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~ Official Touhou Chat Thread~

Caster

By Caster
in Far from the Forest...

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19 members have voted

  1. 1. Best final boss theme?

    • Now Until the Moment You Die
      0
    • Swordsman of a Distant Star
      0
    • Complete Darkness
      0
    • Faint Dream ~ Inanimate Dream
      0
    • Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
      0
    • Septette of the Dead Princess
      2
    • Bloom Nobly, Cherry Blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life
      0
    • Gensokyo Millenium ~ History of the Moon
      0
    • Flight of the Bamboo Cutter ~ Lunatic Princess
      3
    • The Venerable Ancient Battlefield ~ Suwa Foughten Field
      5
    • Solar Sect of Mystic Wisdom ~ Nuclear Fusion
      3
    • Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind
      1
    • Great Fairy Wars ~ Fairy Wars
      1
    • Shoutoku Legend ~ True Administrator
      1
    • Kobito of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess
      3

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Kriemhild Newbie

Kriemhild

Posted
Posted

I'm eager to try Full Moon Pumpokolin to see why it's so feared.

I mean it looks like streaming.

Is it feared? It's a complete joke and one of the easiest Ex final spells imo.

Fun fact: I spent 100 failed attempts at Pompokolin by trying to stream it. After raging about it to ZM and Annie, I was reminded of Annie's approach to Woo and decided to try misdirectintg Pompokolin instead of streaming it. Then I captured it in my second try.

Oh come on, Banquet isn't that easy.

Well, it depends on the player's skill at multi-directional barrages. Some players are just really bad at those. However, most multi-directional attacks are either faster or denser than Banquet, so Banquet is still pretty pathetic when compared to other patterns of its kind.

And the idea that just because you can't do one spell means you can't do another is kind of stupid imo.

"Can't" is a pretty definite expression, so I agree with you in that it is stupid to make such claims. However, I do think that if there are spells with common attributes, it is not unreasonable to predict a player's performance in some spells based on their proficiency in other spells of similar nature. For example, if somebody has trouble with Banquet, I would anticipate that they would likely have trouble with Rainbow UFO too, since it's a multi-directional barrage as well, except the gaps are much tighter.

That being said, I honestly don't see how Banquet relates to Pompokolin, since they are completely different spells imo. So yeah, I agree that this specific instance was stupid..

That's why I'm curious.

People say it's hard, but I watch a replay and check and don't quite get what they're complaining about.

Most likely it's because they were using the wrong approach. Trying to stream makes it incredibly difficult and I never succeeded in capturing it that way (I got really close though!) in 100 attempts. Meanwhile, if you try to misdirect it instead, then it becomes a complete joke, at least by Ex spell standards imo.

Was the replay you watched a spell capture or an Ex attempt with resources being showered at Pompokolin? If it's the former, then it's no surprise that it looks easy because the player approached the spell correctly. If it's the latter, bear in mind that tackling a spell while spending resources on it is very often a poor representation of how difficult it is to actually capture the spell. Heck, most of my failed streaming attempts were were Mamizou was almost dead, and I'm certain that a single bomb would have easily dealt with the troublesome final phase.

I never thought Banquet was easy before I did it. And I still don't find it easy. I always break a border on it.

Yeah, because you're awful at multi-directional barrages :P

Though tbh, you don't really lose anything by breaking that border, so might as well go for that instead of taking the risk of trying to capture it if you lack confidence in it.

Speaking of which, how is your PCB Ex progress?

Edit: also, Wizard Fox Thoughts is easier regardless of who you are.

Wizard Fox Thoughts is pretty much a pure trick spell, and roadblockish one too, so I would really refrain from calling it "easy". It's a joke if you know how to do it, but a run-ender if you don't.

I agree that it's really easy if you know how to approach it, though I'm not sure I would agree with it being easier than Banquet...

I'll agree that Wizard Fox Thoughts is easier than Banquet, if only marginally so. IIRC ZUN even had a comment for Banquet elucidating exactly how everyone beats it.

The thing about Full Moon Pompoko Ring is that it is very much not exclusively streaming, and if you treat it as a streaming spell you're going to die a lot. There are also the counter-rotating rings of orbs, and on a lesser note the massive size of the circle means that the yellow "stream" of bullets also has an echo you have to account for from the frogs at the top of the screen. When you also take into account the claustrophobia factor, the steadily accelerating tempo of the spell, and the damaging effect the mere sight of those blasted frog danmaku will have on your psyche by that point, you are going to be in for a rough time. And to compound on all that even further I'm a Marisa player . . .

