[UPDATE 10/27/2014] Thracia 776 XNA Remake: looking for a staff for preliminary/planning phase.

[Psych]

I'm fine with dismounting, but I do wish you had more indoor lance users. Also, considering you can change this, making weapon ranks go up faster makes it so unmounted units are screwed over by D Swords all the time.

Maybe have unmounted units keep their mounted weapons but still receive a movement and stat penalty? I'm pretty sure Dalsin and Xavier are the only lance users indoors otherwise.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Psych

[Kysafen]

Look much better now! FE5 is my personal favorite. However, a few things I would like to say,

1. does't seem like there are enough weapon/spells/items.

2. skills are really play important part now.

3. I hope you don't want to add the "tiredness" thing into FE5r, nor the "re-move stars", nor the mounted/unmounted thing. Mounted/unmounted is clearly bias agains weapons other than sword. Damn why the hell there's only one person in my entire team can use lance/axe in final chapter?!!!

4. Any class changes of actor?

5. Any weapon level change of class? Troubadour is generally considered to be an non-combat class now.

I really think this FE5 in 2010s will be amazing.

1. I'm willing to have the exact same amount of weapons and spells. If you want a list of all the items/weapons/spells/staves, look at FE5's page on the main site, because that's what we're going for. All I listed in the "Assets" are assets that we'll have to either generate from scratch, or take from a pre-existing source. A lot of them may come from FEXNA, should BwdYeti include his/her animations in the program.

2. You're saying we should put in skills because they play an important part? Neato, because we're doing those, too. I just haven't added in the section that goes into programming assets we'll need, as of the time of this post.

3. Too bad, so sad, because fatigue's here and it's here to stay. Blame the game for being well-designed in its unit balance. What we might think of for a feature is an "easy" mode where being overfatigued will only halve your units' stats, but still make them deployable. Not sure.

4. Class changes of the characters? Are you talking about potentially changing the classes of the characters? I'm banking on "no." I plan to make every character exactly the same class he/she was in the original, right down to unit and character growth rates Animation-wise, I may possibly make compromises if some battle animations aren't done. For example, I might have Dalshin, an Axe Armor, use BwdYeti's Phalanx animation, assuming he/she would let me use it in FEXNA. Thracia 776 has different classes and some will need entirely new animations, but the under-the-hood mechanics of the original should stay the same, when it comes to character growths, except maybe Ronan, I mean for fuck's sake what is WITH that strength growth.

5. Weapon level change of class? We'll have to change the promotion trees to make it identical to 776's tree; Troubadours will still have swords and promote to Female Paladins, Brigands promote to Warriors, Fighters promote to Heroes, and all Armor Knights promote to Generals who have competency in all physical weapons. This fact makes it essential that we have all the battle animation packages to make it possible to preserve every FE5 class, and thereby, preserve FE5's gameplay.

Which makes me baffled as to why Klok thought FE5 would be easier to remake than FE1, because it fucking isn't.

I'm fine with dismounting, but I do wish you had more indoor lance users. Also, considering you can change this, making weapon ranks go up faster makes it so unmounted units are screwed over by D Swords all the time.

Preserving weapon proficiency when dismounted may be one change I might be willing to compromise on, but for that to work at all, two things are required:

1. We would need to make an "indoor" map tile designation, so that no mounted user may proceed indoors (or if they did, they would proceed only on foot with whatever move they'd have left, 5 movement maximum) to make dismounting a thing at ALL, and
2. To preserve balance, I may have to introduce an "Infantry" skill for all non-cavalry units that would give a statistic boost when indoors, (Indoor Fighter? It just might be), or conversely, a skill that debuffs cavalry when dismounted (hell, let's just call it "Dismount: Cavalry is mightiest upon the mount.")

[Klokinator]

Here's all the classes I'm planning to include in fexna on release or via a separate download.

http://puu.sh/ctxUW/9adff3a06a.txt

You'll notice that 99% of these are basically the same classes fe5 already had, because I planned to add classes for every possible game where possible.

