Titania is the best in the game.

[Reikken]

I just plain do not understand how people ignore the fact that there's multiple ways of playing the game successfully.

No one has been doing that that I can tell. At least since your last post.

but I just don't think there can be a "best."

With "best" meaning character most likely to be the best or character on average the best, then there most definitely is a best.

With "best" meaning character who is the best every single time without exception, then no, there is no best.

[Swordsalmon]

And we all know that team doesn't exist. If Titania could be that one-woman team, she would be the best character. She isn't. There is no "best" character IMO. Titania's the best in your opinion (This is a general question to everyone)? Okay, fine.

Titania is a one-woman team. Epic stats, averages, and weapons. She's near perfect.

[Florete]

Titania is a one-woman team. Epic stats, averages, and weapons. She's near perfect.

Tell that to Ashnard... And her averages are NOT epic. All the other paladins, save maybe Geoffrey, beat her there.

[sandmanccl]

I dunno why everyone hates on Geoffrey so much. Go look at his stats, compare averages. He's only slightly behind other people at equivalent level in strength and speed, but has the best defense in the party. He's also easier to get to max level because of Paragon (or so I find.)

Seriously, if you compare the average final stats of all the paladins, they are so nearly identical that it's not funny.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Fact: My level 14 wizard/level 6 fighter was capable of inflicting 40 damage per hit with his +4 greatsword. Another fact is that he also could do just 8.

I've seen people tell me that Oscar is all sorts of awesome in Path of Radiance, but you know what? If he was so amazing, he wouldn't have a measly 8 strength, speed, and defense at level 16.

You guys can tell me that Titania is "the best" all you want but it rarely plays out that way. I'd rather have Boyd get the experience that Titania is getting because I find he's a better unit in general.

I just plain do not understand how people ignore the fact that there's multiple ways of playing the game successfully. It's absurd. Offer a suggestion, but don't tell people they are wrong if they are clearly not.

Fact: Multiclassing in DnD is usually retarded. :P Joking. Ish.

See, the way things work is this. We say someone is the best, and they are. Because we give "best" a definition. Best is generally a pretty vague term. In a debate for FE9, best automatically means "Most effective, on average at allowing the team to finish the game most easily and quickly". I have explained why we believe this makes them best in the game. Now, any character could get no stat ups, or full stat ups, but saying that a character is good or bad because they have a remote possibility of being awful or amazing based on RNG isn't very logical. RNG might affect your characters, but the things is, probabilities are still Math. People base lots of things off probabilities. And Titania has a very high probability of being best in the game. Higher than anyone else. That means, she has the highest probability to be best in the game. Therefore, she is best overall.

Also, Titania is less likely to get RNG screwed, and it will affect her overall less, because half of her epicness is due to starting really strong.

And in regards to different play styles and multiple ways to play the game correctly. There are. But that doesn't change how good a character is. The more strategy you need to use, the worse the characters you are using are.

[Swordsalmon]

Tell that to Ashnard... And her averages are NOT epic. All the other paladins, save maybe Geoffrey, beat her there.

Ashnard is only one boss. Also, must I bring out her Chapter 18 averages again. Titania's only true flaw is occasionally unreliable supports, but her epic weapon levels and stats that eclispe everyone's for a long time makes up for more of it. She's a slightly less beautiful Seth. And just to show how good she is, let's do a little comparison between the other Paladins.

Oscar doesn't surpass her base stats until level 17, and is still losing in Resistance.

Kieran doesn't surpass her base stats until level 18, and still loses in Luck and Resistance.

Astrid doesn't surpass her base stats until level 17, still loses in HP, Defense, and Luck.

Makalov doesn't surpass her base stats until level 18, still loses in Skill, Resistance, and Luck.

Geoffrey fails.

That's just comparing to Titania's base stats. Supports, weapons, and level-ups considered, and Titania destroys all of them for quite a long time.

