Good characters for FE8 speed run

[momogeek2141]

Hello all, I'm thinking of doing an FE8 speed run. However, I'm not sure what promotions of characters to use. Can you guys just let me know what characters I should use and what to promote them into?

EDIT: I'm also challenging myself NOT to grind in the tower of valni.

Edited September 19, 2014 by momogeek2141

[Elieson]

Seth Vanessa!Wyvern Knt Franz!paladin kyle!paladin gerik!ranger Tana!Wyvern Knt

Seth Seth Seth seth

[ZemZem]

Really, all you need is Seth.

Probably some others like Vanessa and Gerik along the way, but Seth Seth Seth is the way to go.

[Elieson]

Naw you always want extra muscle for Chapter Easter Egg Hunt

[General Horace]

between eirika/ephraim/seth/syrene/cavaliers/gerik that's usually enough to kill most of the eggs

don't think vanessa is actually that useful except for chapter 7 tbh

[Elieson]

Oh Saleh is probably good to, so he can Warp Seth across the Chasm in chapter ?20?

[General Horace]

i don't know if its actually worth spending time spamming end turn and spamming staves with saleh to actually get him to warp

probably faster to suicide syrene or something

[momogeek2141]

Also what route to take? I personally prefer Tana to Vanessa or Syrene, so I'm thinking of Eirika's route. (That means losing out on Cormag though, I finished that chapter in 3 turns last time IIRC.) I'm definitely going to use Seth, though. Also some things:

L'Arachel worth using?

Lute: MK or Sage? (Probably MK)

Trainees? (Probably won't use Ewan)

Neimi?

[Elieson]

Eirika Route.

Who cares about Cormag? Not a speedrunner, that's who.

Amelia? No way. Maybe recruit her for the speedwing she carries and then politely introduce her to the bench for the rest of her life.

Ewan? NEVAR

L'arachel? No. Posssssibly as an extra staffbot

Neimi? Maybe for chip here and there.

Ross? Same, but not long term.

Joshua? Nah too puny

Garcia. He'd be decent here and there for Rout-all-the-enemy chapters

Lute? You shouldn't even visit her village, and she'll be very weak by the time you would utilize her for any rout chapters.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Sara.

[dondon151]

the FE8 TAS uses vanessa iirc

i have no idea how much speedrunning experience the TC has, because most of his considerations are subpar. if he wants a legitimately competitive real-time speedrun, he should refer to vykan's TAS and speedrun strategies and learn how to RNG abuse.

EDIT: warp is no good in FE8 speedruns because as horace said, staff rank takes too long to build.

Edited September 19, 2014 by dondon151

[momogeek2141]

I have NO speed running experience at all, I want to try it for the first time. Also, I don't want to use a walkthrough because it's not fun that way. (Unless it's FE12 Lunatic, where I can't beat the prologue without one.)

[Elieson]

Good point dondon. I misinterpreted speedrun as ltc for reasons even I can't explain right now. Probably sleep deprivation.

@OP: So you want to do a FE8 Speedrun using info from only your memory? Have you planned anything for this?

[dondon151]

I have NO speed running experience at all, I want to try it for the first time. Also, I don't want to use a walkthrough because it's not fun that way. (Unless it's FE12 Lunatic, where I can't beat the prologue without one.)

it's not a walkthrough; it's a reference. it's compiled data for what are the best decisions to make to minimize play time.

there are certain things that you must do if you want to cut down your time by a substantial amount. you must learn how to manipulate the RNG. you must learn how to optimize map and menu movement. you must learn where to cut down on actions and how to use the fewest number of units possible. if you're not willing to at least somewhat commit to those things, then any speedrunning advice that would conform to your expectations would be contrary to actual sound speedrunning advice.

it is much easier to learn speedrunning if you start from a good base. if you start by getting into all these habits like training up staff rank for warp or using more than the bare minimum, you're not doing yourself a favor. even from a good base, you should be able to brainstorm possible ways to improve a route.

Edited September 19, 2014 by dondon151

[momogeek2141]

Can I have a link then? Any advice would be nice, I misinterpreted it as a walkthrough. Also, is there ANY use for mages in a speed run? It would make cyclops really easy, thus cutting turns. And I never use warp in the GBA games. Are dancers useful?

