[Spoilers]SSB4 Leaks Discussion

[WIRE Shut]

I can't belive I'm posting this on the third topic but here is a guy on smashboard who is acctually trying to find differences:

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-moveset-data-analysis-thread.367457/

And by the time I posted this his verdict has been:

Just reporting that Marth and Lucina are entirely identical with the only differences being that Lucina does 1% - 2% more damage if Marth doesn't tipper. It's also good news for us that Marth's F-Air tipper was nerfed to be really small. But aside from that, I haven't found anything that one does that the other can't in terms of movement and attack speed.

For the remaining descriptions to moves, I will get to them today but Lucina has identical moves to Marth so the throws are all the same. I'd like to take a break from research for a bit and actually play the game for a little while. I'll keep at this then.

So there is vey little difference, heck, what I've seen of Marths moveset (and Lucinas), the default dacing blade, Marth lunges his blades instead of slashes like he used too, which in turn gives him tippers since he does exactly that, stabs instead of slashes.

Of what I've seen, Marth has been more specialised, but it seems that his moveset has been adapted to it.

Thats my 2 cents of speculation which can still be proven completely wrong when I acctually get the game.

Thanks, I actually had a look at the percentage changes but it is nice to see it again, but during the stream Lucina look way faster than Marth, she looked like what I think is what Melee Marth was speed-wise, might just be stream lag or something but if he looked in depth into that I have nothing to complain.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Deino

[ClassyWolf]

So Lucina is the cloniest clone ever to the point where a casual player would literally not be able to notice a difference, but Dark Pit gets a few unique moves and even a unique final smash?

The Sakurai bias is real on this one.

The thing with Lucina and Marth is also, as I said, that while Marth seems more specialised, his movset seems to be more adapted to it with more lunges than he had in brawl to get more tippers in. So I'm kinda reluctant to even call Lucina a Marth on training wheels, cause he doesen't seem to need one.

And yeah, why I wasn't imidietely ready to call Dark Pit a clone is due to Uprisings arsenal, I could think of things to have him use to make him different.

Btw, ins't Doc Mario also unique from Mario? just asking cause I haven't seen him yet.

[Anacybele]

Oh, also, of the custom moves that the Treehouse's custom Ike had.

They showed an Eruption that had a lot of smoke on it. Volcanic Eruption? That'd be a sweet name. lol

The Aether this Ike used though, it got used so fast that I couldn't really pinpoint the differences, but it looked like Ragnell had gotten a...bright glow? I think?

Edited September 12, 2014 by Anacybele

[Florete]

Btw, ins't Doc Mario also unique from Mario? just asking cause I haven't seen him yet.

From what I heard, Doc is basically Melee Mario, so Mario without Fludd, basically the same idea as Dark Pit. His final smash, though, is the same except with pills instead of fireballs.

[Robert Stewart]

Btw, ins't Doc Mario also unique from Mario? just asking cause I haven't seen him yet.

He's Mario but with the Tornado as a down special. There's some other general gameplay stuff for him here.

From what I heard, Doc is basically Melee Mario, so Mario without Fludd, basically the same idea as Dark Pit. His final smash, though, is the same except with pills instead of fireballs.

some other things people have noticed is that his dair is single hit now with horizontal knockbak. It's similar to Luigi's.

Edited September 12, 2014 by shinpichu

[Carter]

GO PEACH!

ALL TIME RECORD 18 FEET IN HOME RUN CONTEST!

[Samias]

The roster is like a 9/10 for me. I mean, a lot of people are obviously mad that we have three extreme clones and the cuts suck, but honestly there is huge diversity in the newcomers. Plus there's been a huge amount of work into the veterans to make playing them feel better than ever. Even in the demo, Link and Mario have been HUGELY overhauled and they feel great to play compared to how they were.

Still sucks losing Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf. They were really cool. But I never expected Snake to return, especially after Konami stuck Raiden in Playstation All-Stars and the fact that MGS's connection to Nintendo is tenuous at best these days. And Squirtle and Ivysaur were obvious casualties after Charizard was revealed. But I think the rest of the roster is really, really good. There are characters I personally wanted to see who didn't make it in, like Isaac (who is gone completely, I blame GSDD being..............................), but there are so many newcomers and revamped veterans I want to play that I have almost felt overloaded with every reveal.

