way to fill the gender ratio gap.

[Alastor15243]

Why didn't you mention that Gaius flat out calls Sumia a noble in their support?

[mercilesscharizard]

If I haven't seen that part, I must have horrible bad sight...but someone would have mentioned that by now instead of the theory perspective for the entire thing. Sure I read it, but I didn't see where Gaius went out and said it. Hang on, let me look again.

[mercilesscharizard]

Gaius :

Heh heh. There's bound to be a hive around here somewhere. Plus, this meadow of tall flowers should hide me from that oddball noblewoman...

...well...that says a lot. *facepalm* How the heck did I miss that? ...ah well. All's done and good, so it's not that big of a deal.

[Valzy]

What about Panne? Since she's the last Taguel alive, she's the "ruler" of the Taguel by default

[mercilesscharizard]

What about Panne? Since she's the last Taguel alive, she's the "ruler" of the Taguel by default

Panne actually says that everyone in Taguel society is equal, so being the last surviving member doesn't actually count, especially since it isn't in a similar manner to Laguz Royals where there are different levels if I have my facts right.

[mercilesscharizard]

...does anyone happen to know where I can get a good quality camera? I did a test recording just a minute ago and the audio sounds horrendous! It sounds like what you would hear underwater when a song is at full blast! Video quality wasn't really great, either, but that just might be me not using the same settings for *insert voice actor joke video plug here* to where it's worth looking at. Nonetheless, it may take me a while to find a better camera than the Logitech camera I got. I do have another one, but I keep thinking it can only record segments to a certain length. Why am I cursed with still being in high school??!

EDIT: On second thought, I'll try to work with things a little bit more.

Edited September 6, 2014 by mercilesscharizard