I can vouch for this, and I have 100 failed streaming attempts to verify it. I dunno about the claustrophobic factor, but it may have subconsciously affected my performance, dunno.

If you were using Marisa though, I can foresee it being really annoying. Because misdirecting means you're often not under Mamizou. Likewise, IceMyon had a hellish time with Pompokolin due to using Youmu, whose slashes do negligible damage at that distance while attempting to dodge the red orbs completely unfocused makes them much more dangerous.

I'll amend my previous statement then. I find Full Moon Pompokolin to be a joke if you're executing an effective approach (i.e. misdirection) AND you're using Reimu. I suspect Sanae wouldn't have much issues either, but I haven't tested that.

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ZemZem Newbie

ZemZem

Posted
Posted

But ZM is a meanie-bum who won't listen to you.

Good man. You and I both, ZM.

Actual Touhou stuff:

I should play Touhou again sometime. I want to figure out the weirdness that is PoDD.

Like, you literally have to fight yourself. I know this is Gensokyo, but come on.

I'm a meanie bum who gets annoyed easily, like how I am now. :P

c:

You should.

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Magical Glace Newbie

Magical Glace

Posted
Posted

Is it feared? It's a complete joke and one of the easiest Ex final spells imo.

Fun fact: I spent 100 failed attempts at Pompokolin by trying to stream it. After raging about it to ZM and Annie, I was reminded of Annie's approach to Woo and decided to try misdirectintg Pompokolin instead of streaming it. Then I captured it in my second try.

Well, it depends on the player's skill at multi-directional barrages. Some players are just really bad at those. However, most multi-directional attacks are either faster or denser than Banquet, so Banquet is still pretty pathetic when compared to other patterns of its kind.

"Can't" is a pretty definite expression, so I agree with you in that it is stupid to make such claims. However, I do think that if there are spells with common attributes, it is not unreasonable to predict a player's performance in some spells based on their proficiency in other spells of similar nature. For example, if somebody has trouble with Banquet, I would anticipate that they would likely have trouble with Rainbow UFO too, since it's a multi-directional barrage as well, except the gaps are much tighter.

That being said, I honestly don't see how Banquet relates to Pompokolin, since they are completely different spells imo. So yeah, I agree that this specific instance was stupid..

Most likely it's because they were using the wrong approach. Trying to stream makes it incredibly difficult and I never succeeded in capturing it that way (I got really close though!) in 100 attempts. Meanwhile, if you try to misdirect it instead, then it becomes a complete joke, at least by Ex spell standards imo.

Was the replay you watched a spell capture or an Ex attempt with resources being showered at Pompokolin? If it's the former, then it's no surprise that it looks easy because the player approached the spell correctly. If it's the latter, bear in mind that tackling a spell while spending resources on it is very often a poor representation of how difficult it is to actually capture the spell. Heck, most of my failed streaming attempts were were Mamizou was almost dead, and I'm certain that a single bomb would have easily dealt with the troublesome final phase.

Yeah, because you're awful at multi-directional barrages :P

Though tbh, you don't really lose anything by breaking that border, so might as well go for that instead of taking the risk of trying to capture it if you lack confidence in it.

Speaking of which, how is your PCB Ex progress?

Wizard Fox Thoughts is pretty much a pure trick spell, and roadblockish one too, so I would really refrain from calling it "easy". It's a joke if you know how to do it, but a run-ender if you don't.

I agree that it's really easy if you know how to approach it, though I'm not sure I would agree with it being easier than Banquet...

I can vouch for this, and I have 100 failed streaming attempts to verify it. I dunno about the claustrophobic factor, but it may have subconsciously affected my performance, dunno.

If you were using Marisa though, I can foresee it being really annoying. Because misdirecting means you're often not under Mamizou. Likewise, IceMyon had a hellish time with Pompokolin due to using Youmu, whose slashes do negligible damage at that distance while attempting to dodge the red orbs completely unfocused makes them much more dangerous.

I'll amend my previous statement then. I find Full Moon Pompokolin to be a joke if you're executing an effective approach (i.e. misdirection) AND you're using Reimu. I suspect Sanae wouldn't have much issues either, but I haven't tested that.

...Being misdirection just makes it easier, considering how well I pull off Woo. That makes it more comparable to School than Primate, then?

Wizard Fox thoughts is a trick spell, yes, but it's even easier than HMD or XFD with the trick, whereas Banquet can still be messed up when you know the approach.

Regarding PCB Ex, eh, I just went for it on a whim yesterday, I'm much more into MoF Ex. Snake Eats Frog is really fun~

The replay I watched was a capture. It involved what looked like a combination of streaming and misdirecting.