[metalsnowman3]

From what I heard, Doc is basically Melee Mario, so Mario without Fludd, basically the same idea as Dark Pit. His final smash, though, is the same except with pills instead of fireballs.

Lol does he shoot like a million pills or something?

In melee, doctor mario was barely different than mario with slightly different damage and landing lags for their moves and reg mario could wall jumb after Up-B but doc couldn't. I wonder if those differences will be the same/similar.

I'm really curious to see the custom special moves on some of these characters as well, so if any vids pop up and you see em link em please :)

[Magical Glace]

So basically, of the clones, Lucina, the character farthest from the one she clones, has absolutely no difference from him besides "oh, she can't tipper©"

I hope that Sakurai didn't stoop that low. Her having everything else identical to Marth would be almost as bad as Marth getting cut altogether because he was basically ruined.

[Anacybele]

The Treehouse showed a few customized characters including Ike and Yoshi, so vids of them should pop up. :)

[metalsnowman3]

So basically, of the clones, Lucina, the character farthest from the one she clones, has absolutely no difference from him besides "oh, she can't tipper©"

I hope that Sakurai didn't stoop that low. Her having everything else identical to Marth would be almost as bad as Marth getting cut altogether because he was basically ruined.

Well I mean Roy was basically marth with a sour spot at tip and sweet spot in the middle-ish, and a fast faller. Have there been movement speed and fall speed comparisons already?

[Magical Glace]

Well I mean Roy was basically marth with a sour spot at tip and sweet spot in the middle-ish, and a fast faller. Have there been movement speed and fall speed comparisons already?

Apparently, in the speculative post That One Person posted.

I'm simply ranting at how much I hope it's not true because of how completely stupid it sounds.

[Carter]

YASSSSSS PEACH VS. LINK

SLAY! SLAY LINK

Edited September 12, 2014 by Carter

[solrocknroll]

So Lucina is the cloniest clone ever to the point where a casual player would literally not be able to notice a difference, but Dark Pit gets a few unique moves and even a unique final smash?

The Sakurai bias is real on this one.

Don't even start.

Dark Pit Staff is like literally Light Arrow.

"Oh, DP has a different Final Smash than Pit, but is still a rip off Final Smash oh noes"

And Dark Pit's "differences" are so slight that his slightly stronger-ness without as much speed is like, clone 101, where a difference in attack and speed is normally... Exactly that.

Ugh, I'm so sick of all the Dark Pit whining that I actually HAVE to white knight him.

Because you KNOW you have bias towards Lucina, so something he has different, but she doesn't is just terrible.

And Lucina is my favorite newcomer, so you know I'm not biased against her, you're biased against Dark Pit.

[Florete]

Don't even start.

Dark Pit Staff is like literally Light Arrow.

"Oh, DP has a different Final Smash than Pit, but is still a rip off Final Smash oh noes"

And Dark Pit's "differences" are so slight that his slightly stronger-ness without as much speed is like, clone 101, where a difference in attack and speed is normally... Exactly that.

Ugh, I'm so sick of all the Dark Pit whining that I actually HAVE to white knight him.

Because you KNOW you have bias towards Lucina, so something he has different, but she doesn't is just terrible.

And Lucina is my favorite newcomer, so you know I'm not biased against her, you're biased against Dark Pit.

I'm definitely biased against Dark Pit, but that doesn't mean my "whining" isn't justified.

A bunch of characters basically have "cloned" final smashes. Just count the number of characters who have "hit character in front of you for a lot of damage and knockback." That's not the point. The point is that two of the three clones have the exact same final smash as their base character (with aesthetic differences for Dr. Mario) while the other has a new one that no one else has, particularly the character he is based off. And wouldn't you know, the "other" is a character Sakurai created from a series he revived, a series that already is in every corner of this game. This character is also the least unique and deserving by their own right; Dr. Mario is a Melee veteran and Lucina is an entirely different person and character, while Dark Pit is literally just a Pit palette swap that managed to get a role in Kid Icarus: Uprising.

Sakurai didn't even bother to give Lucina an Awakening-styled cut in for her critical like we see with Chrom in Robin's final smash (so clearly this concept was on the table).

