Characters who needed Buffs, or Nerfs.

[Tide of Waves]

Buffs: Ike: If Bowser, and Ganondorf got the Speed Boost Treatment, why not Ike? And maybe, he might need his projectiles, ranged attack, and Ranged Ragnell with +5 Def, in his game? and also Improve on his recovery, and etc.

Marth/Lucina: for Marth, I wish they didn't Nerfed him, too seriously, and have greater land lagging, chain grab/throws, or sword being shorter, or ranged ones. I think? For Lucina, I think she's fine where she, is now. ^___^;;

Zelda: I'm guessing they didn't do improvement that much, since in brawl? o:

Palutena: not having slower moves, lags or such...? Idek.. Really?

Not sure if both Robin, need one tho.? :/

Nerfs: Diddy Kong

Not, sure about Wario?

ZSS: she doesn't need to be, ridiscously OP, and not sure about Samus tho..?

Duck Hunt

Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario?

What do you think? o:

((Just my own Opinion))

Edited October 18, 2014 by Tide of Waves

[Djing]

Rosalina is the closest to OP this game is going to get.

Ike definitely needs a buff. He doesn't seem as strong as other heavyweights.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, instead of being buffed like the other slow heavyweights were, Ike got nerfed. WHY? He did get some buffs too, but they didn't help him enough. I also question why Ike couldn't get the same speed treatment that Bowser and Ganondorf got.

Luigi needed buffs, which he did get as far as I've seen. He wound up LOW tier on the latest Brawl list.

ZSS, Meta Knight, and Diddy, imo needed nerfs. The latter two got them, but ZSS was buffed. WTF. She was already 9th out of over 30 characters.

[fengaridotdll]

Lucina is slightly on the weaker side (Though it could be to her not being a tipper like Marth and not centered like Roy was). And Robin is also fairly mediocre.

Little Mac needs a nerf. Badly. WHY DID SAKURAI THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GIVE HIM AN OHKO!?!?!?!? (Though he could be countered somewhat easily due to like everyone having counter, and by trying to keep him in the air as much as humanly possible, like jumping from platform to platform on Battlefield)

[kingddd]

Little Mac needs a nerf. Badly. WHY DID SAKURAI THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GIVE HIM AN OHKO!?!?!?!? (Though he could be countered somewhat easily due to like everyone having counter, and by trying to keep him in the air as much as humanly possible, like jumping from platform to platform on Battlefield)

I personally think he doesn't need one. The issue is that most people are judging him from playing in flat stages and a bit of battlefield. However, he does not perform well in stages with lots of platforms and movements. So the stages counter balance his abilities quite significantly.

[fengaridotdll]

I personally think he doesn't need one. The issue is that most people are judging him from playing in flat stages and a bit of battlefield. However, he does not perform well in stages with lots of platforms and movements. So the stages counter balance his abilities quite significantly.

Kids, that's why you don't use FD as a primary stage in tournaments

[Tide of Waves]

Yeah, instead of being buffed like the other slow heavyweights were, Ike got nerfed. WHY? He did get some buffs too, but they didn't help him enough. I also question why Ike couldn't get the same speed treatment that Bowser and Ganondorf got.

Luigi needed buffs, which he did get as far as I've seen. He wound up LOW tier on the latest Brawl list.

ZSS, Meta Knight, and Diddy, imo needed nerfs. The latter two got them, but ZSS was buffed. WTF. She was already 9th out of over 30 characters.

ZSS is actually outclassed by Greninja, or Lucario.!

But, yes I agree with you, on ZSS, and Diddy Kong

Edited October 18, 2014 by Tide of Waves

[Carter]

I definitely think Zelda should have gotten buffed.

She was 37 out of 38 on the Brawl Tier list, yet they nerfed some of her attacks. Her up-tilt doesn't have KO power anymore! Range of Din's Fire was reduced by half! Phantom Slash is great for edge-guarding though. I'm glad that is doesn't cause helplessness in the air.

I still have no idea why Din's Fire causes helplessness... Ooh I wish I could program Zelda myself xD!

ZSS, Meta Knight, and Diddy, imo needed nerfs. The latter two got them, but ZSS was buffed. WTF. She was already 9th out of over 30 characters.

ZSS did get nerfs, but her buffs "override" them, as they are more significant changes to her moveset.

But she isn't even shaping up to be the "strongest" character or newest "Meta Knight" (that would be Rosalina?). When tournaments come, ZSS might place lower on the tier list than we currently think. I do agree with you that she's semi-overpowered, but please do look that she did indeed get nerfs from her Brawl version!