Edited September 19, 2014 by momogeek2141

[Elieson]

Using mages to kill cyclops [for the purpose of a speedrun] is extremely inefficient. You have to pool resources into a unit that can take few, if any, attacks to the face before they die, which means restarts upon restarts to 'rig' RNG in your mage's favor. Saleh is the only magic user you should concern yourself with for the purposes of Combat (and Lute/Artur for the rare earlygame need, but even then, you really shouldn't) They have low movement and low durability, and can't keep up with the demands of a high-speed run like what you're intending to do.

I've dabbled in a bit of speedrunning and have made use of Artur for one or two turns worth of combat, and that was it. I can't recall lute doing anything, as you do not want people unecessarily engaging in combat. Even with animations turned off, you're seeing about a 2 second waste of time to give someone experience that you don't care about in the long run.

[dondon151]

vykan's TAS run (HM eirika route iirc) in 1:08.51: http://tasvideos.org/3214S.html

vykan's real-time run, eirika route, in 1:17:31:

vykan's real-time run, ephraim route, in 1:14:42:

Edited September 19, 2014 by dondon151

[momogeek2141]

Ok, I meant a "low turn count run." There's no way I will make a low time. @videos. Damn, that's fast.

Edited September 19, 2014 by momogeek2141

[dondon151]

if you're interested in LTC, i think general horace has a run lying around here somewhere.

[General Horace]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF91E59E8C9043625

theres a playlist for an old outdated one that I plan to improve someday, i think 68-70 turn is what i'll aim for when I redo it, the old run is 84 turns.

and here are some notes i found on a notepad doc that are really really lazy but if you can make some sense of them, go ahead.

PROLOGUE

- virtually the same as any run, standard

OLD RUN 1/1 TURNS

EIRIKA 1.32

SETH 1.49

NEW TURN

EIRIKA 1.32

SETH 1,49

CHAPTER 1

- better exp allocation allows Franz to level here, unarming seth on turn 1 so he can kill the two fighters nearest the start

OLD RUN 3/4 TURNS

NEW RUN 3/4 TURNS

didn't record stats but Franz has like ~40 more exp

CHAPTER 2

- considered rigging Eirika crits on the boss and a fighter to the south to get her more exp, but it turns out she doesn't really need it as much as I thought.

- I make sure Garcia/Ross miss the archer to the far right so Vanessa can kill it, he has to have 4 speed so Garcia doesn't double.

OLD/NEW 4/8-4/8 TURNS

FRANZ 2.14/2.49

EIRIKA 1.62/3.07

VANESSA 1.00/2.12

SETH 2.61/2.44

CHAPTER 3

- having more levels on Eirika allows me to be able to drop her so Seth doesn't eat all the exp, saving some for Franz

- Vanessa needs level 3 to kill the dudes by lute village

OLD/NEW 4/12-4/12

FRANZ 2.35/3.95

EIRIKA 1.83/3.39

VANESSA 1.23/3.08

SETH 3.22/2.94

CHAPTER 4

-slight enemy stat massaging is needed, Eirika needs to be able to ORKO one of the top zombie dudes to level up in str to guarentee a kill on the rest

- instead of having gilliam kill the north reinforcements eirika does

- instead of having garcia kill the south dudes Vanessa does

OLD/NEW 2/14-2/14 TURNS

FRANZ 3.57/5.04

EIRIKA 2.26/4.58

VANESSA 1.70/4.30

SETH 4.40/4.14

CHAPTER 5

pretty similar to old run but Gilliam and Garcia are only deployed to get a village and help others get exp

- idk if artur will be able to get as much exp since mounts are stronger overall

FRANZ 4.35/6.19

EIRIKA 2.96/5.49

VANESSA 1.82/4.95

SETH 5.28/4.89

ARTUR 3.76/3.77

OLD/NEW 3/17-3/17 TURNS

CHAPTER 5X

-hawkkings 6turn strat

- no killer lance though, will it matter? can i still kill the chapter 12 spiders?