Let's not forget we have armor knight map sprites and battle animations for all weapon types available already, btw.

Edit: Oh right, I've already got 99% of the map sprites formatted already.

http://puu.sh/ctyc1/ae3b1ffb94.7z

Edited October 28, 2014 by Klokinator

[Kysafen]

Derp, double-posted

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kysafen

[Kysafen]

Here's all the classes I'm planning to include in fexna on release or via a separate download.

http://puu.sh/ctxUW/9adff3a06a.txt

You'll notice that 99% of these are basically the same classes fe5 already had, because I planned to add classes for every possible game where possible.

Let's not forget we have armor knight map sprites and battle animations for all weapon types available already, btw.

Edit: Oh right, I've already got 99% of the map sprites formatted already.

http://puu.sh/ctyc1/ae3b1ffb94.7z

1. Is the 1% dismounted units, or are dismounted units not going to be a thing? If we're not keeping dismounted units, we'll have to take measures to balance out mounted units indoors. That'd probably involve including Horseslayers/Poleaxes/Zanbato into indoor enemy units' inventories, and indoor debuffs for Cavalry.
2. If that's true on the Armor Knight battle animations, then fucking A, this'll make enemy units/Dalshin that much less of a worry. I guess I'll cross that off the list.
3. We still haven't settled whether this thing's getting stat caps of 20 or 40. My arguments still stand, even if they were written at 2:15ish and I was sleep deprived
4. We'll still need a Leaf Lord/Prince Map/Battle animation, in addition to EVERY dismounted unit, unless dismounted units aren't going to be a thing.
5. For lack of being active on these forums, I'll just ask anyone in particular: which features in FEXNA have been/are planning to be implemented?

• Multi-unit trading on one turn
• CON Growths
• Capturing (Pretty sure this is already implemented)
• FE5-style Weapon/Item Stealing for thieves with higher CON/Speed ([iF [unit]CON > [weapon weight] AND [unit]CON > [Opposing Unit Speed] THEN Steal=1, ELSE Steal=0] see this is why I never became a programmer), in addition to weapon-based exceptions (such as Loptyr Blade)
• Fatigue

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kysafen

[Klokinator]

Most of the systems you're so worried about are 10 minutes of coding at worst. Capturing, fatigue, and movement stars are the only systems that will take a while to add to FEXNA because they're a bit involved. CON growth is nothing. Multi-unit trading is a bool you flip to trueor false, and if it isn't added already I'm 90% sure it's trivial to add.

Also my personal desire is first an exact recreation of FE5, and once that's complete, then you can wok on the improved version. So, 20 stat caps first then whatever else in V2.

[linke0000000]

Edit: Oh right, I've already got 99% of the map sprites formatted already.

http://puu.sh/ctyc1/ae3b1ffb94.7z

This is GREAT.

How can you guys not want to include demons in the FE5r?! Seems that demons are already included in FEXNA

Edited October 28, 2014 by linke0000000

[Kysafen]

Most of the systems you're so worried about are 10 minutes of coding at worst. Capturing, fatigue, and movement stars are the only systems that will take a while to add to FEXNA because they're a bit involved. CON growth is nothing. Multi-unit trading is a bool you flip to trueor false, and if it isn't added already I'm 90% sure it's trivial to add.

Also my personal desire is first an exact recreation of FE5, and once that's complete, then you can wok on the improved version. So, 20 stat caps first then whatever else in V2.

Let me make this clear: this isn't worry, it's organization. I've never done a project like this before, and I have a huge, HUGE fear of fucking up. Sorry if I come off as abrasive.

Also, you're saying it's EASY to add multi-unit trading, and you're not saying it's a trivial feature in and of itself, right? Because I can't tell you how economical and efficient it is to capture a unit and then not only use another unit to take the captured unit, trade out the items, and trade them into the captor's inventory, sometimes at the top of the inventory to save Brave weapon usage. Hell, I might even ask for a feature that automatically dumps the captured unit's inventory into the captor's like the enemy captors did in the original version, that'd be the best version of that.

