Titania is the best in the game.

[Reikken]

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not talking about stat averages. I'm talking about average total worth after infinitely many play-throughs. "Titania > Oscar", for example, means that, while Oscar may be better sometimes, overall, Titania's worth is higher.

[Florete]

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not talking about stat averages. I'm talking about average total worth after infinitely many play-throughs. "Titania > Oscar", for example, means that, while Oscar may be better sometimes, overall, Titania's worth is higher.

In general, I can agree with that. It just isn't how I view the game.

[Nintenlord]

It doesn't have to be proven pre se, but it must be provable. I can say "2+2=4" without bothering to prove it. The thing is, it is 100% provable, and is therefore a fact.

*Nintenlord enters angry mathematician mode*

Pure math has absolutely nothing to do with facts, it's all truths. Facts =/= truths. Truths are 100% correct after they have been proven, while facts can still be wrong.

Maybe you misunderstood me: Not everyone trusts science. I know it might be considered the same thing, but I feel there is a difference here. Science has proven some facts to be true, yet there are things that are only hypothesized.

*Nintenlord enters angry scientist mode*

Science isn't a collection of facts, it's a collection of methods. Disagreeing/not trusting the facts that scientists present =/= disagreeing with/not trusting the science.

[CGV]

I think nintenlord wins this one

[Florete]

Tell me, how can a fact be wrong?

[StalkerPizza]

Fixed Mode.

Keiran's 20/1 stats:

HP 39

Str 18

Mag 4

Skill 18

Sp 18

Lck 10

Def 15

Res 6

Titania's ?/2

HP 34

Str 12

Skill 13

Sp 14

Lck 12

Def 11

Res 7

The best you say?

[Swordsalmon]

Fixed Mode.

Keiran's 20/1 stats:

HP 39

Str 18

Mag 4

Skill 18

Sp 18

Lck 10

Def 15

Res 6

Titania's ?/2

HP 34

Str 12

Skill 13

Sp 14

Lck 12

Def 11

Res 7

The best you say?

We're not doing Fixed, it's Average stats. Also, Titania will be at level 10 by the time Kieran promotes, so here's her actual stats.

HP: 40

Str: 16

Skill: 18

Sp: 19

Lck: 15

Def: 15

Res: 11

Oh, and she can use Silver Axes, while Kieran can't for another couple levels.

[StalkerPizza]

We're not doing Fixed, it's Average stats. Also, Titania will be at level 10 by the time Kieran promotes, so here's her actual stats.

HP: 40

Str: 16

Skill: 18

Sp: 19

Lck: 15

Def: 15

Res: 11

Oh, and she can use Silver Axes, while Kieran can't for another couple levels.

But then you can't compare them because their levels are too far apart

Besides, her 20 stats would lose to his 20/20.

Edited September 27, 2008 by StalkerPizza

[Reikken]

But then you can't compare them because their levels are too far apart

Besides, her 20 stats would lose to his 20/20.

You would compare stats after giving Kieran ~35 kills and Titania ~7 and call that fair?

Edited September 27, 2008 by Reikken

[Defeatist Elitist]

But then you can't compare them because their levels are too far apart

Besides, her 20 stats would lose to his 20/20.

Have you read the thread? Honest question. That's the whole point, no matter how their stats could differ at 20/20, Titania will ALWAYS HAVE A LEVEL LEAD. :P

Edited September 28, 2008 by ZXValaRevan

[Florete]

Am I the only one who likes to keep my planned team generally around the same level? If I am, what I have to say would mean nothing.

[Ϲharlie]

No, I usually try to keep my characters' levels relatively even. Or rather, I should say I try to keep my unpromoted characters evenly leveled.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Am I the only one who likes to keep my planned team generally around the same level? If I am, what I have to say would mean nothing.

Well, my team usually ends up around the same level, because I usually evenly distribute the kills, BUT, if a character comes 20 levels ahead of the time, and I want to use them A)I'm not going to just sit them out until everyone else catches up, and B)I should still evenly distribute kills.

It just makes sense. Why would you leave a member of your team off, being totally useless for half the game?

[Florete]

Well, my team usually ends up around the same level, because I usually evenly distribute the kills, BUT, if a character comes 20 levels ahead of the time, and I want to use them A)I'm not going to just sit them out until everyone else catches up, and B)I should still evenly distribute kills.

