Gradivus. Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) battle saves allow breaking the game, map saves don't. I wasn't addressing your argument as a whole because I'm not intent in discussing it any further, but I was pointing out that your battle saves argument is false. I'm not intent in discussing any random instances of gamebreaking that you give me either. I'm pretty sure DLC content exists for money-soaking though. the devs intentionally give the players a gamebreaker to get money off of it. win-win situation. Edited February 15, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I guess we are going to rehash old arguments. Speaking only for myself: Casual Mode does not hurt my enjoyment of Classic Mode; rather, the inclusion of what I take to be a bastardized version of the game hurts the integrity of the game, and I do worry that new players intimidated by Classic miss out on the definitive way to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 It's not going anywhere. But I think Gradivus is getting a tad invested in this... Rather than asking it to be removed.... when you don't even play it... can't you settle with incentive-izing Classic? Just make route splits/Gaidens/True endings a la FE6/whatever exclusive to Classic. Done. Arena abuse in the GBA FE was looked down upon. How does it affect your experience if they did? I just ruined everyone's day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Giving people an incentive to play Classic Mode is cool. I just ruined everyone's day Real FE players don't arena abuse, they RNG abuse JEEZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 No capped Skl on Wolt 0/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Giving people an incentive to play Classic Mode is cool. Real FE players don't arena abuse, they RNG abuse JEEZ. I DID BOTH 8D How else would I have a Shanna AND Wolt with capped Str? Edit: Bows are accurate enough in FE6 that my waifu can hit things just fine Edited February 15, 2015 by Glaceon Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I guess we are going to rehash old arguments. Speaking only for myself: Casual Mode does not hurt my enjoyment of Classic Mode; rather, the inclusion of what I take to be a bastardized version of the game hurts the integrity of the game, and I do worry that new players intimidated by Classic miss out on the definitive way to play. Well yes, like I said. What if they like the bastardized version of the game? For relaxation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Well yes, like I said. What if they like the bastardized version of the game? For relaxation? Even on Casual I honestly don't think FE is a good game to relax from Animal Crossing and similar games are better for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I guess we are going to rehash old arguments. Speaking only for myself: Casual Mode does not hurt my enjoyment of Classic Mode; rather, the inclusion of what I take to be a bastardized version of the game hurts the integrity of the game, and I do worry that new players intimidated by Classic miss out on the definitive way to play. Think about this for a second: It literally dampens your enjoyment of something because other people do it differently than you do. You can't stand to see choice. "integrity of the game?" What even? How more elitist can you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Think about this for a second: It literally dampens your enjoyment of something because other people do it differently than you do. You can't stand to see choice. "integrity of the game?" What even? How more elitist can you get? Please don't call me elitist because you did not understand my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 FE12 came out with it. No one payed attention to it. No one cared that some people used it. FE13 came out with it. And then people cared. This is obviously because FE12 didn't leave Japan. Just because these arguments are getting really circular and annoying, I want to ask to be sure: are the people opposed to Casual mode opposed to it completely, or would it be okay under certain conditions such as 1) having incentives to play Classic such as more characters, chapters, etc., or 2) restricting it to the easiest game difficulty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 @Red: Myself, I would not. Imagine an otherwise brilliant platformer had a series of poorly designed, shallow tutorial levels. They're optional. I still wouldn't want them in the game because I'd rather the game be more tightly designed than pander to certain players. It's a choice between accessibility and polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Please don't call me elitist because you did not understand my position. Elitist is a position just so you know. Wanting everything to be your way and looking down on people who don't do that IS elitist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Elitism is an attitude, not a position. Some people in this thread, for example, are elitist and pro-Casual. I do not look down on anyone who plays Casual or wants Casual in future Fire Emblem installments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Elitism is an attitude, not a position. Some people in this thread, for example, are elitist and pro-Casual. I do not look down on anyone who plays Casual or wants Casual in future Fire Emblem installments. Yeah, uh huh I guess we are going to rehash old arguments. Speaking only for myself: Casual Mode does not hurt my enjoyment of Classic Mode; rather, the inclusion of what I take to be a bastardized version of the game hurts the integrity of the game, and I do worry that new players intimidated by Classic miss out on the definitive way to play. @Red: Myself, I would not. Imagine an otherwise brilliant platformer had a series of poorly designed, shallow tutorial levels. They're optional. I still wouldn't want them in the game because I'd rather the game be more tightly designed than pander to certain players. It's a choice between accessibility and polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Neither of those posts feature me looking down on anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over. Here's the thing. 1. Casual is entirely optional from the get go so if you don't want to play it you don't have to even if you want to dive right into Lunatic or Hard. 2. Its a single player game so who gives a shit if someone else is playing casual and someone else is playing classic it doesn't affect the other person in any way. (Althogh perma death to include the avatar/lord probably should be disabled in streetpass battles across the board I mean they do call it parley after all and its about as multiplayer as FE gets) Parley: a conference between opposing sides in a dispute, especially a discussion of terms for an armistice. 