Also also, and this is an inconsequential point, I got nothing against FE5 Chaos Mode, I'd play it.

This is GREAT.

How can you guys not want to include demons in the FE5r?! Seems that demons are already included in FEXNA

Because it would be

1. Completely contrary to the Jugdral's already-established setting
2. It'd make for an unfaithful remake in terms of actual gameplay

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kysafen

[linke0000000]

That's just kidding don't be serious.

You are the boss of your own hack

[Psych]

Preserving weapon proficiency when dismounted may be one change I might be willing to compromise on, but for that to work at all, two things are required:

1. We would need to make an "indoor" map tile designation, so that no mounted user may proceed indoors (or if they did, they would proceed only on foot with whatever move they'd have left, 5 movement maximum) to make dismounting a thing at ALL, and
2. To preserve balance, I may have to introduce an "Infantry" skill for all non-cavalry units that would give a statistic boost when indoors, (Indoor Fighter? It just might be), or conversely, a skill that debuffs cavalry when dismounted (hell, let's just call it "Dismount: Cavalry is mightiest upon the mount.")

Giving mounts a mounted skill is probably easier. And the tileset thing doesn't sound too hard to figure out.

[Klokinator]

Tilesets are super easy to edit. Yeti even has an integrated (incomplete currently but it's wip) tileset editor. Skills are easier though, because you can copy and edit the skill for nomads that edits their movement on tiles.

[Yumi_Fujibayashi]

wait, how will escape chapters be handled?

[Klokinator]

Yeah escape chapters might be a bit more involved, but tbh you can probably rig some events to make those work. Worst case scenario you need some code but it should be pretty easy.

[Psych]

You could probably just rename Eclipse to Fenrir to keep it. All the dark tomes are supposed to be named after Loki's children.

While I do think you should try to stick to being true to the original game, some things probably deserve to be updated to more modern standards, like maybe weapon weights or NOT ALLOWING STAVES TO MISS

[Klokinator]

You could probably just rename Eclipse to Fenrir to keep it. All the dark tomes are supposed to be named after Loki's children.

While I do think you should try to stick to being true to the original game, some things probably deserve to be updated to more modern standards, like maybe weapon weights or NOT ALLOWING STAVES TO MISS

How about no.

[linke0000000]

or NOT ALLOWING STAVES TO MISS

what can be better than earning experience & stave experience without consuming stave

Edited October 28, 2014 by linke0000000

[Kysafen]

Yeah escape chapters might be a bit more involved, but tbh you can probably rig some events to make those work. Worst case scenario you need some code but it should be pretty easy.

If ever there was an Easy Mode, would you consider adding 15-20 fatigue for units instead of being captured?

what can be better than earning experience & stave experience without consuming stave

How about actually Silencing that one Druid that was going to Berserk Othin, or that Sage boss that'd use Blizzard on Dalshin but now he'd be asleep and ripe for slaughter from the guards surrounding the castle.

Seriously, you really do need to play FE5 to completion if you want to get how important it is for staves to not miss. Making resistance-based dodge for staves practically made sleep/berserk/silence staves worthless in FE7's final chapter, but they mean everything in FE5's chapter 24/5.

Always-hit staves are a two-way street; they make going up against enemy staff users a total bitch, but they also make deploying your own staff users a necessity. They're far more important in this game as a result. When I beat FE5, for the first time, I didn't find staff users 75% completely useless until they promoted. Saphy's Hammerne staff? Tina's Thief staff? Rewarp-frogging tactics? All of those things would NEVER be a thing in any other Fire Emblem game.

Again, play FE5 to completion.

