Radiant head Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Spoilers ahead obviously: So I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm still not fully convinced that Zelgius's character is all that consistent with his alter ego in the game. PoR built up Black Knight as Ike's personal, enigmatic boogeyman. He didn't really even need to have a revealed identity for that purpose. Since as far as you know he's just Ashnard's right hand man, you assume he's basically a bad guy. Fast forward to Radiant Dawn, and even though I know IS planned out PoR and RD together, it still feels like they tried to revise the character into something more antiheroic. Zelgius up until the reveal is thoroughly likeable, who tries to deal with the Senate's insane orders to the best of his ability, and tries to minimize conflict with the Laguz Alliance. As Black Knight, his motivations are kind of dubious, but he's still mostly a force for good on Micaiah's side. I know a lot of the awful stuff that Black Knight says in PoR (like torturing Mist) can be chalked up to playing in character and bluffing, but I still can't wrap my head around why he would kill Greil. I mean yeah I know the in-story explanation "I had to see if I surpassed my master," but you can't make us believe Zelgius is this honorable and compassionate general, and at the same time make him so driven to kill him just for some personal satisfaction. Does anyone have an interpretation of the character that makes sense out of all this, or do we just chalk this up to bad writing? Edited February 6, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Hiryu Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The sad part is that Zelgius has next to no characterization whatsoever. We're left guessing as to his true self, given that the Black Knight differs so much from Zelgius--although Ike does note that the two do share the same bearing, meaning there's at least something that connects the two.My personal interpretation is that he is just insanely loyal to Sephiran, which allows him to act as he needs to. Being able to fight his teacher is just icing on the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I don't think Zelgius meant to kill Greil. He seemed genuinely surprised at how easy it was, and he didn't know that Greil had crippled himself either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Remember that the BK told Ike about the Ragnell, which is the only way to not only beat the BK but also - plotwise anyway - the only thing other than Alondite that can harm Ashnard. So it seems like his main motivation genuinely was to have a duel against his old master, represented by Ike. It's very unlikely that he killed Greil on purpose and the fact that Ike could possibly be able to beat Ashnard with the Ragnell seems to be a non-issue to BK. Should be noted that BK and Ashnard have very little actual interaction during PoR anyway IIRC. They only have a somewhat brief conversation and the only time we actually get to see BK following Ashnard's orders is when they coincide with Lehran's ambitions [ie kidnapping Leanne for the Galdrar]. Most of his actions as BK during PoR are him doing his own thing whereas in RD he was probably told to protect Micaiah by Lehran so in the end reconciling Zelgius and BK is mainly a logistical issue of him switching around between being a Rider of Daein and a General of Begnion [which is solved by the rather lame explanation of teleport]. The true mystery of the Tellius saga imo is actually Ashnard. There's no explanation or hint at how or when he picked up his absolutely twisted ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah I never understood why Zelgius/BK had to kill Greil to see if he surpassed his master. Kinda contradictory to his character. BUT lets not forget at that point in time the Greil Mercenaries were enemies to Daein and the BK was Daein's most feared general and was probably under direct orders by Ashnard to kill Greil. In order to keep up the act so to speak he had to do it and he probably fought under the assumption that Greil hadn't severed his tendons. That's the only reason I can come up with the other being that Greil somehow had foresight of the events happening and plotted for it to happen as a way to force Ike to become stronger and become the hero he needed to become. I only say that because in the endgame of RD when Ike beats the BK he says Zelgius was "his last teacher" although I'm more inclined to think this was an unintended side affect and believe in the former. As much as Zelgius admired Greil I just don't see him intentionally killing him like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) BUT lets not forget at that point in time the Greil Mercenaries were enemies to Daein and the BK was Daein's most feared general and was probably under direct orders by Ashnard to kill Greil. Not according to RD's script... Sephiran: Sir Ike, I'm afraid your father's death was an unfortunate result of Zelgius's own personal agenda. Edited February 6, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Hiryu Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I'm not sure why some of you are thinking that Zelgius wouldn't have killed Greil when it was pretty obvious that it was his intention that night. Don't forget that while he was pursuing his original ambition (dueling Gawain), he was also to retrieve the medallion as per Ashnard's (and Lehran's) orders. The only regret we get to see him have in RD is that 'surpassing' his old teacher had been too easy, but he doesn't actually regret slaying Greil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I really didn't remember him saying about Mist...sounds horrible. But yeah, I really want t o believe he was bluffing. I think him killing Greil could've been more of a matter of course of battle, maybe it wasn't his whole intention- It just happens. I mean, how else would "defeat" go about? Cutting one or two arms off, and expect Greil to surrender at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ashnard's ideology is essentially Fascism. Daein is kind of obviously Nazi Germany. As for Zelgius, killing Greil was what was needed to fulfill Sephiran's orders, nothing more. Greil's death was irrelevant to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilluxe Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) - Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Probably so Ike doesn't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I really didn't remember him saying about Mist...sounds horrible. But yeah, I really want t o believe he was bluffing. I think him killing Greil could've been more of a matter of course of battle, maybe it wasn't his whole intention- It just happens. I mean, how else would "defeat" go about? Cutting one or two arms off, and expect Greil to surrender at some point? Ask Skimir. But I mean I'm not necessarily saying that Zelgius should have found a way to fight him without killing. I just think that killing him for the sake of testing his own strength just sounds like something a villain would do. Which you know is fine if we're supposed to hate Zelgius/BK, but then RD tries to have it both ways. Edited February 6, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I just think that killing him for the sake of testing his own strength just sounds like something a villain would do. That's assuming that Zelgius WANTED to kill Greil. I'm pretty sure he didn't. As for his other objective of retrieving the Fire Emblem... he knew that Mist had it, yet he didn't even try to go directly after Mist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 It's possible he didn't mean to, but there's nothing in his dialogue since that scene that remotely implies that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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