[Tide of Waves]

Lucina is slightly on the weaker side (Though it could be to her not being a tipper like Marth and not centered like Roy was). And Robin is also fairly mediocre.

Little Mac needs a nerf. Badly. WHY DID SAKURAI THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GIVE HIM AN OHKO!?!?!?!? (Though he could be countered somewhat easily due to like everyone having counter, and by trying to keep him in the air as much as humanly possible, like jumping from platform to platform on Battlefield)

True, for Little Mac. But projectiiles, speed and ranged attack are your bff.

[Anacybele]

But she isn't even shaping up to be the "strongest" character or newest "Meta Knight" (that would be Rosalina?). When tournaments come, ZSS might place lower on the tier list than we currently think. I do agree with you that she's semi-overpowered, but please do look that she did indeed get nerfs from her Brawl version!

Strange, I've had little trouble against Rosalina. She's slowish, a huge target, and you can knock out her Luma easily. Not to mention she isn't easy to use.

ZSS has given more more trouble than anyone else, and that's why I say she's the new Meta Knight. She's really fast, has ridiculous range, and has good KO power. When I used her just a couple times for All-Star or Classic, I wrecked both modes more easily than I did with anyone else, even my mains. And that was just the FIRST time I ever used her. Not to mention she has an infinite against Robin.

Granted, I also wrecked All-Star with Ganondorf, but I had a lot more trouble using him in Classic. He'd been buffed too though, I hear.

[Comet]

True, for Little Mac. But projectiiles, speed and ranged attack are your bff.

what are you talking about? in smash 4, the only "range" you speak of comes with characters extending their hurtboxes, giving them about 0 range.

actually, shulk exists but it's pretty much exclusive to him.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Cornet

[Mighty Kamina]

If I were to nerf characters, I'd do a 2 things. Make Rosalina's Luma harder to kill, but not respawn until she does, and reduce the strength and range of Duck Hunt Dog's projectiles and smash attacks.

If I were to buff characters: Make Megaman's neutral game better by giving a few of his attacks more range, speed, and making some more of his moves kill moves. I'd get rid of Ike's Eruption and replace it with a shock wave attack. I'd make Marth's sword longer than it was in Brawl, with a larger tipper hitbox. I'd the first hit's of Shulk's F-Smash and U-Smash not have any knockback at all (so that they can't be VI'd out of), and make his F-Smash, U-Smash, and B-Air come out just slightly faster. I'd buff Falcon's knee of justice to be like it was in Melee. Make Zelda's Side-B not put her into a helpless state. Lastly, I'd speed up some of Ganondorf's attacks,

Edited October 18, 2014 by Shulk

[Anacybele]

Ike getting his shockwave won't ever happen, unfortunately (besides Aether Wave). Sakurai thinks it's too overpowered. That's why he never got it in Brawl. >_>

Edited October 18, 2014 by Anacybele

[Mighty Kamina]

Ike getting his shockwave won't ever happen, unfortunately (besides Aether Wave). Sakurai thinks it's too overpowered. That's why he never got it in Brawl. >_>

Has he stated that? He could easily make it work by making it do only like 7%-8% (and have it come out decently fast), as say for example Duck Hunt Dog's projectiles do more damage than that.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Shulk

[Knife]

Rosalina is not that broken, she's the 4th lightest character in the game and is freaking tall meaning Luma doesn't cover her completely. Just don't play retarded and go after Rosalina herself with melee attacks (don't bother with Luma cause it respawns fairly quickly). Don't use projectiles unless there is no Luma.

EDIT: When I play Shulk, I go for jump mode and jump right in front of her when I expect a Luma Launch, and then counter (gets the almost OHKO).

Edited October 18, 2014 by Knife

[Jiac]

Buffs:

Dammit Sakurai, you haven't given Falco the ability to fly.

Marth, it's like he's holding a steak knife, needs longer sword asap.

Little Mac, ok you're saying "he's already op" but there is one thing he really needs, a longer grab range. As a Mac player, Little Mac is so gimpable it's hilarious. His air game is terrible enough, but his ground game is suppose to be strong. So why not give him a decent grab range? You're better off Dash attacking than grabbing.

Toon Link, he has the range of some scissors, yes he has projectiles, but he is almost useless close-mid range. The only close-mid range thing going for him is his grab and maybe his bombs.

Wario, I feel bad for Wario players, they shouldn't have to go through this problem...Wario's grab release, it essentially means the person who grabs you have a guaranteed follow up if you don't get pummeled. This is a good video example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szd9f7i1Qo8

Nerfs:

Bowser, his strength and range are far too strong. He can kill at 50% with a Forward Smash and the fact he's somewhat fast makes him too much. His Up Special also lasts too long.

