TOUHOU ~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Scarlet]

There are like, twelve midboss enemies, two for each area. Marisa Darkonium is one of the midboss enemies of the first area. You can't really deal with the midbosses in the way you deal with generics. You'll want to optimize your party to take them down, just like regular bosses. In fact, some of these midboss enemies are much tougher than regular bosses >_<

Yeah, I noticed.

Also, if you haven't been forging character-specific equipment, now would be a good time. This is the final pre-Expansion stage.

I don't have the necessary items for the final tier of items lol. I have precisely one piece of Orichalcum and hardly any of the character-specific super materials.

That said, I take it it's not possible to win against the final boss with most of your characters in the low 50s? Like, wow.

[Komeiji Koishi]

Seven reviews ugh. I'm not cut out for this x-x

[Scarlet]

You wanted to take responsibility for the draft, now take responsibility for it. :V

Don't falter, stay strong~

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Stand Pround, Kalas!

[Komeiji Koishi]

Ugh, I know I know...

[Zak Something]

You can doooo iiiit.

[Komeiji Koishi]

I think after this I'm going to not watch other people's replays... >_>

[Wen Yang]

*preps shotgun*

You WILL take responsibility. :D

[Komeiji Koishi]

Fucking sigh man. I'm already doing it.

[Balcerzak]

1) Awww, I liked being able to spam bombs like crazy... it's why I even attempted to 1LC MoF! Even if you fail hard at Touhou, you can literally bomb to everything that's troublesome and still be able to 1cc

2) This has always really annoyed me, though more for SA and UFO than for MoF.

3) ZM will not be pleased I agree that the MoF characters are somewhat boring, relative to Touhou standards. Not sure about spellcards, I kinda really liked some of them. The Day The Sea Split~

4) imo MoF has the WORST scoring system from all of the Touhou games. Even worse than SA.

5) Well, at least you get five bombs from a single full power life... and you can increase that by collecting Power along the way...

Best thing about MoF though, imo, is the music. It doesn't have the best overall soundtrack imo, but it's still great. Faith is for the transient people is also my #1 favorite Touhou boss theme.

1) For stages, sure it's fun and games. For Boss's though, having to face spellcards at less than max power is just agonizing. Having to panic bomb early fucks you so hardcore in any other spell or nonspell you were slightly shaky on, because it takes so much longer to kill them. It's literally the opposite of fun for me.

2) I forgot SA and UFO had the shitty continue system, but at least they had fun gimmicks that were redeeming features.

3) Okay, don't get me wrong, there are a few gems, but on the whole...

imo IN takes that spot. MoF at least is pretty fun if you're not overly concerned about scoring.

While a separate bomb counter has its merit, I kinda liked this mechanic, personally. It makes lives less like an extension of the bomb counter and more like its own separate thing, as there's no longer a strictly finite amount of bombs per life.

I still prefer it to EoSD's, PCB's and IN's, where choosing to continue will not even let you enter the score you had when you died, but yeah, the way it's handled past UFO is more reasonable.

I'm under the impression that ZUN simply didn't give two shits about EASY MODO and Normal Mode players back then. After all, on Lunatic, the Cherry loss for bombing is quite a lot more reasonable and usually lower than what you'd lose by dying, and on Hard it tends to be roughly even. It'd have been so easy to fix PCB's scoring system for all difficulties by either cutting the base Cherry loss for bombing in half or simply adding a cap like he did for dying. Yet he didn't, so...

...heck, back then, he even punished you score-wise for trying to see your hitbox lol. All those mechanics that only increase your scoring potential when unfocused (Cherry in PCB, time points in IN outside of boss battles) are kinda sad.

Wut. IN is actually one of the more enjoyable games do to its immense depth. 12 different shot types, 2 different routes, endless spellcard practice. Not to mention the fact that there exists a system to reward you for taking a more challenging path by staying unfocused (I am in pretty much complete disagreement with you there, apparently). Focus isn't even really about seeing your hitbox, it's for the speed reduction. Unless you're micrododging you shouldn't be paying close enough attention to your character to really notice the hitbox anyway, because it's more beneficial to see the bullets farther upstream to know where you need to be in the future (or at least, I'm more and more of this opinion, but sadly my mechanical skills are so poor I cannot back this up with results).