I dunno why everyone hates on Geoffrey so much. Go look at his stats, compare averages. He's only slightly behind other people at equivalent level in strength and speed, but has the best defense in the party. He's also easier to get to max level because of Paragon (or so I find.)

Seriously, if you compare the average final stats of all the paladins, they are so nearly identical that it's not funny.

All the other characters have great supports, Axes, and have time to be useful. Geoffrey joins far too late, even with Elite.

[Florete]

Fact: Multiclassing in DnD is usually retarded. :P Joking. Ish.

See, the way things work is this. We say someone is the best, and they are. Because we give "best" a definition. Best is generally a pretty vague term. In a debate for FE9, best automatically means "Most effective, on average at allowing the team to finish the game most easily and quickly". I have explained why we believe this makes them best in the game. Now, any character could get no stat ups, or full stat ups, but saying that a character is good or bad because they have a remote possibility of being awful or amazing based on RNG isn't very logical. RNG might affect your characters, but the things is, probabilities are still Math. People base lots of things off probabilities. And Titania has a very high probability of being best in the game. Higher than anyone else. That means, she has the highest probability to be best in the game. Therefore, she is best overall.

Also, Titania is less likely to get RNG screwed, and it will affect her overall less, because half of her epicness is due to starting really strong.

And in regards to different play styles and multiple ways to play the game correctly. There are. But that doesn't change how good a character is. The more strategy you need to use, the worse the characters you are using are.

Then we just have different views of the game. No one person's way of viewing it is correct, and no one's is wrong. Just because I say I don't believe Titania to be the best in the game doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different. On account of not wanting to spout out the same things a fourth time, I end it here.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Then we just have different views of the game. No one person's way of viewing it is correct, and no one's is wrong. Just because I say I don't believe Titania to be the best in the game doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different. On account of not wanting to spout out the same things a fourth time, I end it here.

I'll post this again:

Just as something I'm going to say. On many other FE forums, a LOT of people have spent a LOT of time trying to form and create the best and most effective Fire Emblem Debating structure. All these things have been though over by an incredible number of people, and fully fleshed out. When we debate, we actually do it for fun. Because we enjoy it. When someone makes a statement, we try to correct it. There where statements of characters being of X goodness. Once someone sees that, they might disagree. They say why. It's the way we operate.

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of us are what could be called "experts". Tino and SS are amazing debaters. You may be different, but if you're going to post in a debate, please remember that some of the people here have devoted far more time and thought to this then you would believe.

[Florete]

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of us are what could be called "experts". Tino and SS are amazing debaters. You may be different, but if you're going to post in a debate, please remember that some of the people here have devoted far more time and thought to this then you would believe.

I don't care if they're "amazing" debaters. We aren't a debate forum, and a lot of the regulars don't want us to be, I know because I've spoken with them about it. No offense, but it's also my honest opinion that people should be playing the game more than they argue about it...

Personally, I consider myself an expert at theses games. Tino and SS just laughed after reading that. I may not be an "expert" in their way of viewing things, and I won't be proving anything to them, but I've been playing this series for about 5-6 years and I know I've become pretty damned good at it.

[Reikken]

Just because I say I don't believe Titania to be the best in the game doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different.

Depending on what you mean by "best", it could indeed make you wrong.

I'm not saying that you are, just that it's a possibility.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I don't care if they're "amazing" debaters. We aren't a debate forum, and a lot of the regulars don't want us to be, I know because I've spoken with them about it. No offense, but it's also my honest opinion that people should be playing the game more than they argue about it...

Personally, I consider myself an expert at theses games. Tino and SS just laughed after reading that. I may not be an "expert" in their way of viewing things, and I won't be proving anything to them, but I've been playing this series for about 5-6 years and I know I've become pretty damned good at it.

But the thing is, you're basically saying that anyone should be forced to conform with how you think. Playing the game and arguing about it are two totally different things. I play very differently than I argue. When we debate, we're not trying to tell anybody what they're supposed to play like. We're just having fun, and trying to get a perfect understanding of the game. If other people don't want to, then fine, but at least let us do what we enjoy.