It just makes sense. Why would you leave a member of your team off, being totally useless for half the game?

Not totally useless, just back a bit. If I decided one game to use Titania, I wouldn't have her do very much, but she wouldn't just be benched until everyone else promoted. She'd likely be around levels 3-4 when everyone else promoted. I think it makes more sense that way. Why have one overpowered unit when the rest of your team could better use the kills?

[Nintenlord]

Tell me, how can a fact be wrong?

The evidence it is based on is later proved wrong or inadequate. Like with the speed of gravity. Newton based he's gravitation on our solar system, so the speed which gravity goes through space didn't effect his calculations. Einsteins gravity, however, was based on relativity, so he was able to predict that gravity travels at the speed of light. Einstein was later proved correct.

[Florete]

The evidence it is based on is later proved wrong or inadequate. Like with the speed of gravity. Newton based he's gravitation on our solar system, so the speed which gravity goes through space didn't effect his calculations. Einsteins gravity, however, was based on relativity, so he was able to predict that gravity travels at the speed of light. Einstein was later proved correct.

Then it's a theory, not a hard fact. A fact must be 100% provable to be fact.

[_____]

Then it's a theory, not a hard fact. A fact must be 100% provable to be fact.

Newton's was a fact at the time when it was discovered. A fact is a fact if you can support it and it can't be proven otherwise. And don't say anything about PE or RNG in the response to this statement. >.>

Edited September 28, 2008 by Leon

[Florete]

Newton's was a fact at the time when it was discovered. A fact is a fact if you can support it and it can't be proven otherwise. And don't say anything about PE or RNG in the response to this statement. >.>

It happens. Sorry to say, but it does.

And Newton's theory is hardly related to Titania.

[Nintenlord]

Then it's a theory, not a hard fact. A fact must be 100% provable to be fact.

So just because I can't 100% prove that the paper in front of is made from wood, it's not true? You can't prove it 100% because there is always a minor change of conspiracy, pre-birth brain modification and mind control possibility. And don't say 99.999999999999999999999999% is as good as 100%, because it isn't.

[Florete]

So just because I can't 100% prove that the paper in front of is made from wood, it's not true? You can't prove it 100% because there is always a minor change of conspiracy, pre-birth brain modification and mind control possibility. And don't say 99.999999999999999999999999% is as good as 100%, because it isn't.

I think you're over-analyzing this (And more than I already was).

[Defeatist Elitist]

I think you're over-analyzing this (And more than I already was).

But this is our whole point. A fact doesn't have to be 100% proveable, since nothing is. It just has to have a fair bit of evidence and backup, and more than anything else presented.

[Florete]

But this is our whole point. A fact doesn't have to be 100% proveable, since nothing is. It just has to have a fair bit of evidence and backup, and more than anything else presented.

Perhaps, though there are things 100% provable. But this isn't the case here. There's more going against Titania being the best than there is going against a piece of paper being made of wood.

[Reikken]

"though there are things 100% provable"

only mathematics

Once you venture outside of pure numbers, I don't think anything is.

"There's more going against Titania being the best than there is going against a piece of paper being made of wood."

...and?

[sandmanccl]

Hey guys, I believe I brought up the definition of the word "fact" in another thread.

I'll even do it again for your benefit here:

According to Dictionary.com,

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

According to definition #1, the best character is the one with the most kills on your file after you finish any given playthrough. That may or may not be Titania.

According to definition #2, Titania may as a fact be garbage because numbers drawn at random determine whether or not you gained a given stat you need to raise in order to be a valuable unit.

According to #3, your personal experience and observation is the only thing backing it "as a fact" which again wildly differs from person to person.

According to #4, for the purposes of Fire Emblem, the only fact is what actually happens after playing the game rather than speculation. You might have 3 units promoted by level 18. It's been done and is proven as a factual possibility. I bet those people don't really care for Titania because she's an EXP sponge for a long time.

#5 is a legal definition and is therefore not really important nor applicable to the discussion at hand.

Edited October 1, 2008 by sandmanccl

[Deity]

I know Im a little late here, but the thread is open, so. Titania is only good because she is just like Marcus, levelled up at the start of the game. We all know she is there for those newbies who have trouble passing each map. Let me tell ya, she is good, but I really dont use her much, not even on hard mode. She is just an exp stealer. ^^