I remember you ranting about it to me, and Ice ranting about it to me, and... basically anyone I know who's done TD Ex ranting about it to me.

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Magical Glace Newbie

Magical Glace

Posted
Posted

[7:37:18 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Okay

[7:37:22 PM] Glaceon-Annie: I uh

[7:37:25 PM] Glaceon-Annie: kinda

[7:37:27 PM] Glaceon-Annie: sorta

[7:37:32 PM] Glaceon-Annie: used the fact

[7:37:45 PM] Glaceon-Annie: my scorefile had FMP unlocked already

[7:37:49 PM] Glaceon-Annie: And I uh

[7:37:52 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Tried it

[7:37:58 PM] Glaceon-Annie: And I uh

[7:38:01 PM] Glaceon-Annie: capped it

[7:38:04 PM] Glaceon-Annie: on my uh

[7:38:07 PM] Glaceon-Annie: first uh

[7:38:08 PM] Glaceon-Annie: try

[7:38:33 PM] Glaceon-Annie: That thing is easy

[7:38:39 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Actually

[7:38:45 PM] Glaceon-Annie: it's easier than Doll

[7:38:56 PM] Glaceon-Annie: THAT'S HOW EASY IT IS

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ZemZem Newbie

ZemZem

Posted
Posted
[6:40:11 PM] Glaceon-Annie: So no, it is not dreaded nor should it be

[6:40:22 PM] Glaceon-Annie: It's purely a trick spell

[6:40:28 PM] Vincent ZM: Which spell?

[6:40:35 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Full Moon Pompokolin

[6:40:39 PM] Vincent ZM: wow, gj

[6:40:41 PM] Frelia, nyu （　´・ω・`）: Full Metal Panic

[6:40:54 PM] Vincent ZM: ...Then what were people freaking out about?

[6:41:02 PM] Vincent ZM: I expected some trick.

[6:41:06 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Likely they were doing it wrong

[6:41:21 PM] Glaceon-Annie: I went in knowing it was misdirection

[6:41:22 PM] Vincent ZM: I've seen some videos and people have like...

[6:41:27 PM] Vincent ZM: 0/30 history

[6:41:49 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Very easy misdirection, at that

[6:41:59 PM] Glaceon-Annie: And I happen to be good at misdirection

[6:42:26 PM] Glaceon-Annie: If I say so myself

[6:42:49 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Likely, they were trying to stream.

[6:43:03 PM] Glaceon-Annie: And it backfired horribly

[6:43:14 PM] Vincent ZM: From approaches I've seen, they seemed to have streamed.

[6:43:21 PM] Glaceon-Annie: the orbs can admittedly get in the way

[6:44:01 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Overall though, it is much, much easier than Doll

[6:44:29 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Doll's yellow RNG shit is way more annoying than the red orb thingys in pompokolin

[6:44:57 PM] Glaceon-Annie: those red orbs are basically hermit of the land of the rising sun easy

[6:45:24 PM] Glaceon-Annie: As in, they do the exact same thing as that Miko card on Easy

[6:45:48 PM] Glaceon-Annie: And it's just that plus minor misdirection

[6:46:18 PM] Glaceon-Annie: Overall, it's a pretty pathetic card for an Ex Boss's final

[6:46:31 PM] Glaceon-Annie: if you know how its done

[6:46:55 PM] Glaceon-Annie: if you don't, then gg

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Magical Glace Newbie

Magical Glace

Posted
Posted

Haha, yeah, it's always Chen/Ran's sprite that kills me in Yukari/Ran's shikigami spell, rather than the actual danmaku. You get used to it quickly though.

Wow. I've heard she's one of the tougher ones too.

She did seem like a lot of her spells would be easy for you though.

The worst of her attacks is probably Spell 7 (Seventh Duel "Wild Deserted Island") which involve a dense wall of dogs and birds coming from one side, bouncing off the other, and repeating.

Spell one is streaming with a minor trick to it

Spell 2 is pure restreaming

Spell 3 is lol

Spell 4 is annoying.

Spell 5 is not as bad as four but it can be messed up

Spell 6 is a trick spell

I explained Spell 7 above

Spell 8 is likely to get bombed to deal with the frogs

Spell 9 is misdirection

Spell 10 is also misdirection

Mamizou is, in short, Misdirection and path following 101

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Junk Newbie

Junk

Posted
Posted (edited)

will watch now ZM.

started playing touhou again today (EOSD) put in 8 or so credits and got to stage 6 final boss card twice (first time on my third credit) worst thing is that i would have 1cc'ed if i hadn't ran into bullets since i forget the spellcard order.

Edited by commie scum
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