Looking at the facts now, I honestly wonder if it wouldn't have been better to just have Lucina as a Marth alt after all. Lacking a tipper and having no other differences is even more cloney than the Melee clones, and being an alt would take away all the hatred she gets from clone haters. Dr. Mario at least has something legitimate to justify a new slot, but Dark Pit is just Sakurai taking the easy route on buffing the roster and then showing extra favoritism.

The fact of the matter is that I wouldn't complain (at least in this way) if the clones had all been treated equally, but that isn't the case.

[kingddd]

Duck hunt dog is looking so awesome. That explosive barrel move that he throws is freaking amazing considering you can control and detonate it anytime you want is so cheap and I love it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by kingddd

[Phoenix Wright]

clones should not exist in the first place. they're wastes of space.

edit: dhd does look great! i was excited to use him and shulk before, but now that i've seen them in real action, i'm extremely excited! the gameplay and look from the 3ds version has surpassed my expectations by quite a bit. i always thought the game would be fun, but it looks amazing. of course the wii u version was always gonna be amazing haha.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Phoenix Wright

[Comet]

clones should not exist in the first place. they're wastes of space.

correction: wastes of space that aren't time consuming to make

[solrocknroll]

Yeah, really enjoy the spitting upon Dark Pit.

Ugh, when he's cut next game, you'll all be upset that he was cut, and that we are losing a valuable character.

Of course, Dark Pit is SO obviously less than a character and DESERVES to be beat upon relentlessly.

Of course, I totally enjoy the spiteful attitude that so many of you have towards Dark Pit. I've said this so many times that saying stuff like that feels like an attack towards me, because I'm very clearly the only one here who likes Dark Pit.

I need to main Dark Pit then, I guess.

[Phoenix Wright]

correction: wastes of space that aren't time consuming to make

time that could have gone to literally anything else more deserving of it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Phoenix Wright

[Comet]

time that could have gone to literally anything else more deserving of it.

like what, a trophy?

[Florete]

Yeah, really enjoy the spitting upon Dark Pit.

Ugh, when he's cut next game, you'll all be upset that he was cut, and that we are losing a valuable character.

Of course, Dark Pit is SO obviously less than a character and DESERVES to be beat upon relentlessly.

Of course, I totally enjoy the spiteful attitude that so many of you have towards Dark Pit. I've said this so many times that saying stuff like that feels like an attack towards me, because I'm very clearly the only one here who likes Dark Pit.

I need to main Dark Pit then, I guess.

I'm a person who thinks 4/5 of the Melee cuts (Mewtwo being the one) were completely reasonable cuts and I don't support any of them returning. While it's a bit of a shame due to them being unique players, I'm also not particularly sad about the losses of Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur, because their exclusion makes sense for their own reasons. I don't think I'll be at all sad if Dark Pit doesn't return next game. Hell, if Lucina doesn't get used in another Fire Emblem game, I don't even think I'll be too sad if she isn't in the next Smash Bros., because I'll understand that it makes perfect sense.

Note: I am neutral about Dr. Mario returning.

[Nightmare]

time that could have gone to literally anything else more deserving of it.

Time that was not enough for anything else, and that's what I see of the whole clone business. Jesus, I don't like clones as much as the next person, but this is getting a little ridiculous.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nightmare

[solrocknroll]

time that could have gone to literally anything else more deserving of it.

no

lucina and dark pit will never be taken from me

[Phoenix Wright]

like what, a trophy?

literally anything else more deserving of it.

doesn't matter what.

Time that was not enough for anything else, and that's what I see of the whole clone business. Jesus, I don't like clones as much as the next person, but this is getting a little ridiculous.

i'm the only one who feels this strongly about clones, and it's been this way for me since melee. honestly, haha. i really, really dislike clones and i find it to be extremely lazy.

i should remember to ask my game designer friends how they feel about it when i get the chance. as far as i can tell, there's always work to be done--devoting time to creating the same characters in a different skin seems like a huge waste of time. well, it probably earns them more money in some ways, so it does have a purpose. but i don't agree on principle.

no

lucina and dark pit will never be taken from me

well, i certainly won't be the one to stop you. but i can be super bitter about it.