MOF is literally boring, because it's Faith mechanic and endless bombs are the only thing that sets it apart (no borders, no time limits, no communication gauge, no fancy collectibles, trance, etc.) It's a step all the way back to ESOD in terms of entertaining gimmicks, and that's a huge bad thing. The Faith mechanic is also pants on head retarded for punishing people for using the point of collection, practically cutting off the upper section of screen from any use during the instances when you need to ration out the collects. It's absolutely disgusting.

The shot types also just seem more boring to me without like, the whole partner aspect of it's predecessor and successor, but maybe I'm just trying to look for faults at this point. Honestly, I just... gaaaah.

[Scarlet]

For Boss's though, having to face spellcards at less than max power is just agonizing.

With the exception of Kanako's final spellcard, it's really not that bad in MoF as long as you don't go all way down to 0 Power (and that's more because without any options at all, your shots become really damn narrow). It's a lot worse in SA, where every boss has a shit-ton of HP.

Wut. IN is actually one of the more enjoyable games do to its immense depth.

Overcomplexity can be a bad thing. I'm playing Bullet Hell SHMUPs mainly to have fun and dodge bullets, and gimmicks that intrude too much on the gameplay can be a bad thing in that regard.

I dislike UFO for the same reason, as you just cannot ignore the damn UFO gimmick even if you don't care about score, and it requires a lot of attention.

12 different shot types

It's really just 4. The eight solo characters are really just half a shot type in this game, even considering the fact that some of them can do things that they can't do as a team (for instance, locking the aim of Youmu's familiar in place when using focus).

Not to mention the fact that there exists a system to reward you for taking a more challenging path by staying unfocused (I am in pretty much complete disagreement with you there, apparently).

Having to rely on very inaccurate controls when slowing down would be the sane thing to do is fake difficulty, if anything.

Focus isn't even really about seeing your hitbox, it's for the speed reduction. Unless you're micrododging you shouldn't be paying close enough attention to your character to really notice the hitbox anyway, because it's more beneficial to see the bullets farther upstream to know where you need to be in the future (or at least, I'm more and more of this opinion, but sadly my mechanical skills are so poor I cannot back this up with results).

While I agree that you shouldn't be looking directly at your hitbox most of the time, having it in your view at all is still a big help.

MOF is literally boring, because it's Faith mechanic and endless bombs are the only thing that sets it apart (no borders, no time limits, no communication gauge, no fancy collectibles, trance, etc.) It's a step all the way back to ESOD in terms of entertaining gimmicks, and that's a huge bad thing.

For you, maybe. That's entirely a matter of opinion.

Personally, while MoF is far from being my favorite game in the series, I appreciate it for being fairly simple and straightforward, allowing me to focus on the game itself rather than gimmicks. I appreciate EoSD for the same reason.

Also, bombs paid from Power is an interesting concept, even though I'm glad that not all the games have it.

The Faith mechanic is also pants on head retarded for punishing people for using the point of collection, practically cutting off the upper section of screen from any use during the instances when you need to ration out the collects. It's absolutely disgusting.

Outside of specific situations like the beginning or end of a stage, it actually punishes you less for using the PoC and more for having no enemies on-screen (a.k.a. defeating them quickly). But yeah, it's retarded, I'll agree with that any day of the week. However, at least it doesn't really punish you for bombing; PCB's is arguably even worse, all things considered.

The shot types also just seem more boring to me without like, the whole partner aspect of it's predecessor and successor, but maybe I'm just trying to look for faults at this point. Honestly, I just... gaaaah.

No. Honestly, no. They may not have unique bombs, yes, but the shot types in themselves are very diverse and interesting in this game; possibly the most interesting (and balanced!) selection of shot types in the entire series. Marisa's in particular succeed in being gimmicky to use, yet still fun and effective.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Scarlet

[Wen Yang]

I utterly loathe the Faith system, more than I loathe the penalties in PCB for bombing.

At least PCB doesn't punish me for adhering to my instinct to abuse to PoC >_<

[Komeiji Koishi]

I got the reviews in.

Am I cool now.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

I'll have to review your reviews before I review you

[Komeiji Koishi]

ugh no more reviews please.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

IN, tho :>

[Wen Yang]

Then MoF~

and SA, UFO, TD, and DDC~ :D

[Fera]

Most of your earlier Stage 21 runs will be all about exploiting weaknesses. Fire, Light, Earth mostly. Another thing to be acutely aware of is that the Enervation skill absolutely WILL hurt the damage output of anything it touches all the way to the end of postgame.