Having that said, Klok, are we going to allow adjacent healing staves, like Heal, Mend, and Recover be allowed to miss?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kysafen

[Klokinator]

There should still be a 5% guaranteed miss/hit differential in all instances. An easy/hard mode variant (We'll call the exact recreation mode "Normal" mode) are the modes where you can make actual improvements to gameplay, such as making staves not miss in easy mode, halving fatigue or eliminating it completely, etc. Making substantial changes in easy/hard mode compared to normal is a good step.

[linke0000000]

Seriously, you really do need to play FE5 to completion if you want to get how important it is for staves to not miss.

First, No offence, and I really like your idea about remake FE5

Second, it seems that you have absolutely NO idea about how important a stave miss can be, especially when you try to minimized the turn and have your stave user gain some decent experience but do not want to waste staves.

Third, i recommend you try to play FE5 to completion with a different strategy, to find some fun other than simply silencing/sleeping/ enemies with a 100% hit rate stave, or silenced/slept by enemies with those 100% hit rate staves.

[CT075]

i'm pretty sure most of the high profile AAA rank thracia runs (including the 0% growth run) rely entirely on rigging repair misses in c3

Edited October 28, 2014 by CT075

[Kysafen]

First, No offence, and I really like your idea about remake FE5

Second, it seems that you have absolutely NO idea about how important a stave miss can be, especially when you try to minimized the turn and have your stave user gain some decent experience but do not want to waste staves.

Third, i recommend you try to play FE5 to completion with a different strategy, to find some fun other than simply silencing/sleeping/ enemies with a 100% hit rate stave, or silenced/slept by enemies with those 100% hit rate staves.

Well, if you recommend not trying to use staves to my advantage, I'm sure the enemy bishops will notice that I'm not, and then, despite their years of brainwashing to eradicate all the enemies of Loptyr, will decide not to use THEIR staves, in the interest of a fair challenge.

*proceeds to do so to have Galzus Berserked by Elf and kill Leif on the first turn*

Whoops! Looks like that turned out not too swimmingly!

[Baldrick]

I think making staffs unable to miss, but finite (FEGBA?) range would be a fair compromise. Makes them less screwy at the start and less gamebreaking at the end. Also I have strong ideas about how fatigue should have been implemented but I'm sure you don't want to hear them.

[Kysafen]

Also I have strong ideas about how fatigue should have been implemented but I'm sure you don't want to hear them.

Try me. We want to go for a truly faithful recreation of the game for starters, but as far as additional modes (Easy, Chaos, etc) go, there could be something worth consideration.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Kysafen

[Psych]

I think you could probably have a faithful recration be one mode, but then actually rejuvinate the game and bring it up to modern standards with additions and things the way Arch is doing for his FE1 hack as another game mode.

[Kysafen]

If you could, do define these "additions and things."

Supports and Base conversations, if not already confirmed at this point, are a certain consideration. Class-based post-20 stat caps and splitting Magic and Resistance will probably be implemented by Klok in hard/easy/chaos mode.

I may streamline the recruitment process for some units; if Shiva's released after being captured in Chapter 2X, he'll still return. The children in chapter 3 may be dropped off in any house (or just make it all one house), Tina will just become an Other unit and not steal all your items if Pirn/Pahn is recruited, Lara's dance promotion dialogue will be a Base conversation, should Pirn be recruited by Lifis/Salem, Trewd will become an Other unit whose A.I. will proceed to go to Pirn, but not attack him should Salem talk to him, and Tina will be recruited should Saphy not talk to her during the chapter. If Pirn is recruited before anything happens to Trewd, he'll automatically become recruited, and whoever is willing to do all of these in-chapter events will be fucking bleeding by the end of 12x's event scripting, Misha will simply just not attack any units in chapter 17A if Karin speaks to her, the castle in chapter 16B will actually have a "visit" prompt to recruit Miranda, though it'll only be if Leaf visits. And most recruitable units will be getting a hint as to how to recruit them *coughxaviercough*

(If Magic and resistance are going to be two stats, they're getting the same growth rates as they would be in the game)