You are probably an expert of strategy.

[Florete]

But the thing is, you're basically saying that anyone should be forced to conform with how you think. Playing the game and arguing about it are two totally different things. I play very differently than I argue. When we debate, we're not trying to tell anybody what they're supposed to play like. We're just having fun, and trying to get a perfect understanding of the game. If other people don't want to, then fine, but at least let us do what we enjoy.

I'm saying anyone should be able to accept that I think differently. That entire paragraph is the reason I hate debates. Why the hell do you play it one way and argue another? Anyone should be able to view these games however they feel without having someone tell them that they're views are wrong, like religion.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I'm saying anyone should be able to accept that I think differently. That entire paragraph is the reason I hate debates. Why the hell do you play it one way and argue another? Anyone should be able to view these games however they feel without having someone tell them that they're views are wrong, like religion.

You mentioned Religion. I will expand on this. I treat this very much the same way. I don't really mind if someone has their own religious beliefs. But if they go out in public and say "God Created Adam and Eve, and all humans came from them", or "Evolution is false", or anything like that, I will not just accept them being able to say it. I will argue and tell them why they are wrong. They can still believe it. Same thing here. Except here, I'm just saying why one character is better than another. I play differently, because, well, it would be boring if I used all the same and best characters every time I played, right? But just because I don't always use certain characters, or don't like them, doesn't change them being amazing.

[Florete]

You mentioned Religion. I will expand on this. I treat this very much the same way. I don't really mind if someone has their own religious beliefs. But if they go out in public and say "God Created Adam and Eve, and all humans came from them", or "Evolution is false", or anything like that, I will not just accept them being able to say it. I will argue and tell them why they are wrong. They can still believe it. Same thing here. Except here, I'm just saying why one character is better than another. I play differently, because, well, it would be boring if I used all the same and best characters every time I played, right? But just because I don't always use certain characters, or don't like them, doesn't change them being amazing.

You can do all that, and that's fine, but someone's opinion on religion isn't really wrong at all just because you have a different belief. The same applies to Fire Emblem. Just because some people may think one thing about a character, it doesn't mean they're wrong if other people happen to think otherwise.

[Defeatist Elitist]

You can do all that, and that's fine, but someone's opinion on religion isn't really wrong at all just because you have a different belief. The same applies to Fire Emblem. Just because some people may think one thing about a character, it doesn't mean they're wrong if other people happen to think otherwise.

No, if someone believes that a Divine Entity created two humans (and the world) 6000 years ago, from which all humanity is descended, they are fucking well wrong. Doesn't matter if it's their belief. THEY. ARE. WRONG. I can prove it. W. R. O. N. G.

[Tino]

You can do all that, and that's fine, but someone's opinion on religion isn't really wrong at all just because you have a different belief. The same applies to Fire Emblem. Just because some people may think one thing about a character, it doesn't mean they're wrong if other people happen to think otherwise.

I won't talk about the religion thing. I don't want to insult somebody on his/her religion unintentionally.

So if I say that Lucia > Oscar and I can't prove it, then I'm correct? Hell no, I'm not.

[Zanarkin]

I have missed a lot since school started. Anyone mind explaining all this to me?

[Florete]

No, if someone believes that a Divine Entity created two humans (and the world) 6000 years ago, from which all humanity is descended, they are fucking well wrong. Doesn't matter if it's their belief. THEY. ARE. WRONG. I can prove it. W. R. O. N. G.

You can't prove it wrong because you weren't there. Neither can anyone prove it right.

So if I say that Lucia > Oscar and I can't prove it, then I'm correct? Hell no, I'm not.

You're not correct, but if it's your way of thinking and you have your reasons, you aren't exactly wrong either. It's subjective, opinion, one's own way of viewing things.

[Swordsalmon]

You can't prove it wrong because you weren't there. Neither can anyone prove it right.

You're not correct, but if it's your way of thinking and you have your reasons, you aren't exactly wrong either. It's subjective, opinion, one's own way of viewing things.