3. Part of the reason Awakening sold so well and saved FE as a franchise was because it is more accessible. Remember folks choosing casual and classic came way before the marriage mechanics were even introduced in the game. So if you want a ball busting harder than hell FE with no casual option (keyword there being option) then say goodbye to most of the people who bought Awakening and we are back to square one with out buttholes so tight that we can turn coal into diamonds and hoping the franchise isn't canceled. 4. Awakening can still be a really hard game (braces for elitism flamethrower) while I don't like the mode Lunatic + (and Lunatic for that matter) is damn brutal and this is coming from someone who played FE7 and RD before Awakening. The random skills, counter +, luna +, first five chapters, and reinforcements that move on the same turn (looking at you suicide counter wyverns) just make you want to pull your hair out. And if you're like most hardcore FE fans you're going to want to play classic on this mode and keep everyone alive....after 9000 soft resets later. Even with grinding its a challenge and you better be willing to grind until you're fingers fall off (yes I know there are gods out there that play Lunatic + no grind but lets face it thats not the vast majority even among FE fans). 5. As far as I can tell having both modes doesn't really detract from the polish of the game its still presented extremely well, replayability is through the roof (in part due to there being two modes), support library is awesome, DLC actually has some effort put into in things like Apotheosis and Future Past. It just seems to me this is all part of the business you're NEVER going to satisfy everyone. Hell not even Sakurai could do it with Smash... Edited February 16, 2015 by LordTaco42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Honestly, I'd be very surprised if casual mode didn't return. I've heard people say that FE's permadeath has turned them away from the series, so a casual mode can bring those fans in. It's definitely one thing that helped Awakening. I personally feel that permadeath/classic is the only proper way to play FE, but I'm not going to scold people if they want a casual mode with no permadeath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topazd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) @RFoF Of course I would like to see Casual removed, but that's extremely unlikely to happen. Taking that into account, I could settle (not that IS would ask my opinion to begin with) with the alternative involving incentives to play Classic. I'm just strongly opposed against what some have dubbed the 'Michael Bay effect' - generalizing a concept and stripping down its features that make it unique in order to make it more accessible. Yes, in this case the stripped-down version is optional, but the influx of new players alongside it leads to a continuously increasing number of people playing it without ever experiencing what FE is truly about. Perhaps it is not my place to judge, but I do feel this design choice has been detrimental to preserving FE's identity. Edited February 16, 2015 by Topazd255 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Well yes, like I said. What if they like the bastardized version of the game? For relaxation? You haven't answered Refa's point about whether they should remove limited use items, or mine about someone wanting to play pacifist without killing anyone at all. What if someone wants to play that? Should they do such a thing? Where is the line drawn on what we can't do to accomodate people when changing design philosophy? I'd like to be able to choose whether I counterattack whilst equipped with a weapon, but I don't actually want FE to implement that feature beacuse I think it's antithetical to the series. Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 You are all acting as if permadeath is the only thing keeping Fire Emblem from being Generic sRPG No.384 when it really isn't. Adding Classic Mode does nothing but make the series more accessible to new players. Unless you enjoy being apart of 'the hardcore special FE club' you have no reason to complain. Disliking Casual Mode because it's 'change' and 'change is scary' is equally as ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I'm really getting rather tired of people coming into this thread who clearly haven't read through the points or counterarguments that address their statements. Not that I expect you to do so, but it's tiring to have to repeat oneself so much. Adding Classic Mode does nothing but make the series more accessible to new players. Unless you enjoy being apart of 'the hardcore special FE club' you have no reason to complain. I am not against accessability. I'm simply of the opinion that you can make the game very much accessible without Casual Mode, because I firmly believe that permadeath existing in FE is a core design trait and I explained it quite thoroughly here. There are lots more things that can make FE as a series more accessible than removing permadeath. fepluses' original argument was somewhat overly provocative, but he has a point; Where do we draw the line? Like, what can we change and what can't we change? Is everything up for being changed? I earlier proposed a rewind/rollback feature that would go back a move if you wanted to take it back, and personally I think that's essentially a more convenient battle save, and would not mind such a thing being present on some kind of new Casual Mode or whatnot. But would you object to it? Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Maybe there are some people who want to relax and/or take a break while playing Fire Emblem without having to think too much and risk losing a favorite unit. Not everyone wants to play games at 100% all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Okay? So what's wrong with my idea, since it achieves effectively the same thing without removing the fact that a character is actually dead if they die? What about the automatic battle save at the start of every turn idea, going back 10 turns? What about playing on a lower difficulty setting? Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 maybe the very possibility of someone dying is off-putting to some people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.