OLD/NEW 7/24-6/23 TURNS

CHAPTER 6

- send seth north instead of through the middle, allowing Franz to get most of the middle exp

FRANZ 4.73/8.64

EIRIKA 4.06/6.19

VANESSA 2.06/6.08

SETH 6.16/5.83

ARTUR 4.60/4.10

OLD/NEW 3/27-3/26 TURNS

- sacrificed a lot of artur's exp, but I need paladin Franz for chapter 8

CHAPTER 7

- ALL THE RIGGING

- vanessa needs to dodge a ~40% hit ballista and two ~60% archers, only the ballista OHKO's

- vanessa may need dragonshield so Murray attacks Eirika instead of her despite Vanessa not being able to counter

- Eirika needs 7str/14speed to orko Murray, he uses the steel sword instead of javelin

- Franz must hit level 10

OLD/NEW 4/31-3/29 TURNS

FRANZ 5.14/10/1.00

EIRIKA 4.06/7.09

VANESSA 2.06/6.56

SETH 7.04/5.91

ARTUR 5.53/5.01

CHAPTER 8

-seth must have 18 strength so he can ORKO Tirado with the armourslayer

OLD/NEW 5/36-4/32 TURNS

FRANZ 5.14//10/1.85

EIRIKA 4.06/8.22

VANESSA 2.64/7.03

SETH 8.39/6.94

ARTUR 6.47/6.02

FORDE 8.81/8.35

CHAPTER 9

-recruit amelia for speedwings then trade them away and sacrifice her to the enemy?

OLD/NEW 6/42-5/37 TURNS

EDIT 4 turns is a thing

CHAPTER 10

OLD/NEW 3/45-3/40

EDIT 2 TURNS, is sub 70 overall a thing?

CHAPTER 11

- ranger gerik? I don't think i need the hero combat or 1-2 range and another horse with stats is awesome, also longbow

- is 4 turns possible? I think so. too lazy to look up enemy stats on the deathgoyle boss

OLD/NEW 5/50-4/44

CHAPTER 12

- i dont think 5 turns is a thing, i'd have to see how good vanessa/tana are at that point

OLD/NEW 6/56-6/50

CHAPTER 13

- 1 turn is really easy base saleh only needs one magic proc to 4HKO Aias.

OLD/NEW 2/58-1/51

CHAPTER 14

- with ranger gerik im pretty sure i can 6 turn this chapter with the ss, we'll see though thats theory emblem.

OLD/NEW 8/66-6/57

CHAPTER 15

-with both tana and vanessa promoted im sure 4 turns is a distinct possability.

OLD/NEW 5/71-4/61

CHAPTER 16

will artur not suck at warping? i'm debating giving him the energy rings, and have saleh just have 100% magic growth since Saleh won't have warp in time for this chapter, then have Saleh have the magic 26 magic needed for warping in chapter 20 and endgame. with three energy rings, im sure Artur will have the required 24 magic needed to 1 turn this chapter. Moulder will also need to have enough magic to boost eirika far enough, but with torch and barrier spam, im sure he'll make it easily.

OLD/NEW 2/73-1/62 TURNS

CHAPTER 17

lol

OLD/NEW 1/74-1/63 TURNS

CHAPTER 18

with better warp useage 4 turns is possible

OLD/NEW 5/79-4/67

CHAPTER 19

lol

OLD/NEW 1/80-1/68

CHAPTER 20

will saleh have 26 magic? Probably.

OLD/NEW 1/81-1/69

ENDGAME

fuck Lyon if i can kill him im rigging crits

OLD/NEW 3/84-2/71

characters you'll need to use are seth/franz/vanessa/artur/kyle/forde/tana/saleh/gerik/tethys + filler more or less, I don't think you'll be about to get as good of a tc without using the above units.

Edited September 19, 2014 by General Horace

[momogeek2141]

Great, thanks.

[momogeek2141]

Now I came across another dilemma. It's probably obvious that characters don't get a lot of EXP. So the next question is: what level should I early-promote them? Level 10? Level 12? I want to balance good stats and turns. If level 10, should I instapromote Gerik?

Edited October 14, 2014 by momogeek2141