Carbon dating. -_-

No, as if Tino said Lucia>Oscar, he'd have to give logical reasons why. Until he can, Oscar>Lucia.

[Tino]

You can't prove it wrong because you weren't there. Neither can anyone prove it right.

Another example then. A square has the shape of a square. This can obviously be proven to be true. However, I believe that a square has the shape of a triangle. Even though I believe it is not true that a square = a triangle, it's undebiably true that a square =/= a triangle, but rather that a square = a square.

You're not correct, but if it's your way of thinking and you have your reasons, you aren't exactly wrong either. It's subjective, opinion, one's own way of viewing things.

Someone has proven that Oscar > Lucia. Hell, many, many people have proven that Oscar > Lucia. If I can't provide good arguments as to why Lucia would be superior to Oscar, then I'm obviously not correct, even though I'm wrong. This is pretty much the same as the square/triangle example I provided.

[Florete]

Carbon dating. -_-

No, as if Tino said Lucia>Oscar, he'd have to give logical reasons why. Until he can, Oscar>Lucia.

No one can prove the existence or non-existence of a supreme being...

Another example then. A square has the shape of a square. This can obviously be proven to be true. However, I believe that a square has the shape of a triangle. Even though I believe it is not true that a square = a triangle, it's undebiably true that a square =/= a triangle, but rather that a square = a square.

Someone has proven that Oscar > Lucia. Hell, many, many people have proven that Oscar > Lucia. If I can't provide good arguments as to why Lucia would be superior to Oscar, then I'm obviously not correct, even though I'm wrong. This is pretty much the same as the square/triangle example I provided.

I don't get the point of the square thing.

I fully agree that Oscar>Lucia, very much so, but there's someone out there who thinks Lucia>Oscar. Now, we can throw all the numbers and such at them, but that doesn't mean they're likely to change their opinion on what they've seen with their own eyes, and we must learn to accept that. One's opinion isn't correct, and neither is it incorrect.

[Tino]

I don't get the point of the square thing.

I fully agree that Oscar>Lucia, very much so, but there's someone out there who thinks Lucia>Oscar. Now, we can throw all the numbers and such at them, but that doesn't mean they're likely to change their opinion on what they've seen with their own eyes, and we must learn to accept that. One's opinion isn't correct, and neither is it incorrect.

A square is a square and a triangle is a triangle. This is of course true. Now, there might be someone who believes that a square is a triangle. That person is obviously wrong, although he can continue to believe what he wants.

I also like Lucia more than Oscar because she's a swordmaster, which is a pretty sexy class in my opinion, and she's pretty cute at that, too. However, does this mean that Lucia > Oscar because it's been proven that Oscar is better? Indeed, it does not.

[Florete]

A square is a square and a triangle is a triangle. This is of course true. Now, there might be someone who believes that a square is a triangle. That person is obviously wrong, although he can continue to believe what he wants.

I also like Lucia more than Oscar because she's a swordmaster, which is a pretty sexy class in my opinion, and she's pretty cute at that, too. However, does this mean that Lucia > Oscar because it's been proven that Oscar is better? Indeed, it does not.

A square being a square and a triangle being a triangle are facts and can be proven 100% correct, as there is no way it can be any different, no matter the circumstance.

By debating standards, yours and my own opinion, Oscar>Lucia. This doesn't mean it will always be so. Lucia isn't going to worse than Oscar no matter the circumstance, therefore, it isn't a hard fact, just a majority opinion. That is the point of polls.

[Reikken]

I fully agree that Oscar>Lucia, very much so, but there's someone out there who thinks Lucia>Oscar. Now, we can throw all the numbers and such at them, but that doesn't mean they're likely to change their opinion on what they've seen with their own eyes, and we must learn to accept that. One's opinion isn't correct, and neither is it incorrect.

The truth doesn't care about people's opinions. One of the two parties is wrong.

[Guest WolvenWarrioress]

Titania's not a Jeigan, she's an Oifaye.