Every enemy in 21 has a chance to drop character ultimate forge materials. Mid 60s is the ideal level range to fight the bosses anyway so you'll likely be able to get some good equips while you're grinding. There's a great area for grind with easily murdered stuff near a healing spot.

I'm not sure what you're doing to be unable to run from encounters, I pretty much survived my first few runs mapping out 21 from cowardice (Sonic Stream formation free priority turn helps out immensely)

Kill the frog if you see one, it gets you a random forge material, including the character ultimates

Amusingly the Flayers in 21 don't feel very threatening compared to all the way back in Chireiden. Weird. Angelbots are still a pile of fucking bother to fight on any level, Divine Barrier sucks ass.

If you haven't forged Kusanagi yet go forge it now, it has a metric shitton of free stats.

(p/s: if you didn't find the shortcut back to the temple entrance at the end of 20 go get it, Proto didn't)

Edited June 14, 2014 by Fera

[Kriemhild]

if you're running short on Orihalcon and Adamantite, I'm guessing you haven't done a very thorough job of exploring all the past stages. Most of them have chests that are partially concealed by the walls. If you aren't observant enough, you'll miss them unless you luckily bump into them and find it odd enough to check if there's a chest.

I wouldn't say it's necessary to grind for the final boss though, because leveling up has a very tiny effect on your stats, and an effective strategy will likely be independent of this stat difference. What makes leveling up important is what skills you have. At the very least, make sure Youmu has Paschal Moon-Reflecting Satellite Slash. You will likely already possess all of the other useful skills. With the proper equipment and skills, I do think the final boss can be beaten at early fifties. I would still encourage grinding if you're fine with that.

And for grinding, I would suggest equipping all of your Lucky and Yukkuri accessories, with the EXP++ formation if you have it. Use the end savespot and enter the area right before it (final area with enemies). If the enemy there isn't a Yukkuri King, reset (F12). If it is, then Paparazzi Square + FMR cheese it for massive EXP. As rare as Yukkuri King encounters are, the amount of EXP they drop will likely more than make up for the time it takes for you to encounter one.

[Scarlet]

I'm not sure what you're doing to be unable to run from encounters, I pretty much survived my first few runs mapping out 21 from cowardice (Sonic Stream formation free priority turn helps out immensely)

I feel like I'm missing a million formations that would be super great to have, even though it says I have 77.77%. D:

(p/s: if you didn't find the shortcut back to the temple entrance at the end of 20 go get it, Proto didn't)

He found all the Orichalcum/Adamantite chests, yet he missed the shortcut? Really? xD

if you're running short on Orihalcon and Adamantite, I'm guessing you haven't done a very thorough job of exploring all the past stages. Most of them have chests that are partially concealed by the walls. If you aren't observant enough, you'll miss them unless you luckily bump into them and find it odd enough to check if there's a chest.

I did map all of them out, but yeah, it didn't really occur to me that the game would place effectively invisible chests everywhere until I bumped into one completely by accident in Stage... 13 or 14, I believe. At that point I didn't really feel like going back and checking all the earlier stages for them, haha.

I wouldn't say it's necessary to grind for the final boss though, because leveling up has a very tiny effect on your stats, and an effective strategy will likely be independent of this stat difference.

I definitely need some DEX on my physical fighters, at the very least; like I said, they literally cannot hit anything in Stage 21, and that's with Headshot Goggles. Heck, they tend to miss even with Sanae's accuracy buff.

Also, at this point, Youmu needs more HP, because wow.

And for grinding, I would suggest equipping all of your Lucky and Yukkuri accessories, with the EXP++ formation if you have it.

Aside from the Lucky Paw, I have absolutely none of all that. x_x

Thanks for all the advice, you two!

[Fera]

Sonic Stream is the one where you get 11 entries out of Aya's Report skill

Yukkuri equips are drops from... Yukkuri, and increase a single unit's EXP gain far better than the Lucky equips.

Don't worry about the EXP++ formation that's postgame stop talking about postgame Proto you dum

[Scarlet]

Okay, gotcha.

By the way, how would I best go about getting Satori some support skills like that barrier thing or the Refresh spell? I'm pretty sure you can learn them, but the enemies won't use it on me even when under Charm / I can't select it when they're under Control.

EDIT: Nvm, I got a couple.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Scarlet

[Djeets]

Guys!!

Zun-sama finally had a child xD its a boy

Edited June 14, 2014 by Kakari Leap

[Balcerzak]

What am I doing wrong?

[Zak Something]