Zero Suit Samus, where do I even start? She can instantly space you with her paralyzer. She can forward smash you into oblivion, her range is incredible. Attacking her aerially? Up Smash shall hurt. Need a kill? Grab, Up Throw, Up Special GG. Her down special is even more annoying with grounding properties also a third jump for her. Paralyzer needs less range and whip needs less range and I'll be fine.

Duck Hunt Dog, that range, he is such a zoner. Frisbee needs less range as well as his Smashes. Duck Hunt Dog's Down Smash can't have a double hit property, just no. Exploding Can is alright since you can hit it away.

Rosalina, no it's not Luma that's the problem. It's the range of her attacks. She already has Luma, so why should she have a lot of range? The range of some of her attacks should be nerfed other than that, Luma is ok.

Shulk, he needs some sort of range nerf tbh. I've used Shulk a few times and I find his range a bit much. It's like as long as freaking Ike's without the weight or lag. So I propose when using an art he should also have a range deficit.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Vermilia Scarlet

[Anacybele]

Has he stated that? He could easily make it work by making it do only like 7%-8% (and have it come out decently fast), as say for example Duck Hunt Dog's projectiles do more damage than that.

Exactly! That's how I would've made the attack. But yeah, Sakurai said it's too overpowered a long time ago.

[NinjaMonkey]

DK needs a buff. With the exception of now being able to roll, he's exactly the same as he was in Melee.

Also, a Final Smash that doesn't involve bongos.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Strange, I've had little trouble against Rosalina. She's slowish, a huge target, and you can knock out her Luma easily. Not to mention she isn't easy to use.

A good Rosalina is hard to beat. Like, really hard to beat. Luma can be all over the goddamn stage and if you know how to Puppet, things will end badly for the opponent. While Luma is easy to ruin, a skilled Rosalina is going to use the hit-and-run tactic with the Luma. Especially in With Friends battles with Customs allowed. (Luma Warp. Omg.) Send Luma out, have it chill on one side, Rosie moves elsewhere and sit back and laugh. Rosalina may have a learning curve, and shes pretty lightweight, but shes really great. Her aerial attacks are actually really powerful. (not as good as Robin's aerial Smash attacks but yeah.) Rosie is bamf, but i dont think she needs a nerf either.

Little Mac needs a nerf. Badly.

lel.

Why do people think Mac is OP? Remove the ground from Little Mac's proximity and watch as he just fails at life.

I also do not get why people think ZSS is OP. Shes Spamus Aran, sure, but not like unbeatable OP cray cray. Diddy is OP?

I dont think anyone needs a nerf. Zelda could use a buff and i was expecting one what with her being separate from Sheik. D: Ganny needs a speed buff and his up-tilt needs to not be what it is.

Shulk, he needs some sort of range nerf tbh.

no wai. Shulk's moves are already rather slow. While his range is huge, Monado modes modify junk oddly. Like Speed making him deal less damage, etc.

[Comet]

oh jiac mentioned falco. wow, he SUCKS now, enough to make me almost feel bad about complaining about lucario's nerfs.

[NinjaMonkey]

Ike definitely needs a buff. He doesn't seem as strong as other heavyweights.

I take it by "other heavyweights" you mean Bowser and Ganondorf, because DK is nowhere near as powerful as Ike is (and I should know)...

Just don't play retarded and go after Rosalina herself with melee attacks (don't bother with Luma cause it respawns fairly quickly).

So as someone who mostly plays as the melee-only Donkey Kong, what exactly am I supposed to do against Rosalina? Stand still and just let her KO me?

[Anacybele]

Bowser, Ganondorf, and Dedede ALL feel like they have more power than Ike if you ask me. I should know, I recently used those three in All-Star.

The main reason I think it's dumb for Ike's power to have been weakened ANYWHERE in this game is that it doesn't actually make sense given his new design. xP With those muscles, he should be able to dish out more damage!

Edited October 18, 2014 by Anacybele

[Knife]

I take it by "other heavyweights" you mean Bowser and Ganondorf, because DK is nowhere near as powerful as Ike is (and I should know)...

So as someone who mostly plays as the melee-only Donkey Kong, what exactly am I supposed to do against Rosalina? Stand still and just let her KO me?

If your using Donkey Kong you might as well.

Well seriously, a super armored Giant Punch foils Luma Launch pretty well. Your other options are are super armor Up Special and roll dash attack.

[Djing]

Many people consider DK to be the worst character in the game. Any reasoning as to why?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Many people consider DK to be the worst character in the game. Any reasoning as to why?

Im not really sure tbh. I got the impression he was a bit lighter weight. Or the physics of the game have changed but DK himself, has not. I dunno.